(10-28-2016 12:23 PM)HuskyHawk Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 03:57 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 03:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 05:17 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 03:24 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  And to those who think it's far fetched or illogical, just how many close games does UConn have in the AAC? Temple and..? Navy is football only and even they are in the other division, playing schools thousands of miles away from Maryland.

As I said, baseball is a hassle but in basketball they'd only play 3-4 games east of Indianapolis per year in the nBE (we're talking 8 home games, 5 intradivision road games and 3 interdivisional road games), plus non-conference play and the BETournament.

Would they be doing all that much more traveling than UConn or Notre Dame in the AAC and ACC?

UConn HAS to travel that far. Given the option they wouldn't. The Big East has the option, they don't need the Zags to survive.

One more thing, no way they decide to ever go to divisions. The 16 team Big East didn't have divisions, no way Creighton gives up games in the eastern cities to play Gonzaga.

NO ONE HAS DIVISIONS ANYMORE BESIDES OVC AND THE MAC!

UConn could park in the A-10 and be indy in football or maybe start a scheduling alliance with a conference or two. They don't have many but they do have some options as well. The A-10 would be an upgrade over the AAC for basketball, at least considering how basketball is king there and not pegged below football.

The A-10 has finished ahead of the AAC in basketball every year the AAC has existed

And probably never will again.

Hard to say that after having a lower conference RPI than them for the last 3 seasons.

UCF, USF, Tulane and East Carolina have just absolutely destroyed the AAC's RPI over the past three years. Take those four teams out, and you have a very strong basketball league.

Still not sure why the AAC doesn't consider adding VCU and Wichita State to negate those four school's negative impact on the league. It may not add substantial value in money, but it protects UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple, SMU and Houston from getting hurt by those programs.

Yeah, well Fordham, Duquesne as well as La Salle and St. Bonaventure (minus an occasional uprising) have been hurting the A-10 since forever, so no excuses other than me asking why in the bleep did the AAC add certain schools back when it was still the Big East?

(10-27-2016 07:17 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Big East:

Gonzaga
St. Mary's
San Diego
Denver

DePaul
St. Louis
Marquette
Creighton

Butler
Xavier
Georgetown
Villanova

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Richmond

The pods would only be for scheduling purposes, but the setup lends naturally lends itself to an 18 game conference schedule.


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But a ten team league lends itself to an 18 game conference schedule with a full double round robin. Who do we know that has such a league - oh, yeah. The Big East.

Why do so many people seem to want somebody else's conference to expand?

(10-28-2016 01:19 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UCF, USF, Tulane and East Carolina have just absolutely destroyed the AAC's RPI over the past three years. Take those four teams out, and you have a very strong basketball league.

Still not sure why the AAC doesn't consider adding VCU and Wichita State to negate those four school's negative impact on the league. It may not add substantial value in money, but it protects UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple, SMU and Houston from getting hurt by those programs.

Every conference has dregs, my school is one of them. Doesn't change the fact that the AAC has yet to finish a season ranked higher than the A10.

And FTR, I'm not advocating a BE expansion but find the Gonzaga travel excuse to be weak.

(10-28-2016 02:12 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  And FTR, I'm not advocating a BE expansion but find the Gonzaga travel excuse to be weak.

What happens if they struggle in the BE and don't keep up their level of play? Say in 15 years they are a bottom feeder. Why would the conference want to keep sending all of it's sports all the way out west? These decisions are 30-40-50 year decisions not right now decisions. I don't see the current form of the Big East breaking up anytime soon. They are now more stable than they have ever been before.

(10-28-2016 02:29 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-28-2016 02:12 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  And FTR, I'm not advocating a BE expansion but find the Gonzaga travel excuse to be weak.

What happens if they struggle in the BE and don't keep up their level of play? Say in 15 years they are a bottom feeder. Why would the conference want to keep sending all of it's sports all the way out west? These decisions are 30-40-50 year decisions not right now decisions. I don't see the current form of the Big East breaking up anytime soon. They are now more stable than they have ever been before.

Expansion is a lot of about athletics, but it is also very much not about athletics. It has do to with institutional fit, location, academics, peers, among many other requirements. Gonzaga is very much an institutional fit alongside the current Big East schools, as well as bringing an extremely strong basketball program and athletic program dedicated to basketball. However, their location is a huge deterrent to the concept of the Big East, an East Coast-centered league with schools in big cities markets.

(10-28-2016 02:29 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-28-2016 02:12 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  And FTR, I'm not advocating a BE expansion but find the Gonzaga travel excuse to be weak.

What happens if they struggle in the BE and don't keep up their level of play? Say in 15 years they are a bottom feeder. Why would the conference want to keep sending all of it's sports all the way out west? These decisions are 30-40-50 year decisions not right now decisions. I don't see the current form of the Big East breaking up anytime soon. They are now more stable than they have ever been before.

If that happens they'll have options in that landscape. You better yourself in the present and worry and tomorrow later. The worst thing that can happen is a return to the status quo for both sides. Gonzaga can't do worse than the WCC except maybe the WAC.

(10-28-2016 02:58 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  [quote='RutgersGuy' pid='13726897' dateline='1477682964']


Expansion is a lot of about athletics, but it is also very much not about athletics. It has do to with institutional fit, location, academics, peers, among many other requirements. Gonzaga is very much an institutional fit alongside the current Big East schools, as well as bringing an extremely strong basketball program and athletic program dedicated to basketball. However, their location is a huge deterrent to the concept of the Big East, an East Coast-centered league with schools in big cities markets.

You had me till the last sentence. While partially correct, half the league is in the Midwest and 4 in the central time zone. One is equidistant to both coasts. They've already made a mockery of the name and original concept.

(10-28-2016 05:13 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-28-2016 02:29 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-28-2016 02:12 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  And FTR, I'm not advocating a BE expansion but find the Gonzaga travel excuse to be weak.

What happens if they struggle in the BE and don't keep up their level of play? Say in 15 years they are a bottom feeder. Why would the conference want to keep sending all of it's sports all the way out west? These decisions are 30-40-50 year decisions not right now decisions. I don't see the current form of the Big East breaking up anytime soon. They are now more stable than they have ever been before.

'?p

If that happens they'll have options in that landscape. You better yourself in the
present and worry and tomorrow later. The worst thing that can happen is a return to the status quo for both sides. Gonzaga can't do worse than the WCC except maybe the WAC.

Thats what desperate unstable conferences do.

Which is why I'm not advocating a move. I am saying they have little legit excuse. Even the eastern half of the league isn't a bus league with rare exception, so everyone uses planes to get around.

(10-28-2016 06:46 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Which is why I'm not advocating a move. I am saying they have little legit excuse. Even the eastern half of the league isn't a bus league with rare exception, so everyone uses planes to get around.

The eastern half is definitely a bus league. 3 teams are about an hour apart from each other. Even the two farthest ones are at most a 5 hour drive.

The Mid-west half definitely is not a bus league.

Just offhand, do all the Big East schools take charter flights? there's a big difference in time involved between flying commercial and charter (beyond actual flight time). also, what about all the other sports?

Except for Creighton, i think the farthest driving time would be Marquette to Xavier at 7 hrs. Are the midwestern schools flying all their sports between each other?

(10-28-2016 06:52 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-28-2016 06:46 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Which is why I'm not advocating a move. I am saying they have little legit excuse. Even the eastern half of the league isn't a bus league with rare exception, so everyone uses planes to get around.

The eastern half is definitely a bus league. 3 teams are about an hour apart from each other. Even the two farthest ones are at most a 5 hour drive.

The Mid-west half definitely is not a bus league.

Villanova and especially Hall and St. John's are drivable. Given that many games are on weeknights, no one else is except Marquette and DePaul.

My point was that the majority of the time they spend time on airplanes.

(10-28-2016 08:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-28-2016 06:52 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-28-2016 06:46 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Which is why I'm not advocating a move. I am saying they have little legit excuse. Even the eastern half of the league isn't a bus league with rare exception, so everyone uses planes to get around.

The eastern half is definitely a bus league. 3 teams are about an hour apart from each other. Even the two farthest ones are at most a 5 hour drive.

The Mid-west half definitely is not a bus league.

Villanova and especially Hall and St. John's are drivable. Given that many games are on weeknights, no one else is except Marquette and DePaul.

My point was that the majority of the time they spend time on airplanes.

PC to GT would be a 7-8 hr drive likely but anything else in the east is around 5 hrs or less driving. Trains may be easier than flying especially compared to commercial flights considering security and delays at airports. I think PC rode the train to MSG two years ago to the Big East Tournament.

Marquette to Xavier is a 6.5 hrs drive; Depaul to Xavier is 5 hrs. Except for Creighton, all the other midwestern schools are under 5 hrs driving.

I guess everyone takes a plane to Creighton for all sports. I'd also guess schools fly east-midwest too although might that be only for some sports?

I'm not sure if it can be said definitively that they spend the majority of time flying. And even if they do, in terms of Gonzaga, there is the variables of commercial vs charter as well as how much time is spent getting there (in air time, driving from airport).

I didn't say they weren't close enough to drive, even Marquette to Butler is a relative easy drive. I meant which places are the easiest drive on a school night after a game that ends at 8 or 10 O'Clock? There's only about 3-5 of those or if you want 6-10.

C2, I realize half the members are Midwest (Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier), but all of the marketing and advertising of the Big East heavily promotes New York. We have our media day there, we have our tournament there, and many of our teams play games there during the year (not including conference play, like the 2K classic). So, when I say that it is East Coast-centered, I mean that the league focuses that area as its hub. While half of its members are not East Coast, all of the schools do have many alumni and fans in that area.

I don't have any research on the subject, but I would guess that Gonzaga (and St. Mary's, LMU, Pepperdine, etc.) have very few alumni and fans on the east coast, so a potential membership would not add to our main location of the conference.

They have few alums anywhere but that doesn't mean they couldn't be a solid add, at least the Zags.

If it was worth it financially Gonzaga would have already been in.