Getting close to the number of I-A schools that forced the NCAA to reclassify schools in 1982.

I suspect it won't be mandated. Way more money at stake than there was in 1982. And if it happens it will be because of the Power 5 not because of the NCAA.

http://dks.library.kent.edu/cgi-bin/kent...203-01.2.3

I hope so. It won't happen though now that the P5 is barring playing FCS schools. They have to keep us around for game inventory.

(10-26-2016 09:31 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Getting close to the number of I-A schools that forced the NCAA to reclassify schools in 1982.

I suspect it won't be mandated. Way more money at stake than there was in 1982. And if it happens it will be because of the Power 5 not because of the NCAA.

http://dks.library.kent.edu/cgi-bin/kent...203-01.2.3

P5 Are classifying some G5 schools as a P5 lately. I think they might classified some FCS schools like North Dakota State as a P5 school because they are a strong team.

Should be around 80-100 schools at the highest level

As long as the NCAA isn't running the post-season and thus making the revenue part of the NCAA budget, there really isn't much reason for it. As a Southland Conference president said back in 1981, they wouldn't be having the discussion of reducing I-A but for the NCAA TV money fight. The drop down was a ploy to try to get OU and UGA to drop their anti-trust lawsuit by beefing up their TV payout, but the money wasn't the critical issue, exposure was. They weren't really envisioning what would happen with cable TV, they just wanted to be able to syndicate games over-the-air within their region. OU would rather have the TV stations in OKC and Tulsa show an OU game than some SWC or Big Ten game being on. Remember you were limited to 5 appearances over a rolling two year period.

The bar to moving up without a conference invite coupled with the lack of revenue sharing of any significant amount creates no reason to trim FBS.

What growth has taken place in membership the past few years has been largely created by P5 realignment throwing the G5 leagues into survival mode.

Given the money involved I have a hard time believing it would happen again. A P5 split would be much more likely and achieve in essence the same results.

I was however fascinated to go back through past issues of the Stater. I might have to go searching university sites to see what other schools have historic papers available.

Perhaps after the Big 12 collapses the Power 4 will pull their football programs out of the NCAA and form a new structure circumventing the authority and oversight of the NCAA.

There won't be removing schools from the top level. It is a rubberband effect that schools will be moving up because of the cost involved. PAC 12 would want the Big Sky teams to move up.

(10-26-2016 09:31 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Getting close to the number of I-A schools that forced the NCAA to reclassify schools in 1982.

I suspect it won't be mandated. Way more money at stake than there was in 1982. And if it happens it will be because of the Power 5 not because of the NCAA.

http://dks.library.kent.edu/cgi-bin/kent...203-01.2.3

Exactly what problem are you guys trying to solve with 'too many FBS programs'?

I believe it will but neither football nor the P5 will not be the driving force. Basketball and mid-major conference teams will be the driving force this go-round to cull out the DI in name only schools who are taking away March Madness money.

(10-30-2016 07:51 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I believe it will but neither football nor the P5 will not be the driving force. Basketball and mid-major conference teams will be the driving force this go-round to cull out the DI in name only schools who are taking away March Madness money.

That will self sort itself out with FCOA stipends. Some schools will simply never go to the tournament because they can't recruit well.

Or they could just add 1 more game to the tournament and then just about every P5, A-10, Big East, and most WCC/MVC teams will go every year. That way, the 20 lower D1 conferences would likely get 20/128 of the first round money (and likely none of the other rounds' money), instead of 20/64 of the first round's money.

I don't see a clean break between P5 and G5, and if there is it's one of those be careful what you wish for kind of things for most programs. The Purdues and Boston Colleges of the world can squeak out a few wins thanks to FCS programs and buy games, but you're going to have a lot of unhappy campers at the bottom who'll resent being demoted to permanent loser. At least now there's some hope for the Dukes and Indianas of the world.

FBS was intended to be a uniform level.

Its the CFP and its forerunners the BCS and Bowl Alliance that constructed a post season designed around a few major bowls. Their handiwork has titled the perception and value toward conferences with a stake in those major bowls.

For the access spot the idea was for a "buster" on a magical year would earn a right to play in a CFP bowl. That one undefeated team making a move in the polls all year.

The G5 is to the point where its producing 3-5 ranked teams and some in the Top 10. They playoff has become the predominant discussion topic and become the important thing to preserve.

The next step would be bigger TV contracts by the G5 and each champion to have a berth to a CFP bowl. Add the Holiday and Capital One bowls and with the Fiesta, Cotton and Peach could be locations for each of the G5 champions.

Doesn't sound feasible for every G5 champ to have an autobid to a CFP bowl? More inventory adds more value to the CFP with the additional bowls. The G5 teams can represent in these games but they do not have to get paid more than what they are now. They could trade access for money.

As long as SOS is a big factor in playoff selection then it's fine. That way the giant commitment gulf between various teams is recognized while still allowing for exceptional and deserving teams that aren't from power conferences

If UH hadn't crapped the bed, they would probably be in the playoff this year given how weak the B12 is looking

(10-30-2016 07:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-30-2016 07:51 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I believe it will but neither football nor the P5 will not be the driving force. Basketball and mid-major conference teams will be the driving force this go-round to cull out the DI in name only schools who are taking away March Madness money.

That will self sort itself out with FCOA stipends. Some schools will simply never go to the tournament because they can't recruit well.

Or they could just add 1 more game to the tournament and then just about every P5, A-10, Big East, and most WCC/MVC teams will go every year. That way, the 20 lower D1 conferences would likely get 20/128 of the first round money (and likely none of the other rounds' money), instead of 20/64 of the first round's money.

That and flat national enrollment for the near-term which will see some schools struggle to maintain enrollment in a competitive environment coupled with population shifts. Throw in flat to falling state revenue support and you will see some schools not be able to handle the economics of Division I.

(10-30-2016 07:51 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I believe it will but neither football nor the P5 will not be the driving force. Basketball and mid-major conference teams will be the driving force this go-round to cull out the DI in name only schools who are taking away March Madness money.

I do think the non-football schools should be D4. There are way too many schools that do not sponsor football at all levels.

(10-30-2016 10:32 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  FBS was intended to be a uniform level.

Its the CFP and its forerunners the BCS and Bowl Alliance that constructed a post season designed around a few major bowls. Their handiwork has titled the perception and value toward conferences with a stake in those major bowls.

For the access spot the idea was for a "buster" on a magical year would earn a right to play in a CFP bowl. That one undefeated team making a move in the polls all year.

The G5 is to the point where its producing 3-5 ranked teams and some in the Top 10. They playoff has become the predominant discussion topic and become the important thing to preserve.

The next step would be bigger TV contracts by the G5 and each champion to have a berth to a CFP bowl. Add the Holiday and Capital One bowls and with the Fiesta, Cotton and Peach could be locations for each of the G5 champions.

Doesn't sound feasible for every G5 champ to have an autobid to a CFP bowl? More inventory adds more value to the CFP with the additional bowls. The G5 teams can represent in these games but they do not have to get paid more than what they are now. They could trade access for money.

Here's the thing: the P5 is NOT shutting out G5 champs from the top bowls. The free market of the bowls is stating has determined that they don't want those G5 champs. The Capital One Bowl, Holiday Bowl and the free market overall has already deemed the 2nd/3rd/4th place teams from the Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, ACC and Pac-12 to be significantly more valuable than even the very best schools from the G5, which is why they get those bowl slots. If those bowls start taking lower value schools, then they cease to be high value bowls.

I know that G5 fans don't want to hear this, but the financial reality is that the P5 is already *subsidizing* the G5 for even its single access bowl slot. The fact of the matter is that the free market wouldn't even provide the G5 with that single access bowl slot if the P5 didn't mandate it. The G5 is lucky to even have that access bowl slot in the first place - they can't expect anything more than that unless they provide their FINANCIAL/BRANDING value (which is different than simply being good on-the-field) to the bowls themselves. Otherwise, lower-ranked P5 schools are going to continue to be deemed to be more valuable than even the very best G5 schools.

(10-31-2016 07:57 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I know that G5 fans don't want to hear this, but the financial reality is that the P5 is already *subsidizing* the G5 for even its single access bowl slot. The fact of the matter is that the free market wouldn't even provide the G5 with that single access bowl slot if the P5 didn't mandate it. The G5 is lucky to even have that access bowl slot in the first place - they can't expect anything more than that unless they provide their FINANCIAL/BRANDING value (which is different than simply being good on-the-field) to the bowls themselves. Otherwise, lower-ranked P5 schools are going to continue to be deemed to be more valuable than even the very best G5 schools.

Without a doubt... But the Florida States are subsidizing the Wake Forests as well, and to a much higher degree. You know that year when Wake Forest made the Orange Bowl that the bowl executives were doing a facepalm.

I think my problem is that these bowls, rather than the NCAA, are running the division 1 FBS postseason. There's far too much money at stake for that to ever change, but in a perfect world, even though the B1G and SEC should be able to command more from the networks for their conference programming, the NCAA should be selling the postseason and dividing it up evenly among all members of the top tier or splitting it based on performance like they do in basketball. NCAA March Madness has proven that people will watch postseason programming even if it isn't strictly blue bloods, and doing a REAL playoff where Alabama beats Troy in the first round will still draw more eyeballs than Alabama beating Troy the week before rivalry week.

I guess what I'm saying is that the "free market" SHOULDN'T determine who's in the postseason. You can say we're "lucky" to have access at all, but seeing as - right now - we're all FBS, we SHOULD have access to the postseason.

(10-26-2016 09:31 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Getting close to the number of I-A schools that forced the NCAA to reclassify schools in 1982.

I suspect it won't be mandated. Way more money at stake than there was in 1982. And if it happens it will be because of the Power 5 not because of the NCAA.

http://dks.library.kent.edu/cgi-bin/kent...203-01.2.3

A lot of the impetus of the original I-AA cramdown was the sharing of TV money. The major conferences, IIRC led by the Big Ten, wanted to stop sharing NCAA TV money with the Ivy League and others who didn't invest to compete at the highest level. The creation of I-AA allowed the Ivy and others to remain in D1, while excluding them from most of the TV money. The revenue sharing formula developed at the time is still used for NCAA basketball money, where a significant percentage is distributed to the sports sponsorship fund (which the Ivy does well under) and another large percentage is distributed under a grant-in-aid fund (which the Big Ten does well under). Only 40% of the NCAA tourney money is distributed under the Basketball fund based on tournament success.

The creation of I-AA initially only forced around 24 schools down in 1982. Over the first few years, though, another dozen dropped down because they couldn't maintain I-A standards. The minimum thresholds were carefully drafted by the Big Ten to allow the MAC to remain in I-A, despite having several members who couldn't comply individually.

Since TV money has been largely decentralized, the need to do this again would not appear to provide much value to the P5. Even the centralized TV money (the NCAAT) is paid out on formula that significantly favors the P5, which receives something like 50% of the Basketball fund and 40% overall.