I was looking at Dooley's bio and he was very young when he took the ECU job (only 50 now). What happened during his tenure? He was only at ECU 4 years but was above .500 during that time.



I ask because he's doing pretty well at Florida Gulf Coast right now. In ECU's next coaching search, would you look at him?

AAC basketball is composed of 3 distinct groups.

Group 1: UConn (Ollie), Temple (Dunphy), Cincinnati (Cronin), and Memphis (Smith).

Group 2: SMU (Jankovich), Tulsa (Haith), Houston (Sampson), and Tulane (Dunleavy).

Group 3: UCF (Dawkins), USF (Antigua), and ECU (Lebo).

These groups are divided in rivalry, athletic focus, and geography. I know in Group 2, the Larry Brown hire had a remarkable impact on the subsequent hires of Sampson, Haith, and Dunleavy (all accomplished coaches as well). They also fish in the same recruiting waters. SMU recruits Tulsa and of course all of them recruit in and around Texas.

The AAC mainly needs to revitalize Group 3. They have their own geography. Dawkins (a Duke grad) was a good start and Tacko gives him a great piece to build around.

But, what do USF and ECU need to do to revitalize their hoops programs?

Obviously, their focus should be in the Southeast (Florida to the Carolinas). I think UCF-USF-ECU need to play off each other like the other two AAC groups are doing. They should recruit the same waters to foster rivalry and enhance their profiles within their shared region with recruits, who talk amongst each other and may see playing against one another as a good sell.

Which brings me back to Dooley. Might his Florida ties put him in good standing for a return to ECU? What kind of coach would fit there (or at USF)?

Of course, Florida ties aren't required but we do need to raise the AAC's profile in that region, especially if we are to hold more tournaments in Orlando. I think USF's first choice, Masiello, would have thrived. Nevertheless, if the American is going to pop that region there does need to be some shared focus.

Dooley was an Assistant Coach at ECU under Eddie Payne (USC Upstate) in the early 90's. Payne's 2nd year team finished 7th in the old CAA (which was underrated nationally), but went on a miracle run to win the CAA and go the NCAA tourney as an under .500 team. Payne finished 5th the next year, then 4th, and then got offered the HC job at Oregon State. He took it and ECU promoted Dooley.

ECU had just renovated its Coliseum and the future looked bright if Dooley did well. He finished 4th his first year, then 3rd his second and had landed some pretty good recruits. ECU's expectations were to move up and win the CAA. Dooley's teams finished 7th in the next two years and the Admins decided Dooley wasn't going to get it done. They brought in Bill Herrion, who was a very successful coach at Drexel.

IMO, Dooley was not the best floor coach, but was an above average recruiter. He went to Kansas for 10 years or so as an assistant coach and recruiter (although Kansas kind of sells itself).

Gulf Coast is a good spot for Dooley, they are riding their momentum under the previous head coach and they are in an easy league to win, so I would expect Dooley to be able to make some NCAA tourneys. Dooley is also probably a better coach now than he was during his tenure at ECU. I would not expect ECU to look in that direction though, there were some that questioned the firing at the time. Had he left on his own accord (like Skip Holtz), then I could see it being possible.

Arguably the worst firing in ECU history, even worse than Logan. He had David West committed to come to ECU when he was fired. David West would have been a program changing player for ECU.

(10-25-2016 11:17 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Dooley was an Assistant Coach at ECU under Eddie Payne (USC Upstate) in the early 90's. Payne's 2nd year team finished 7th in the old CAA (which was underrated nationally), but went on a miracle run to win the CAA and go the NCAA tourney as an under .500 team. Payne finished 5th the next year, then 4th, and then got offered the HC job at Oregon State. He took it and ECU promoted Dooley.

ECU had just renovated its Coliseum and the future looked bright if Dooley did well. He finished 4th his first year, then 3rd his second and had landed some pretty good recruits. ECU's expectations were to move up and win the CAA. Dooley's teams finished 7th in the next two years and the Admins decided Dooley wasn't going to get it done. They brought in Bill Herrion, who was a very successful coach at Drexel.

IMO, Dooley was not the best floor coach, but was an above average recruiter. He went to Kansas for 10 years or so as an assistant coach and recruiter (although Kansas kind of sells itself).

Gulf Coast is a good spot for Dooley, they are riding their momentum under the previous head coach and they are in an easy league to win, so I would expect Dooley to be able to make some NCAA tourneys. Dooley is also probably a better coach now than he was during his tenure at ECU. I would not expect ECU to look in that direction though, there were some that questioned the firing at the time. Had he left on his own accord (like Skip Holtz), then I could see it being possible.

Holy cow those Herrion years bring back such nightmares. You could just see all of CUSA improving in basketball...passing us by like we were elderly people on the interstate.

It's like he had dirt on Hamrick or something

FTR, Herrion was hired before ECU found out it was moving to CUSA. At the time, the Herrion hire was a big time move for ECU basketball.

In reality that hire was used by the Chancellor as a selling point to justify CUSA membership in all sports.

That old CUSA league was a beast, some years ranked as the 4th best league in the country.

Payne went on to fail at OSU.

So there is some context for what took place...and at this point, its not set in stone that Dooley is a great head coach.

Obviously I know he was hired before we went to CUSA, but the majority of his tenure was in CUSA so what does it matter and it's also completely beside the point.

When we went all sports in CUSA, there were major opportunities for us to improve in basketball and we squandered all of them while all of the future Big East teams proceeded to improve drastically. That's my point. That period was so critical and we had just as much potential to be a Big East team, but our inability to improve in basketball -- and the fact that we were disgraceful in football at the time -- made us a laughing stock candidate because of how we were perceived at the time.

(10-25-2016 10:22 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  I was looking at Dooley's bio and he was very young when he took the ECU job (only 50 now). What happened during his tenure? He was only at ECU 4 years but was above .500 during that time.



I ask because he's doing pretty well at Florida Gulf Coast right now. In ECU's next coaching search, would you look at him?

AAC basketball is composed of 3 distinct groups.

Group 1: UConn (Ollie), Temple (Dunphy), Cincinnati (Cronin), and Memphis (Smith).

Group 2: SMU (Jankovich), Tulsa (Haith), Houston (Sampson), and Tulane (Dunleavy).

Group 3: UCF (Dawkins), USF (Antigua), and ECU (Lebo).

These groups are divided in rivalry, athletic focus, and geography. I know in Group 2, the Larry Brown hire had a remarkable impact on the subsequent hires of Sampson, Haith, and Dunleavy (all accomplished coaches as well). They also fish in the same recruiting waters. SMU recruits Tulsa and of course all of them recruit in and around Texas.

The AAC mainly needs to revitalize Group 3. They have their own geography. Dawkins (a Duke grad) was a good start and Tacko gives him a great piece to build around.

But, what do USF and ECU need to do to revitalize their hoops programs?

Obviously, their focus should be in the Southeast (Florida to the Carolinas). I think UCF-USF-ECU need to play off each other like the other two AAC groups are doing. They should recruit the same waters to foster rivalry and enhance their profiles within their shared region with recruits, who talk amongst each other and may see playing against one another as a good sell.

Which brings me back to Dooley. Might his Florida ties put him in good standing for a return to ECU? What kind of coach would fit there (or at USF)?

Of course, Florida ties aren't required but we do need to raise the AAC's profile in that region, especially if we are to hold more tournaments in Orlando. I think USF's first choice, Masiello, would have thrived. Nevertheless, if the American is going to pop that region there does need to be some shared focus.

Short answer is it was another bad decision by the AD at the time, Mike Hamrick.

ECU ended up with Jeff Lebo, so all in all they came out on top...IMO.

(10-25-2016 11:53 AM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  Obviously I know he was hired before we went to CUSA, but the majority of his tenure was in CUSA so what does it matter and it's also completely beside the point.

When we went all sports in CUSA, there were major opportunities for us to improve in basketball and we squandered all of them while all of the future Big East teams proceeded to improve drastically. That's my point. That period was so critical and we had just as much potential to be a Big East team, but our inability to improve in basketball -- and the fact that we were disgraceful in football at the time -- made us a laughing stock candidate because of how we were perceived at the time.

Just was pointing out that Herrion was hired to be an upgrade in the CAA...thinking was he could win a CAA champ based on his resume.

The reality is that ECU was NOT ready for prime time (CUSA). They had just finished the last two years in 7th place in the CAA (which I think had 9 teams). Herrion's teams were usually around 11th place in a 14 team CUSA. I agree that no progress was made during Herrion, however, it wouldn't have meant that Dooley would have made progress either. More likely about the same. For that reason, I don't think anyone can legitimately claim the firing was the worst in history of ECU.

John Thompson's hire was probably the worst hire ever...maybe the last volleyball coach wins that prize though.

(10-25-2016 12:27 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 11:53 AM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  Obviously I know he was hired before we went to CUSA, but the majority of his tenure was in CUSA so what does it matter and it's also completely beside the point.

When we went all sports in CUSA, there were major opportunities for us to improve in basketball and we squandered all of them while all of the future Big East teams proceeded to improve drastically. That's my point. That period was so critical and we had just as much potential to be a Big East team, but our inability to improve in basketball -- and the fact that we were disgraceful in football at the time -- made us a laughing stock candidate because of how we were perceived at the time.

Just was pointing out that Herrion was hired to be an upgrade in the CAA...thinking was he could win a CAA champ based on his resume.

The reality is that ECU was NOT ready for prime time (CUSA). They had just finished the last two years in 7th place in the CAA (which I think had 9 teams). Herrion's teams were usually around 11th place in a 14 team CUSA. I agree that no progress was made during Herrion, however, it wouldn't have meant that Dooley would have made progress either. More likely about the same. For that reason, I don't think anyone can legitimately claim the firing was the worst in history of ECU.

John Thompson's hire was probably the worst hire ever...maybe the last volleyball coach wins that prize though.

So you think they'd have finished 11th with David West on the team? I certainly don't.

(10-25-2016 12:38 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 12:27 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 11:53 AM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  Obviously I know he was hired before we went to CUSA, but the majority of his tenure was in CUSA so what does it matter and it's also completely beside the point.

When we went all sports in CUSA, there were major opportunities for us to improve in basketball and we squandered all of them while all of the future Big East teams proceeded to improve drastically. That's my point. That period was so critical and we had just as much potential to be a Big East team, but our inability to improve in basketball -- and the fact that we were disgraceful in football at the time -- made us a laughing stock candidate because of how we were perceived at the time.

Just was pointing out that Herrion was hired to be an upgrade in the CAA...thinking was he could win a CAA champ based on his resume.

The reality is that ECU was NOT ready for prime time (CUSA). They had just finished the last two years in 7th place in the CAA (which I think had 9 teams). Herrion's teams were usually around 11th place in a 14 team CUSA. I agree that no progress was made during Herrion, however, it wouldn't have meant that Dooley would have made progress either. More likely about the same. For that reason, I don't think anyone can legitimately claim the firing was the worst in history of ECU.

John Thompson's hire was probably the worst hire ever...maybe the last volleyball coach wins that prize though.

So you think they'd have finished 11th with David West on the team? I certainly don't.

David West that went to Xavier. I don't know, Xavier had Skip Prosser and Thad Matta during West's time there...better coaches than Dooley. Herrion was able to beat Dwayne Wade. That was some serious basketball being played in CUSA during that time. I know basketball (better than football), my assessment while Dooley was there was that he was a bad floor coach. His substitution patterns and simplistic plays (give the ball to Jocys and spread out) was just not getting it done.

(10-25-2016 12:27 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 11:53 AM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  Obviously I know he was hired before we went to CUSA, but the majority of his tenure was in CUSA so what does it matter and it's also completely beside the point.

When we went all sports in CUSA, there were major opportunities for us to improve in basketball and we squandered all of them while all of the future Big East teams proceeded to improve drastically. That's my point. That period was so critical and we had just as much potential to be a Big East team, but our inability to improve in basketball -- and the fact that we were disgraceful in football at the time -- made us a laughing stock candidate because of how we were perceived at the time.

Just was pointing out that Herrion was hired to be an upgrade in the CAA...thinking was he could win a CAA champ based on his resume.

The reality is that ECU was NOT ready for prime time (CUSA). They had just finished the last two years in 7th place in the CAA (which I think had 9 teams). Herrion's teams were usually around 11th place in a 14 team CUSA. I agree that no progress was made during Herrion, however, it wouldn't have meant that Dooley would have made progress either. More likely about the same. For that reason, I don't think anyone can legitimately claim the firing was the worst in history of ECU.

John Thompson's hire was probably the worst hire ever...maybe the last volleyball coach wins that prize though.

Who cares about what Joe Dooley would've done? He deserved to be fired too.

All I said was that we had a terrible basketball team from start to finish when Herrion was here, it's a statement of fact. What the hell are you even trying to argue?

Bonds was implying that if Dooley hadn't been fired, ECU basketball would have been better...because of David West.

I can buy that at the time Herrion had gotten Drexel to the the Dance and had done well post season wise and with our transition looming to CUSA from the CAA one could have argued we needed a "stronger" coach for CUSA play at the time that Dooley might not have been "the guy."

That said, Herrion could work magic inside Minges but on the road.... ZOMGZ it was ugly...I don't think our first road win in CUSA game till Year 3 @ USF. Also, Herrion managed to beat Louisville and a T10( or was it T5 both times) Marquette in Minges so he had enough good will home wins to offset his abysmal road losses.

He actually was hired again......backed out at the last moment. Presser had been called and everything. Terry Holland came out to the press and said "The search is ongoing". A few days later we hired Lebo!

(10-25-2016 10:22 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  I was looking at Dooley's bio and he was very young when he took the ECU job (only 50 now). What happened during his tenure? He was only at ECU 4 years but was above .500 during that time.



I ask because he's doing pretty well at Florida Gulf Coast right now. In ECU's next coaching search, would you look at him?

AAC basketball is composed of 3 distinct groups.

Group 1: UConn (Ollie), Temple (Dunphy), Cincinnati (Cronin), and Memphis (Smith).

Group 2: SMU (Jankovich), Tulsa (Haith), Houston (Sampson), and Tulane (Dunleavy).

Group 3: UCF (Dawkins), USF (Antigua), and ECU (Lebo).

These groups are divided in rivalry, athletic focus, and geography. I know in Group 2, the Larry Brown hire had a remarkable impact on the subsequent hires of Sampson, Haith, and Dunleavy (all accomplished coaches as well). They also fish in the same recruiting waters. SMU recruits Tulsa and of course all of them recruit in and around Texas.

The AAC mainly needs to revitalize Group 3. They have their own geography. Dawkins (a Duke grad) was a good start and Tacko gives him a great piece to build around.

But, what do USF and ECU need to do to revitalize their hoops programs?

Obviously, their focus should be in the Southeast (Florida to the Carolinas). I think UCF-USF-ECU need to play off each other like the other two AAC groups are doing. They should recruit the same waters to foster rivalry and enhance their profiles within their shared region with recruits, who talk amongst each other and may see playing against one another as a good sell.

Which brings me back to Dooley. Might his Florida ties put him in good standing for a return to ECU? What kind of coach would fit there (or at USF)?

Of course, Florida ties aren't required but we do need to raise the AAC's profile in that region, especially if we are to hold more tournaments in Orlando. I think USF's first choice, Masiello, would have thrived. Nevertheless, if the American is going to pop that region there does need to be some shared focus.

Interesting. According to this article, ECU wasn't the only job he turned down the year Lebo was hired. He also turned down the job at UNCW, which went to Buzz Peterson (after it was also turned down by Ed Conroy).
http://dubhub.blogs.starnewsonline.com/1...oe-dooley/

I'm sure ECU would be even more appealing to him today with the conference upgrade. No doubt spending all those years with Bill Self has made him a different coach.

(10-25-2016 10:22 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  But, what do USF and ECU need to do to revitalize their hoops programs?

To get better recruits, ECU probably needs UNC-Chapel Hill to get the death penalty. Duke too for good measure.

(10-26-2016 01:51 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 10:22 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  But, what do USF and ECU need to do to revitalize their hoops programs?

To get better recruits, ECU probably needs UNC-Chapel Hill to get the death penalty. Duke too for good measure.

I really think that's such a poor excuse though. Small, no name schools that are smaller and less notable than we are have become name brands in basketball while having to recruit against big-name schools in their states.

Easiest one that comes to mind? VCU.

There's just a complete lack of accountability, and multiple ADs that have been ok with futility. Until you show that consistent failure is not an option, you're going to get the same results.

Jon Rothstein
Verified account
‏@JonRothstein
No mid-major HC has impressed more than Joe Dooley over the past few days. Took both Baylor and Michigan State to the wire on the road.

(11-21-2016 10:58 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  Jon Rothstein
Verified account
‏@JonRothstein
No mid-major HC has impressed more than Joe Dooley over the past few days. Took both Baylor and Michigan State to the wire on the road.