They didn't set the bar high, they've reset the bar back to where it needs to be after the Weblo broke in in half

(10-24-2016 05:48 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 04:52 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 04:45 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  As others have said, only four coaches have achieved an Elite Eight.
Bartow in 1973 (Finch, Robinson, Keenon)
Kirk in 1985 (Lee - school record for most points & rebounds still standing over 30 years later)
Finch in 1992 (Hardaway, ‘nuff said)
Cal in 06, 07, 08 (too many to name, but we all remember who we had on the floor)

When we’ve made E8‘s in the past, we’ve had serious talent on the team -- never even close with 3-star level guys.

Really, I was just curious what people thought, because it seems like lots of folks weren’t expecting much from Tubby, but that certainly hasn’t been borne out in this thread, so far.

For a guy starting where we are now with four more years on his contract, I’d have to agree with Bluto, too, about the luck involved for an Elite Eight. A Sweet 16, though -- I’d be very disappointed if we didn’t hit that within the next two or three years. I wouldn’t be surprised by an Elite Eight, but we need a big improvement in talent level.

So 4 of the 7 coaches we have had in last 46 years have gotten lucky, some multiple times? Not buying that. Good, well coached teams advance to E8 each year. It is when a Cinderella is in E8 that it is an anomaly.

First off, it's not "some" coaches with multiple E8's, it's one. Second, you can go a lot farther back than the last 7 coaches or the last 46 years. Third, and more importantly, many more good, well coached teams get beaten every year before the Elite Eight than make it to the Elite Eight, so yeah, there's some luck involved when you get to the top end of the tournament. You have to be a whole lot better than the rest (like we were in '08) before you don't have to sweat advancing in the second weekend's games.

Why go back more than 46 years? We have only had 7 coaches that time period as I stated (nitpickers:Jones was interim coach).
There are usually a lot of high seeds in E8: "On average, three of the four #1 seeds make it to the Elite Eight each year." Not going to waste an hour researching every seed but I'm guessing it's usually 1-2 teams below 4 seeds in E8. So it's not luck-it's really good teams in E8. They get good seeds and game venues for most part and that makes it easier to advance. BTW, the Tigers of 2008 are in most top 5-10 teams that didn't win NC.

Yes, only one coach has taken us to multiple E8s but if we hadn't met Phi Slama Jama two straight years in S16, if the touch foul had not been called vs Arkansas in S16, If the AD had paid Bartow reasonable money to stay, if Cal was not thinking of KY job while losing to Missouri, etc. Yes, I know what you say about ifs but we have had more than our share.

(10-25-2016 01:32 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 05:48 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 04:52 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 04:45 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  As others have said, only four coaches have achieved an Elite Eight.
Bartow in 1973 (Finch, Robinson, Keenon)
Kirk in 1985 (Lee - school record for most points & rebounds still standing over 30 years later)
Finch in 1992 (Hardaway, ‘nuff said)
Cal in 06, 07, 08 (too many to name, but we all remember who we had on the floor)

When we’ve made E8‘s in the past, we’ve had serious talent on the team -- never even close with 3-star level guys.

Really, I was just curious what people thought, because it seems like lots of folks weren’t expecting much from Tubby, but that certainly hasn’t been borne out in this thread, so far.

For a guy starting where we are now with four more years on his contract, I’d have to agree with Bluto, too, about the luck involved for an Elite Eight. A Sweet 16, though -- I’d be very disappointed if we didn’t hit that within the next two or three years. I wouldn’t be surprised by an Elite Eight, but we need a big improvement in talent level.

So 4 of the 7 coaches we have had in last 46 years have gotten lucky, some multiple times? Not buying that. Good, well coached teams advance to E8 each year. It is when a Cinderella is in E8 that it is an anomaly.

First off, it's not "some" coaches with multiple E8's, it's one. Second, you can go a lot farther back than the last 7 coaches or the last 46 years. Third, and more importantly, many more good, well coached teams get beaten every year before the Elite Eight than make it to the Elite Eight, so yeah, there's some luck involved when you get to the top end of the tournament. You have to be a whole lot better than the rest (like we were in '08) before you don't have to sweat advancing in the second weekend's games.

Why go back more than 46 years? We have only had 7 coaches that time period as I stated (nitpickers:Jones was interim coach).
There are usually a lot of high seeds in E8: "On average, three of the four #1 seeds make it to the Elite Eight each year." Not going to waste an hour researching every seed but I'm guessing it's usually 1-2 teams below 4 seeds in E8. So it's not luck-it's really good teams in E8. They get good seeds and game venues for most part and that makes it easier to advance. BTW, the Tigers of 2008 are in most top 5-10 teams that didn't win NC.

Yes, only one coach has taken us to multiple E8s but if we hadn't met Phi Slama Jama two straight years in S16, if the touch foul had not been called vs Arkansas in S16, If the AD had paid Bartow reasonable money to stay, if Cal was not thinking of KY job while losing to Missouri, etc. Yes, I know what you say about ifs but we have had more than our share.

But none of those are bad luck? Got it.

(10-25-2016 01:34 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 01:32 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 05:48 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 04:52 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 04:45 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  As others have said, only four coaches have achieved an Elite Eight.
Bartow in 1973 (Finch, Robinson, Keenon)
Kirk in 1985 (Lee - school record for most points & rebounds still standing over 30 years later)
Finch in 1992 (Hardaway, ‘nuff said)
Cal in 06, 07, 08 (too many to name, but we all remember who we had on the floor)

When we’ve made E8‘s in the past, we’ve had serious talent on the team -- never even close with 3-star level guys.

Really, I was just curious what people thought, because it seems like lots of folks weren’t expecting much from Tubby, but that certainly hasn’t been borne out in this thread, so far.

For a guy starting where we are now with four more years on his contract, I’d have to agree with Bluto, too, about the luck involved for an Elite Eight. A Sweet 16, though -- I’d be very disappointed if we didn’t hit that within the next two or three years. I wouldn’t be surprised by an Elite Eight, but we need a big improvement in talent level.

So 4 of the 7 coaches we have had in last 46 years have gotten lucky, some multiple times? Not buying that. Good, well coached teams advance to E8 each year. It is when a Cinderella is in E8 that it is an anomaly.

First off, it's not "some" coaches with multiple E8's, it's one. Second, you can go a lot farther back than the last 7 coaches or the last 46 years. Third, and more importantly, many more good, well coached teams get beaten every year before the Elite Eight than make it to the Elite Eight, so yeah, there's some luck involved when you get to the top end of the tournament. You have to be a whole lot better than the rest (like we were in '08) before you don't have to sweat advancing in the second weekend's games.

Why go back more than 46 years? We have only had 7 coaches that time period as I stated (nitpickers:Jones was interim coach).
There are usually a lot of high seeds in E8: "On average, three of the four #1 seeds make it to the Elite Eight each year." Not going to waste an hour researching every seed but I'm guessing it's usually 1-2 teams below 4 seeds in E8. So it's not luck-it's really good teams in E8. They get good seeds and game venues for most part and that makes it easier to advance. BTW, the Tigers of 2008 are in most top 5-10 teams that didn't win NC.

Yes, only one coach has taken us to multiple E8s but if we hadn't met Phi Slama Jama two straight years in S16, if the touch foul had not been called vs Arkansas in S16, If the AD had paid Bartow reasonable money to stay, if Cal was not thinking of KY job while losing to Missouri, etc. Yes, I know what you say about ifs but we have had more than our share.

But none of those are bad luck? Got it.

Maybe luck, maybe bias against "outlaw Memphis State in 80's" (many thought this including Dana) and Coach Cal.

Got lucky and found E8 teams by bid-much more top heavy than even I thought:

http://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/E8.html

Only 4 coaches have taken us to the E8??? What?
Only 3 haven't, and that's ever since the NCAA thing was invented.
Yates (before 64 team format), Price and Pastner. That's the company our last coach keeps.

We are always pretty good, add a future NBAer or two and we are always S16.

Tubby can do that. And just maybe better.

Preparing for entry into ACC

KYS

Sources telling me Virginia headed to the BIG

(10-25-2016 02:54 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  KYS

^ tfd

From where we are today, S16 in 4 years. Bluta is right. Beyond that requires some luck, and shouldn't necessarily be a measure of success.

(10-26-2016 08:52 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  From where we are today, S16 in 4 years. Bluta is right. Beyond that requires some luck, and shouldn't necessarily be a measure of success.

Since modern era, we have AVERAGED A S16 every 3.5 years. Take out probation years-close to every 3 years.

(10-26-2016 09:51 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 08:52 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  From where we are today, S16 in 4 years. Bluta is right. Beyond that requires some luck, and shouldn't necessarily be a measure of success.

Since modern era, we have AVERAGED A S16 every 3.5 years. Take out probation years-close to every 3 years.

wish we could take out the Pastner years

(10-26-2016 09:51 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 08:52 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  From where we are today, S16 in 4 years. Bluta is right. Beyond that requires some luck, and shouldn't necessarily be a measure of success.

Since modern era, we have AVERAGED A S16 every 3.5 years. Take out probation years-close to every 3 years.

Problem is, we are in as bad as shape as we've been since Cal took over. And it took the Great Cal 6 years to crack the S16.

(10-27-2016 10:09 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 09:51 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 08:52 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  From where we are today, S16 in 4 years. Bluta is right. Beyond that requires some luck, and shouldn't necessarily be a measure of success.

Since modern era, we have AVERAGED A S16 every 3.5 years. Take out probation years-close to every 3 years.

Problem is, we are in as bad as shape as we've been since Cal took over. And it took the Great Cal 6 years to crack the S16.

Recruits have a short time span. Pastners 1st few years kids still remembered Rose and Tyreke

Now they think of Memphis as transfer U

Kids we are recruiting now were 8 and 9 in 2008