The US Department of Education has fined Penn State University $2.4 million for violating the Clery Act, a law that requires universities to report crime on campus, putting thousands of children at risk.


It's the largest fine in the history of the act, the Department of Education said in a statement Thursday, announcing its findings in a report about the university's compliance with the Clery Act.

The investigation by the department's Office of Federal Student Aid began shortly after former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was charged with being a serial pedophile and prosecutors said many of the crimes occurred on Penn State's campus.

"Penn State's failure to act, despite possessing sufficient evidence about the danger Sandusky posed denied many of the opportunity to be informed about serious threats to the health and safety of campus community members," says the report, which was issued almost exactly five years after Sandusky's arrest,.

"Penn State deprived students and employees as well as the parents and guardians of an estimated 20,000 children participating in youth camps at Penn State every year and the many thousands more attending concerts, sporting events, and other activities on the campus of critical safety information involving a dangerous situation existing on the Penn State campus," the report continued.

The Clery Act was established in 1990, four years after Lehigh University student Jeanne Clery was murdered on campus. It says that universities must annually report crime on campus.

But Penn State violated nearly every aspect of the law, the report says.

"This pattern of noncompliance indicates a severe administrative impairment," the report says, calling into question "the University's ability and willingness" to adhere to other federal rules, such as federal student aid programs.


http://www.wcvb.com/national/dept-of-edu...e/42358482

$2.4 Million Dollars.

What a joke.

The DoE could have suspended or curtailed ALL student aid and Government subsidized student loans. Not saying they should have, but $2.4 Million is NOTHING to an institution the size of Penn State.

(11-03-2016 02:18 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  $2.4 Million Dollars.

What a joke.

The DoE could have suspended or curtailed ALL student aid and Government subsidized student loans. Not saying they should have, but $2.4 Million is NOTHING to an institution the size of Penn State.

It's a mere fraction of a percent of their annual budget. Watch this will be like the NCAA penalties and it ends up being reduced to $10,000 to the charity of their choice.

(11-03-2016 02:18 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  $2.4 Million Dollars.

What a joke.

The DoE could have suspended or curtailed ALL student aid and Government subsidized student loans. Not saying they should have, but $2.4 Million is NOTHING to an institution the size of Penn State.

It was seven times as high as the previously highest Clery Act violation fine.

(11-03-2016 02:18 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  $2.4 Million Dollars.

What a joke.

The DoE could have suspended or curtailed ALL student aid and Government subsidized student loans. Not saying they should have, but $2.4 Million is NOTHING to an institution the size of Penn State.

It's not really about the fine --- the DOE isn't interested in bankrupting a school. NO University has ever taken much of a financial hit as regards Clery Act violations.

It's mostly about the negative PR. No school looks good when the DOE is saying "you weren't being compliant in terms of reporting/taking care of on-campus crimes."

That's a serious thing, of course, and is very concerning for a parent considering sending their kids to PSU. But this is still a backward-looking report. PSU has definitely taken these things seriously since 2012 (as pointed out by George Mitchell, the Athletics Integrity Officer who was on-campus in the 2012-2014 period), and is arguably ahead of their peers right now as regards compliance on these issues.

Bearcat,

Yes, that would've really taught Penn St a lesson!

And it would've been an especially relevant lesson to all of these following types of people affiliated with Penn St, who obviously deserve to suffer for being intimately aware and involved in the sexual molestation of children on campus by a single person:

- janitors who work in the library
- accountants in the finance dept
- counselors in the admissions dept
- professors in the math dept
- the women's rowing team
- the head of the music dept
- the vice dean of research
- the dean of the engineering college
- undergraduate students in the liberal arts program
- graduate students in the history program
- researchers in the molecular biology dept
- technicians in the IT dept
- med school students
- law school students


Yes indeed. All of these people were quite obviously aware of and involved in child rape, on the Penn St campus. So they should all suffer as grieviously as Jerry Sandusky.




Good god, man. It's one thing to be angry. Everyone gets that.

But don't be pathetic.

(11-03-2016 02:18 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  $2.4 Million Dollars.

What a joke.

The DoE could have suspended or curtailed ALL student aid and Government subsidized student loans. Not saying they should have, but $2.4 Million is NOTHING to an institution the size of Penn State.

You would be taking money from kids who weren't even at the school when the events took place. I know they could transfer to another school and reapply but they should not have to. I could maybe see this if they waited until the end of the school year so the kids didn't have to try and transfer mid-semester.

I have always taken issue with the theory that suspending the football program causes too much collateral damage. If the government punishes or shuts down a large business there are lots of smaller businesses that suffer through no fault of their own. There are lots of families that suffer through no fault of their own. We don't have a problem shutting down Enron but don't you dare touch our football program!

(11-03-2016 02:54 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 02:18 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  $2.4 Million Dollars.

What a joke.

The DoE could have suspended or curtailed ALL student aid and Government subsidized student loans. Not saying they should have, but $2.4 Million is NOTHING to an institution the size of Penn State.

It's not really about the fine --- the DOE isn't interested in bankrupting a school. NO University has ever taken much of a financial hit as regards Clery Act violations.

It's mostly about the negative PR. No school looks good when the DOE is saying "you weren't being compliant in terms of reporting/taking care of on-campus crimes."

That's a serious thing, of course, and is very concerning for a parent considering sending their kids to PSU. But this is still a backward-looking report. PSU has definitely taken these things seriously since 2012 (as pointed out by George Mitchell, the Athletics Integrity Officer who was on-campus in the 2012-2014 period), and is arguably ahead of their peers right now as regards compliance on these issues.

It's resting on a big dollar amount in the context of previous violations, and that's all.

The "real ****" would be review cycles, reporting, and placing (and keeping) the school in a more transparent or public light, and if you know Penn State, it's that last part where it would actually be a punishment.

Penn State has probably fought harder on keeping its books closed more than any institution of its kind. Granted, there aren't many "state-related" institutions out there, but from an operational standpoint, what Penn State doesn't freely need to disclose, it doesn't. Forcing it to, and making people aware that they have to be more transparent with their operations and reporting is the kind of thing that actually means you get change within the core of the institution. And maybe it's there that these other, residual, punishments occur (enrollment dips, recruiting/staffing, funding, etc.).

As is...why bother? DoE gets to look big and spend some coin on having some guy write some copy for the websites and rags to pick up. At that kind of coin, hey, now you can create yet another special interest scholarship or awareness program nobody will utilize or access. Penn State gets to say "no, man, we got PUNISHED by Uncle Sam."

What a joke.

(11-03-2016 03:24 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The "real ****" would be review cycles, reporting, and placing (and keeping) the school in a more transparent or public light, and if you know Penn State, it's that last part where it would actually be a punishment.

Penn State has probably fought harder on keeping its books closed more than any institution of its kind. Granted, there aren't many "state-related" institutions out there, but from an operational standpoint, what Penn State doesn't freely need to disclose, it doesn't. Forcing it to, and making people aware that they have to be more transparent with their operations and reporting is the kind of thing that actually means you get change within the core of the institution. And maybe it's there that these other, residual, punishments occur (enrollment dips, recruiting/staffing, funding, etc.).

PSU:

(1) commissioned the Freeh Report,

(2) made sure there was a written report vs. the results being delivered orally (nice stunt that Baylor pulled),

(3) agreed to having George Mitchell on campus for several years, and

(4) WILL be the subject of further DOE Clery Act compliance reports, this time for the 2012-and-beyond time period.

4 things that all contradict your thesis.

(11-03-2016 02:18 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  $2.4 Million Dollars.

What a joke.

The DoE could have suspended or curtailed ALL student aid and Government subsidized student loans. Not saying they should have, but $2.4 Million is NOTHING to an institution the size of Penn State.

I was concerned they wouldn't do anything. Its taken a long time. The feds were the right ones to punish Penn St., not the NCAA.

(11-03-2016 03:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Bearcat,

Yes, that would've really taught Penn St a lesson!

And it would've been an especially relevant lesson to all of these following types of people affiliated with Penn St, who obviously deserve to suffer for being intimately aware and involved in the sexual molestation of children on campus by a single person:

- janitors who work in the library
- accountants in the finance dept
- counselors in the admissions dept
- professors in the math dept
- the women's rowing team
- the head of the music dept
- the vice dean of research
- the dean of the engineering college
- undergraduate students in the liberal arts program
- graduate students in the history program
- researchers in the molecular biology dept
- technicians in the IT dept
- med school students
- law school students


Yes indeed. All of these people were quite obviously aware of and involved in child rape, on the Penn St campus. So they should all suffer as grieviously as Jerry Sandusky.




Good god, man. It's one thing to be angry. Everyone gets that.

But don't be pathetic.

My point was merely that the Department of Education had FAR more leverage and power than imposing a trivial fine. If they were really concerned with Penn State's compliance...which if you read their statement they express doubts about the rest of Penn State's integrity due to their abject failure in this case...then they could have put A LOT more pressure on the institution.

But that's not going to happen to a major institution any more than North Carolina will have to ever worry about their accreditation for handing out fake degrees.

It's a joke.

bullet,

Agreed. NCAA had no right.


bearcat,

You were talking about shutting down the school. Which would've been a major loss to the state and indeed country.

(11-03-2016 01:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  The US Department of Education has fined Penn State University $2.4 million for violating the Clery Act, a law that requires universities to report crime on campus, putting thousands of children at risk.

Good. Maybe now that fan base will get it.

(11-03-2016 05:01 PM)westwolf Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 01:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  The US Department of Education has fined Penn State University $2.4 million for violating the Clery Act, a law that requires universities to report crime on campus, putting thousands of children at risk.

Good. Maybe now that fan base will get it.

That's the same as wishing for flying unicorns.

What is there to get?

Wouldn't be any different than if the Pitt offensive coordinator walked into a fast food restaurant and blew away the entire staff with a shotgun.

It'd be a heinous crime, committed by a criminal. Who would be locked up in prison.


That would have nothing to do with the school, the students, faculty, and staff of the school, or the football team.

(11-03-2016 04:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 03:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Bearcat,

Yes, that would've really taught Penn St a lesson!

And it would've been an especially relevant lesson to all of these following types of people affiliated with Penn St, who obviously deserve to suffer for being intimately aware and involved in the sexual molestation of children on campus by a single person:

- janitors who work in the library
- accountants in the finance dept
- counselors in the admissions dept
- professors in the math dept
- the women's rowing team
- the head of the music dept
- the vice dean of research
- the dean of the engineering college
- undergraduate students in the liberal arts program
- graduate students in the history program
- researchers in the molecular biology dept
- technicians in the IT dept
- med school students
- law school students


Yes indeed. All of these people were quite obviously aware of and involved in child rape, on the Penn St campus. So they should all suffer as grieviously as Jerry Sandusky.




Good god, man. It's one thing to be angry. Everyone gets that.

But don't be pathetic.

My point was merely that the Department of Education had FAR more leverage and power than imposing a trivial fine. If they were really concerned with Penn State's compliance...which if you read their statement they express doubts about the rest of Penn State's integrity due to their abject failure in this case...then they could have put A LOT more pressure on the institution.

But that's not going to happen to a major institution any more than North Carolina will have to ever worry about their accreditation for handing out fake degrees.

It's a joke.

The fine should be proportional to the transgression, NOT to the size of the institution.

In this case, you're talking about an action by (at most) a few dozen employees at a university that employs 17,000 people. If this had happened at Walmart's headquarters, would you want the fine to be $100 billion to make sure that Walmart "gets the point?"

+3 Captain

(11-03-2016 05:37 PM)westwolf Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 05:10 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 05:01 PM)westwolf Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 01:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  The US Department of Education has fined Penn State University $2.4 million for violating the Clery Act, a law that requires universities to report crime on campus, putting thousands of children at risk.

Good. Maybe now that fan base will get it.

That's the same as wishing for flying unicorns.

You're probably right

(11-03-2016 05:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 04:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 03:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Bearcat,

Yes, that would've really taught Penn St a lesson!

And it would've been an especially relevant lesson to all of these following types of people affiliated with Penn St, who obviously deserve to suffer for being intimately aware and involved in the sexual molestation of children on campus by a single person:

- janitors who work in the library
- accountants in the finance dept
- counselors in the admissions dept
- professors in the math dept
- the women's rowing team
- the head of the music dept
- the vice dean of research
- the dean of the engineering college
- undergraduate students in the liberal arts program
- graduate students in the history program
- researchers in the molecular biology dept
- technicians in the IT dept
- med school students
- law school students


Yes indeed. All of these people were quite obviously aware of and involved in child rape, on the Penn St campus. So they should all suffer as grieviously as Jerry Sandusky.




Good god, man. It's one thing to be angry. Everyone gets that.

But don't be pathetic.

My point was merely that the Department of Education had FAR more leverage and power than imposing a trivial fine. If they were really concerned with Penn State's compliance...which if you read their statement they express doubts about the rest of Penn State's integrity due to their abject failure in this case...then they could have put A LOT more pressure on the institution.

But that's not going to happen to a major institution any more than North Carolina will have to ever worry about their accreditation for handing out fake degrees.

It's a joke.

The fine should be proportional to the transgression, NOT to the size of the institution.

In this case, you're talking about an action by (at most) a few dozen employees at a university that employs 17,000 people. If this had happened at Walmart's headquarters, would you want the fine to be $100 billion to make sure that Walmart "gets the point?"

I'm no lawyer, but that's actually a legal principle...

And for the THIRD time on this thread, I'm not talking about "shutting down" the school OR fining them a "gazillion" dollars.

I'm talking about...and I don't know how much more clearly I can say it... the fact that the DoE had far more leverage to do something effectual than to levy an inconsequential fine. They chose not to do it.

So, "the next time" some school flaunts the Clery Act, we are supposed to do what...get all bothered by it? Because we now have a precedent by which other schools can gauge just how serious the DoE is and what it will cost them.

It.
Is.
A.
Joke.

(11-03-2016 06:55 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 05:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 04:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-03-2016 03:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Bearcat,

Yes, that would've really taught Penn St a lesson!

And it would've been an especially relevant lesson to all of these following types of people affiliated with Penn St, who obviously deserve to suffer for being intimately aware and involved in the sexual molestation of children on campus by a single person:

- janitors who work in the library
- accountants in the finance dept
- counselors in the admissions dept
- professors in the math dept
- the women's rowing team
- the head of the music dept
- the vice dean of research
- the dean of the engineering college
- undergraduate students in the liberal arts program
- graduate students in the history program
- researchers in the molecular biology dept
- technicians in the IT dept
- med school students
- law school students


Yes indeed. All of these people were quite obviously aware of and involved in child rape, on the Penn St campus. So they should all suffer as grieviously as Jerry Sandusky.




Good god, man. It's one thing to be angry. Everyone gets that.

But don't be pathetic.

My point was merely that the Department of Education had FAR more leverage and power than imposing a trivial fine. If they were really concerned with Penn State's compliance...which if you read their statement they express doubts about the rest of Penn State's integrity due to their abject failure in this case...then they could have put A LOT more pressure on the institution.

But that's not going to happen to a major institution any more than North Carolina will have to ever worry about their accreditation for handing out fake degrees.

It's a joke.

The fine should be proportional to the transgression, NOT to the size of the institution.

In this case, you're talking about an action by (at most) a few dozen employees at a university that employs 17,000 people. If this had happened at Walmart's headquarters, would you want the fine to be $100 billion to make sure that Walmart "gets the point?"

I'm no lawyer, but that's actually a legal principle...

And for the THIRD time on this thread, I'm not talking about "shutting down" the school OR fining them a "gazillion" dollars.

I'm talking about...and I don't know how much more clearly I can say it... the fact that the DoE had far more leverage to do something effectual than to levy an inconsequential fine. They chose not to do it.

So, "the next time" some school flaunts the Clery Act, we are supposed to do what...get all bothered by it? Because we now have a precedent by which other schools can gauge just how serious the DoE is and what it will cost them.

It.
Is.
A.
Joke.

Why is the fine "inconsequential?" $2.4 million is a helluva lot of money - it's enough to pay 48 average employees' annual salaries. That's comparable to many of the highest awards in civil cases that concern a similar crime.

It's also a significant portion of the school's football budget (roughly 10%).

It's only "inconsequential" in relation to the size of Penn State University.