(10-26-2016 09:40 AM)broncos1123 Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 09:14 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Age is what will discourage teams from targeting a coach like Bowden or Amato. Not that they have achieved enough at Akron at this point to receive them yet. Similarly I feel age is why no team bigger than Duquesne has tried to court Dambrot. Programs like stability. They want a coach that if they do well, they can keep for 10 years. For this reason I don't know why the MAC doesn't target more coaches like Bowden who have had prior success, but fell out of favor with P5 programs. Young coaches are either awful or coach themselves out of the MAC in 5 years.

The answer to this is easy. WMU hired a coach by the name of Bill Cubit. Prior experience at P5 programs. WMU and Cubit were then stuck in mediocrity for a long, long time and won zero bowl games.

WMU then hires a young coach by the name of PJ Fleck. Year #2 they make a bowl game. Year #3, they win a bowl game. Year #4, they are undefeated at 8-0 and ranked #20 in the nation.

Even if Fleck is gone within five years, it was worth it.

Sure it's easy to point at the success story, but what about Jinks, Carey, Leipold, Haynes, and Martin. All of these guys had no head coaching experience at the FBS level and these are the coaches that are leading the teams that are dragging the conference down. It's great when you end up with a Fleck, but the odds are much greater you will end up with someone terrible.

Edit: For the record I'm not saying everyone should go out and find themselves a Bowden. I'm just surprised that it isn't more commonly used.

No teams are "dragging the conference down."

(10-26-2016 11:17 AM)HuronDave Wrote:  No teams are "dragging the conference down."

WMU alone has as many wins as Miami, Kent, Buffalo, Bowling Green, and NIU combined. Those teams combined to go 3-17 in OOC with not 1, not 2, but 3 losses to FCS schools.

(10-26-2016 11:32 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 11:17 AM)HuronDave Wrote:  No teams are "dragging the conference down."

WMU alone has as many wins as Miami, Kent, Buffalo, Bowling Green, and NIU combined. Those teams combined to go 3-17 in OOC with not 1, not 2, but 3 losses to FCS schools.

So what about Akron from 2006 up until this season including the 3 straight 1-11 seasons?

As always, only the best teams matter in terms of national perception. Nobody pays any attention to the bottom half teams in any conference. It's actually beneficial not to have parity and instead have have 2-3 teams with 0 to 2 losses. Nobody cares about the bottom 60-70 teams in the country. They're just non-entities as season plays out even though a handful of them will get thrown into awful bowl games.

(10-26-2016 12:03 PM)RedandBlackAttack Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 11:32 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 11:17 AM)HuronDave Wrote:  No teams are "dragging the conference down."

WMU alone has as many wins as Miami, Kent, Buffalo, Bowling Green, and NIU combined. Those teams combined to go 3-17 in OOC with not 1, not 2, but 3 losses to FCS schools.

So what about Akron from 2006 up until this season including the 3 straight 1-11 seasons?

I was more so saying they are dragging this conference down this particular season, not that they all are garbage and all need kicked out. What makes it so concerning is all the FCS losses this season. Also, the MAC could be making some serious noise if NIU or BGSU were playing the way we are accustomed to seeing them play.

But back to your point sure Akron has had it's fair share of dog poop years(I'd place it at 4-5 in the last 10, not the 10 straight years you are stating but that's neither here nor there). The 3 worst years of which you can blame Ianello who was unqualified for the job in the 1st place. Which brings me back to my point. Why are MAC teams 1st instinct to hire someone that has 0 FBS head coaching experience when they can hire someone that has a proven track record at the G5 level, but bombed out at a P5 school like Purdue or Iowa State when the odds were stacked against them or the boosters had unrealistic expectations?

(10-26-2016 06:23 AM)broncos1123 Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 05:48 PM)axeme Wrote:  He seems ambitious and the MAC ceiling is way below the ceiling at most P5 schools. Money aside, it's inevitable that he will want to prove himself at a higher level. Even if WMU could and would match the pay for him and his staff that he would be offered, which isn't likely, they can't change the fact that WMU is in the MAC which has some built in limitations.

I agree with this. I think most people believe that he will leave after this year though, and I don't necessarily agree with that, unless he gets a monster offer from one of the top programs in the country, he has no reason to rush it.

I think the one thing that keeps him from staying at WMU, is that the odds of making the playoffs and winning a national championship are probably slim to none. I think for that one reason, he eventually leaves. But I think that eventually will come much later than most people expect.

That's the nice thing about being 35 in the position he's in now. Even if he waits another year or two for an upper P5 job, he'll be a head coach of a very good program at an age when many of his peers are still assistants. Better to wait for the right fit instead of a Purdue-like school where your odds of flopping, getting fired, and having to restart your career as an assistant or G5 head coach are relatively high.

What's considered a very good program?

LSU, Texas, or any other big job with an opening isn't going to hire PJ. They're going to pull a proven coach from another P5 school or the NFL.

So if PJ wants to move up he's going to have to take a mid-level job. Virginia was able to pull in BYU's coach and he had a lot more success than PJ and was probably getting paid pretty well at BYU.

If Fleck stays at WMU and has a couple more double digit winning seasons he will have a chance to jump to a pretty big job. Maybe not USC or LSU but better than Purdue. then again, that program was kinda primed for this to be an over the hump season. They will need to rebuild a little next year, and while Fleck has recruited well, they might take a few losses breaking in a new QB and replacing Davis and some key guys. The other factor is if WMU can up his asst coach salary pool and retain some stability there.

(10-27-2016 03:23 AM)pono Wrote:  If Fleck stays at WMU and has a couple more double digit winning seasons he will have a chance to jump to a pretty big job. Maybe not USC or LSU but better than Purdue. then again, that program was kinda primed for this to be an over the hump season. They will need to rebuild a little next year, and while Fleck has recruited well, they might take a few losses breaking in a new QB and replacing Davis and some key guys. The other factor is if WMU can up his asst coach salary pool and retain some stability there.

Our O-Line and stable of backs will be the best in the MAC. QB and WR's though is truly an unknown.

The problem with WMU thinking it can keep Fleck is this:

If you were offered to increase your salary 4 or 5 times right now (X the next 4 years also...)

Or:

Wait a year or so (with a new QB and your #1 WR gone) and also hope for another good year record wise with those important cogs in the machine gone, waiting for that "prestigious" P5 opening...

If it was you, which would you do? Take the for sure money right now? Or wait and *hope* next year brings similar opportunities?

I know I'd strike while the iron is hot if offered the big $$$ right now.

(10-27-2016 02:53 PM)Warhawks222 Wrote:  The problem with WMU thinking it can keep Fleck is this:

If you were offered to increase your salary 4 or 5 times right now (X the next 4 years also...)

Or:

Wait a year or so (with a new QB and your #1 WR gone) and also hope for another good year record wise with those important cogs in the machine gone, waiting for that "prestigious" P5 opening...

Fair points, but with one major omission: do you think WMU is "hoping" for another good record next year, or do you think WMU is expecting another good record next year?

As Hiller pointed out, every RB of note returns. The OL has been the key to WMU's season, and most starters return next year. This year's D is very young overall and should be even better next season.

Also, if P.J. has recruited as well as he no doubt believes he has, do you really think he expects a major dropoff going forward?

I'm not saying WMU won't have issues to address given the losses of a number of key seniors (Terrell, Davis, Taylor Moton, and Keion Adams, just to name a few) or should expect to have as good of a record next season, but WMU has a relatively low number of seniors now. With a young team oozing talent, there's no reason this team shouldn't expect to win 9-10 games+ and contend for the MAC title over the next couple of seasons.

(10-26-2016 11:32 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 11:17 AM)HuronDave Wrote:  No teams are "dragging the conference down."

WMU alone has as many wins as Miami, Kent, Buffalo, Bowling Green, and NIU combined. Those teams combined to go 3-17 in OOC with not 1, not 2, but 3 losses to FCS schools.

Ugh. This is so depressing, but... I actually feel the need to point out that BG was one of the teams did that did NOT lose to an FCS team. They should have. The FCS team was the better team that day, but some how, BG beat North Dakota by a point for their only win on the year. So, we've got that going for us...