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Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
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jnewyouth Offline
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Post: #1
Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
Gunner sat the first part of the season until the players and fans revolted. He's now playing and we haven't scored a touchdown in the last 96 minutes.

I agree that Tubs should be fired, but was he right about Kiel?
 
11-06-2016 07:42 AM
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pat5775 Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
Granted, Kiel is struggling. But he's pretty much set up for failure. The playcalling is utterly atrocious. Can't help but wonder if Taylor and TT are still f******g with Kiel now that he's on the field. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
11-06-2016 07:47 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
Good question. I'd still argue that with the offensive struggles and an experienced senior on the bench that switch should have been made much sooner. I always felt the offensive problems were much deeper than QB and the last 6 quarters has proven that.
 
11-06-2016 07:50 AM
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doss2 Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
He is getting little help.

That said this year is lost. We will not beat @UCF, Memphis or @Tulsa, so we might as well get next years QB's field time.
 
11-06-2016 07:54 AM
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rosewater Online
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
He is the best qb. The last two teams were quality opponents. Kiel gets the ball off and gives us a chance. Moore/Trail would be racking up the sacks and interceptions.
 
11-06-2016 07:59 AM
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rath v2.0 Online
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
First, the QB merry go round. Then, this offense is lame. Bad high school level lame. The OL this staff recruited is awful, too.

Now our clown HC is lamenting the fact that the WRs (he signed) are small and slow. He's a complete nut bag.
 
11-06-2016 08:06 AM
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Former Lurker Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
You can still see flashes of Gunner's immense talent, but he has not been properly developed by this staff; if anything, he's regressed.
 
11-06-2016 09:08 AM
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bearcatjim Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
(11-06-2016 09:08 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  You can still see flashes of Gunner's immense talent, but he has not been properly developed by this staff; if anything, he's regressed.

Agree. He looked bad yesterday. Part of that is his supporting cast and lack of a good scheme. Part of it is him underthrowing and throwing ducks.
 
11-06-2016 09:16 AM
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Dannyboy Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
The OC is terrible and the team has quit. It's not just one thing or one player.
 
11-06-2016 09:57 AM
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dsquare Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
I have to be honest he missed quite a few wide open wr's. The evidence i've seen in his 3 games is consistent with what the coaches have said in his grasping a new offense. That said, we lost a guy in Shaq Washington who had his number retired in large part because he grasped early that he could help out the qb and himself by coming back to get balls. The wr's now are not so adept at doing this particularly against an aggressive defense like a byu or temple.
 
11-06-2016 10:22 AM
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dng45236 Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
[/quote]
Agree. He looked bad yesterday. Part of that is his supporting cast and lack of a good scheme. Part of it is him underthrowing and throwing ducks.
[/quote]

At Temple he was overthrowing.
Against BYU he was underthrowing.

The guy can throw the ball 90 yards in the air.

It looks like the receivers aren't fast enough to get past defenders and get some separation downfield so he dialed it back some in order not to overthrow receivers.

It's really disappointing that we don't have a couple of speed guys out of all of those WR's...

It's also disappointing that some of these receivers are so short...

DL
 
11-06-2016 10:23 AM
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bearcatfan Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
I said earlier this year Kiel had some outstanding receivers the last couple of years that made him look a little better than he is.

Last year he threw the ball up for grabs a lot and the receivers made some great catches.

These new guys may be good, but the play calling has not been so we don't know for sure.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2016 10:26 AM by bearcatfan.)
11-06-2016 10:26 AM
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dsquare Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
He has a number of situations yesterday with guys wide open and he went to covered receivers. Just wasn't seeing the entire field or didn't have a good idea of where guys would be. He also had 2 throws open for td's and over threw one(shorty) and under threw the other longer one.
 
11-06-2016 02:00 PM
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Billy_Bearcat Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
That interception he threw in the redzone showed that his decision making is just as bad as the others.
 
11-06-2016 03:25 PM
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Ahhhorsepoo Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
that int in the redzone was his worst play of the day not even close.. but frankly I've seen more wide open dropped balls than we should ever see at this level.. I get it if they should catch it he should throw a consistent ball. But there is a reason the players wanted Kiel on the field, and it isn't to see him hand the ball off 2 times then try a 4 yard out only to be dropped.

I am by no means a Kiel superfan.. but I am not sure many QB's succeed under this situation. He's yelled at by his HC and OC for basically wanting to win and throw caution to the wind and actually throw when down by >1 score in the 4th quarter(instead we handoff 3 times to help run out the clock). His OC calls stupid running plays with Mike Boone up the middle instead of on the outside where he is actually at times successful, especially with this OL that folds like a Lawnchair in a tornado. I'd contend the playcalling has forced Kiel into some pretty poor throws when it is 3rd and infinity, and then when there is a decent playcall the OL or WR can't do their part either so Kiel seems to be pressing far more than a QB should.

You don't play as well and confident as he has at times for long stretches, and then completely look like a High School JV QB unless your HC and OC are failing to set you up for success. To be brutally honest, I again assert I'm not sure any QB would be successful with the hand he has been dealt, but I commend him for still coming to the field and strapping up every game. I'll always say what if with the guy, but facts are facts and he has not been given a legitimate chance to succeed under this group.

Is he perfect?? not at all.. but put him in a team where they build you up, and you constantly see people over perform for their abilities. When put in a situation that tears you down constantly, you rarely see someone over perform, or even perform up to their ability.

Even if I take it that Kiel is garbage at this point, and the WR's helped make him look good in the past.. The things/decision making I have seen from him this year, shows that if anything this staff has made him go backwards in his progression
 
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2016 09:53 AM by Ahhhorsepoo.)
11-07-2016 09:50 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
I think Kiel has tools that could have been developed better our staffs have but he's been overrated. This is the second staff that puts away any type of roll out or play that has the QB throwing on the run. My guess is that is because he can't throw on the move which makes him a sitting duck in the pocket every play. I think the players wanted Kiel because he's well liked and things weren't going well with the others. I'm not convinced that we wouldn't be better going back to Moore aside from the team wanting Kiel. The offense problems have a lot more to do with coaching than QB.
 
11-07-2016 10:26 AM
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uccheese Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
I don't think he's even in the top 10 of things that are wrong, but ya.... the OP is fair. He hasn't played any better than Moore.
 
11-07-2016 10:33 AM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
DID not watch the Temple game. BYU game, why don't they move Gunner around more in the pocket? They did that with Moore and Trail? The game plan should have attacked BYU over the middle and down the field much more. Gunner's pass into the end zone was a little high to ??? Lewis, Lewis would probably tell you he should have caught it. Was it the first drive of the game where it was 4 and 1 inside the red zone and Tubs call for the FG attempt?
 
11-07-2016 12:14 PM
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Racinejake Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate RE: Gunner Kiel
(11-07-2016 12:14 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  DID not watch the Temple game. BYU game, why don't they move Gunner around more in the pocket? They did that with Moore and Trail? The game plan should have attacked BYU over the middle and down the field much more. Gunner's pass into the end zone was a little high to ??? Lewis, Lewis would probably tell you he should have caught it. Was it the first drive of the game where it was 4 and 1 inside the red zone and Tubs call for the FG attempt?

Totally agree. We had some success over the middle the couple times we tried it. But for the most part it was throws outside the hashes. Just felt like most of the same plays over and over. And we totally abandoned the deep ball.
 
11-07-2016 12:22 PM
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RealDeal Offline
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RE: Devil's Advocate Gunner Kiel
(11-07-2016 12:14 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  DID not watch the Temple game. BYU game, why don't they move Gunner around more in the pocket? They did that with Moore and Trail?

I know I just said it a few posts ago but I suspect Kiel can't throw on the move because 2 straight coordinators have refused to move him. Makes him an easy target
 
11-07-2016 01:06 PM
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