At what point does Paul Haynes get the ax? He took over Kent State coming off an eleven-win season and one overtime away from the Orange Bowl, he's had four seasons and the best he's done is four wins.

The NIU fans want Carey out and I'm inclined to agree that'd be best for the program, but will it happen? I don't know anything about his buyout or what your admin situation is over there.

Most everyone else appears to have some security. A lot of them are winning and have no chance of getting fired, and in some cases are probably going to get poached at the end of the year. Others are still in their first or second season so it's more unlikely, but is there any chance BG pulls the plug ala Southern Miss if they lose out from here?

That leaves Chuck Martin, but there's no chance he's let go with him still in year three of a big rebuilding project and having a big buyout attached to him. If next season isn't much better however, his seat will be getting toasty.

Very doubtful that KSU would buy out the last year of Haynes contract. So he will have at least one more year to show progress.

I think Lance Leipold has some security since this is just year two, but he is going to have to make some changes to his coaching staff. He needs to put some D-1 guys in his coordinator roles.

Carey is done for sure, whether its at the end of this season or next season he has shown an inability to win big games (MAC Championship and bowl games) or beat quality opponents in OOC schedule. Then this year's horrible start with a veteran-laden team cemented his future. He was handed the keys to a strong program with little qualified experience and no coaching search. We can thank previous AD Jeff Compher (now at ECU) for that.

Paul Haynes still had a difficult job. That team that won 11 games had a pretty damn good defense and leaned heavily on Dri Archer for its offensive success.

Chuck Martin should get the full five years. Miami is a rebuilding job and they haven't had much success in the last decade.

(10-23-2016 01:34 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  At what point does Paul Haynes get the ax? He took over Kent State coming off an eleven-win season and one overtime away from the Orange Bowl, he's had four seasons and the best he's done is four wins.

The NIU fans want Carey out and I'm inclined to agree that'd be best for the program, but will it happen? I don't know anything about his buyout or what your admin situation is over there.

Most everyone else appears to have some security. A lot of them are winning and have no chance of getting fired, and in some cases are probably going to get poached at the end of the year. Others are still in their first or second season so it's more unlikely, but is there any chance BG pulls the plug ala Southern Miss if they lose out from here?

That leaves Chuck Martin, but there's no chance he's let go with him still in year three of a big rebuilding project and having a big buyout attached to him. If next season isn't much better however, his seat will be getting toasty.

you have to put Kent's 11 win season in context, here's their win totals for the past 10 seasons- 6,3,4,5,5,5,11,4,2,3.

I posted this on the Kent board but it really shows how bad Kent has been under Haynes...


"Since 2013 the team has scored more than 30 points 6 times, under 10 points 14 times and been shut out 6 times. Over that time frame it is a total of 704 offensive points in 42 games or 16.8/ppg."

(10-23-2016 02:19 PM)axeme Wrote:  Very doubtful that KSU would buy out the last year of Haynes contract. So he will have at least one more year to show progress.

I find that unfortunate for you guys. Having only one year left on your contract kills recruiting and delays your rebuild another year, it costs more in the long run to keep him. It's one of the weird rationales (among others) behind why our AD kept Coop for another season.

(10-23-2016 04:40 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  you have to put Kent's 11 win season in context, here's their win totals for the past 10 seasons- 6,3,4,5,5,5,11,4,2,3.

Creighton took over EMU at much more difficult school yet has the Eagles turned around in year three. Solich took OU to a bowl in his second year after the Knorr disaster. Fleck started off with a nosedive from where WMU usually finished, but look where they are now. I get the calls for patience, but four years is typically the benchmark to see if a coach has it together or not; Kent wasn't a huge powerhouse when Haynes took over, but they were a win from bowl eligibility three straight years before their coming out party in 2012. It's not like Akron under Bowden or Miami under Martin, both of whom inherited teams worse than most FCS schools.

(10-23-2016 09:01 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(10-23-2016 02:19 PM)axeme Wrote:  Very doubtful that KSU would buy out the last year of Haynes contract. So he will have at least one more year to show progress.

I find that unfortunate for you guys. Having only one year left on your contract kills recruiting and delays your rebuild another year, it costs more in the long run to keep him. It's one of the weird rationales (among others) behind why our AD kept Coop for another season.

(10-23-2016 04:40 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  you have to put Kent's 11 win season in context, here's their win totals for the past 10 seasons- 6,3,4,5,5,5,11,4,2,3.

Creighton took over EMU at much more difficult school yet has the Eagles turned around in year three. Solich took OU to a bowl in his second year after the Knorr disaster. Fleck started off with a nosedive from where WMU usually finished, but look where they are now. I get the calls for patience, but four years is typically the benchmark to see if a coach has it together or not; Kent wasn't a huge powerhouse when Haynes took over, but they were a win from bowl eligibility three straight years before their coming out party in 2012. It's not like Akron under Bowden or Miami under Martin, both of whom inherited teams worse than most FCS schools.

The irony of the MAC's move toward more competitive salaries is they won't be able to afford to buyout the $600,000 in the final year the way a program with boosters can afford to do.

Its probably a good thing because stability outweighs a coaching change most of the time in the MAC.

Kent hasn't been terrible under Haynes. they have had solid special teams and some good defensive performances. the thing is their offense has has been so limited. The fact that Dri Archer had that great year with all the big plays magnifies how unexplosive their Haynes offenses have been. Their DC took the open job at Toledo this year. Their OC is Treadwell who was a disaster of a HC at Miami and has been equally lame as an OC at Kent. That's probably the rub. Your one good coordinator bails and the other sucks. What does that say about your HC?

Miami is at least showing signs of improvement and recruiting pretty well. I don't see a change there this year or next unless the wheels totally fall off.

Buffalo will probably stick with Leopold but I wonder. They are usually competitive but this year could be the worst team in the league. both of his recruiting classes were ranked poorly and the success of some of their other programs puts a little extra pressure on the biggest budget program to be decent. I imagine he gets another 2-3 years, but they gotta stop getting blown out.

BG is tough to call. they've lost a lot of games in which they were competitive. They've turned to a bunch of young guys at skill positions who have shown flashes. It is certainly a lousy year for them, but they lost a lot from that title squad and the staff has a case for remaking the roster into their own squad for the future. keep an eye on their recruiting. babers came in and had some good successes recruiting talent to BG. Jenks had a less regarded first class and is not locally connected. Coming off a lousy season without local recruiting connections recruiting to a place like BG which (Bias alert, yes I am a Toledo fan) lacks some stadium, town and campus luster. I question if he can get in the guys he needs to start winning. (Bias Alert #2/Documentation: one of Falcons top 2017 verbals just switched his commit to Toledo)

(10-24-2016 03:56 AM)pono Wrote:  Kent hasn't been terrible under Haynes. they have had solid special teams and some good defensive performances. the thing is their offense has has been so limited. The fact that Dri Archer had that great year with all the big plays magnifies how unexplosive their Haynes offenses have been. Their DC took the open job at Toledo this year. Their OC is Treadwell who was a disaster of a HC at Miami and has been equally lame as an OC at Kent. That's probably the rub. Your one good coordinator bails and the other sucks. What does that say about your HC?

To me it says very little about the HC and so much more about the Athletic Department that routinely pays at the bottom of the MAC, yet is led by an AD that pays himself the most in the MAC. Haynes made more money as a position coach and then a coordinator than he does as the HC at his alma mater; he came back to take this job for all the right reasons. Coaches and coordinators will always bolt for a better payday and their replacements come from shopping in the scratch and dent section, hoping to either reclaim a career or start one on the rise.

Hazell had that one glorious season where all the stars lined up and he got max production from many of the players recruited by Doug Martin. Year after year of seeing every bad break go against them resulted in one year where it seemed every break went their way. Years of finding ways to lose games in hand all of a sudden seemed to have turnovers bouncing just right and/or falling in their laps. Hazell had inherited some good players yet did nothing to backfill them nor even come come to filling obvious holes and that has crippled this program. On paper Haynes inherited an 11-win bowl team but the reality is the cupboards were empty and a hole was dug that is proving to be too much to dig out.

They started the season out with a decent showing on the road at Penn State. Then the injuries started piling up and they fell back into their old trap of finding ways to lose; losing 3 winnable conference games by 4 points each as well as a 4OT game against an FCS led by a superb RB that will be in the NFL next year. Due to the injuries they've gone through enough QBs, RBs and WR to shut down any team regardless of who is the HC. At QB they are running a most basic playbook of Wildcat left and Wildcat right, run by a converted RB/WR/Slot with tremendous heart and runs like Julien Edelman but makes Tim Tebows arm look like Tom Brady's. That they've hung in these games like they have is a miracle.

(10-24-2016 06:07 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 03:56 AM)pono Wrote:  Kent hasn't been terrible under Haynes. they have had solid special teams and some good defensive performances. the thing is their offense has has been so limited. The fact that Dri Archer had that great year with all the big plays magnifies how unexplosive their Haynes offenses have been. Their DC took the open job at Toledo this year. Their OC is Treadwell who was a disaster of a HC at Miami and has been equally lame as an OC at Kent. That's probably the rub. Your one good coordinator bails and the other sucks. What does that say about your HC?

To me it says very little about the HC and so much more about the Athletic Department that routinely pays at the bottom of the MAC, yet is led by an AD that pays himself the most in the MAC. Haynes made more money as a position coach and then a coordinator than he does as the HC at his alma mater; he came back to take this job for all the right reasons. Coaches and coordinators will always bolt for a better payday and their replacements come from shopping in the scratch and dent section, hoping to either reclaim a career or start one on the rise.

Hazell had that one glorious season where all the stars lined up and he got max production from many of the players recruited by Doug Martin. Year after year of seeing every bad break go against them resulted in one year where it seemed every break went their way. Years of finding ways to lose games in hand all of a sudden seemed to have turnovers bouncing just right and/or falling in their laps. Hazell had inherited some good players yet did nothing to backfill them nor even come come to filling obvious holes and that has crippled this program. On paper Haynes inherited an 11-win bowl team but the reality is the cupboards were empty and a hole was dug that is proving to be too much to dig out.

Of course, the AD doesn't pay himself or determine his own salary. That falls on the president, so the gripe there would be with her, but the point is taken nonetheless: overpaid relative to the rest of the department. But that is not on him. Lots of other things are on him, however.

The current ADs salary was set by the previous president. (Lefton) The AD should have acted 2 years ago when it was obvious that the FB program was in a steep downward spiral. He should have called Haynes into the office and ask "What can I do to help get the program on track?" He should question if the staff needs to be revised. I do not believe that facilities are the problem. After all, FB was to be the emphasis during that time because he sure neglected BB. Fact of the matter is that Hazell did the program no favors. He did not recruit to sustain success. I think he proofed in his next job that running a program as a long term head coach was over his head. The Peter Principal is rampant in the coaching profession.

(10-24-2016 06:07 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 03:56 AM)pono Wrote:  Kent hasn't been terrible under Haynes. they have had solid special teams and some good defensive performances. the thing is their offense has has been so limited. The fact that Dri Archer had that great year with all the big plays magnifies how unexplosive their Haynes offenses have been. Their DC took the open job at Toledo this year. Their OC is Treadwell who was a disaster of a HC at Miami and has been equally lame as an OC at Kent. That's probably the rub. Your one good coordinator bails and the other sucks. What does that say about your HC?

To me it says very little about the HC and so much more about the Athletic Department that routinely pays at the bottom of the MAC, yet is led by an AD that pays himself the most in the MAC. Haynes made more money as a position coach and then a coordinator than he does as the HC at his alma mater; he came back to take this job for all the right reasons. Coaches and coordinators will always bolt for a better payday and their replacements come from shopping in the scratch and dent section, hoping to either reclaim a career or start one on the rise.

Hazell had that one glorious season where all the stars lined up and he got max production from many of the players recruited by Doug Martin. Year after year of seeing every bad break go against them resulted in one year where it seemed every break went their way. Years of finding ways to lose games in hand all of a sudden seemed to have turnovers bouncing just right and/or falling in their laps. Hazell had inherited some good players yet did nothing to backfill them nor even come come to filling obvious holes and that has crippled this program. On paper Haynes inherited an 11-win bowl team but the reality is the cupboards were empty and a hole was dug that is proving to be too much to dig out.

They started the season out with a decent showing on the road at Penn State. Then the injuries started piling up and they fell back into their old trap of finding ways to lose; losing 3 winnable conference games by 4 points each as well as a 4OT game against an FCS led by a superb RB that will be in the NFL next year. Due to the injuries they've gone through enough QBs, RBs and WR to shut down any team regardless of who is the HC. At QB they are running a most basic playbook of Wildcat left and Wildcat right, run by a converted RB/WR/Slot with tremendous heart and runs like Julien Edelman but makes Tim Tebows arm look like Tom Brady's. That they've hung in these games like they have is a miracle.

I don't follow Kent as close as you guys but I see the angle that says Haynes has tried to succeed with limited support. However, I don't think I'm overstating the Don Treadwell factor. This guys has a habit of reducing his offenses to pee wee football style qb running teams. He parlayed his role on the staff of 1 really good Michigan St team into a HC job and was terrible. Kent brought him in as RB coach on a team with 2 proven RBs and both regressed. Then, Haynes promoted him to OC. In a year and a half Kent now runs a pee wee football offense. Yes, everyone has injuries, Kent fans may feel like they have more, but this isn't the first time treadwell has retreated into telling his most reliable ball handler to go out there and keep the ball 90% of the time instead of actually running a college offense. Haynes as the HC has some culpability in the progression that got you here. As for your old DC Brian George - yes, some coordinators move around, but he was at Kent 5 years and his previous school for 6, so he's not one of those hired guns of an OC. he has a record of stability but chose to leave Kent for another MAC job. Haynes seems like a pretty stand up guy. Doesn't strike me as a coach with enough of a real plan, system or the connections to good football minds to win at a tough job.

Yeah, I just don't think Kent has enough playmakers on the offensive side of the ball. Their wildcat system was great when they 1st introduced it and caught Akron by surprise. Now teams know what to expect and coaches have a full week to game plan how to stop it.

(10-25-2016 06:08 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Yeah, I just don't think Kent has enough playmakers on the offensive side of the ball. Their wildcat system was great when they 1st introduced it and caught Akron by surprise. Now teams know what to expect and coaches have a full week to game plan how to stop it.

Here's why I think Haynes has to go -

So far this year, Kent State is 127th out of 128 FBS teams at 305.3 ypg and 4.6 yards per play.

That is a little improvement over last year - we were 127th out of 128 then too, but only at 273 yards per game and 4.2 yards per play.

This is abysmally bad. We might have blamed last year on the Offensive Coordinator, but we hired a new one this year. We have no clue on offense, and no expectation that it's going to get better.

(10-23-2016 03:56 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  I think Lance Leipold has some security since this is just year two, but he is going to have to make some changes to his coaching staff. He needs to put some D-1 guys in his coordinator roles.

Just a dig on Leipold - yeah he won 3 D-III titles at Wisconsin-Whitewater, but how much of that was him and not the system? If he was the reason Whitewater won, you'd think they'd drop with him gone.

So while they did lose 2 last year, this year they're undefeated and ranked 2nd in D-III.

(10-25-2016 06:46 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  

(10-25-2016 06:08 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Yeah, I just don't think Kent has enough playmakers on the offensive side of the ball. Their wildcat system was great when they 1st introduced it and caught Akron by surprise. Now teams know what to expect and coaches have a full week to game plan how to stop it.

Here's why I think Haynes has to go -

So far this year, Kent State is 127th out of 128 FBS teams at 305.3 ypg and 4.6 yards per play.

That is a little improvement over last year - we were 127th out of 128 then too, but only at 273 yards per game and 4.2 yards per play.

This is abysmally bad. We might have blamed last year on the Offensive Coordinator, but we hired a new one this year. We have no clue on offense, and no expectation that it's going to get better.

Hasn't Treadwell been the OC for at least the last 2-3 years?

Treadwell was a position coach for a year or two IIRC, we didn't have to pay his full buyout since Kent hired him the season after Miami.

(10-25-2016 06:54 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  

(10-23-2016 03:56 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  I think Lance Leipold has some security since this is just year two, but he is going to have to make some changes to his coaching staff. He needs to put some D-1 guys in his coordinator roles.

Just a dig on Leipold - yeah he won 3 D-III titles at Wisconsin-Whitewater, but how much of that was him and not the system? If he was the reason Whitewater won, you'd think they'd drop with him gone.

So while they did lose 2 last year, this year they're undefeated and ranked 2nd in D-III.

The problem with his DIII experience is that (1) UW-Whitewater was already a dominant program when he took over, and (2) that program head and shoulders above almost all DIII competition in terms of resources. He may have the raw coaching chops to win, but recruiting wise it's a completely different animal than coaching at UB, an average G5 school in a northeastern state (especially when all his previous experience was in Nebraska or Wisconsin, per Wikipedia).

Treadwell in 2nd year as OC. both years 127 out of 128 FBS teams in offense. I imagine if you research his Miami offenses they were comparable. If you're really industrious and check Kent's ypc and rushing yards per game from the Hazell years and compare those to the numbers when Treadwell took over (with Dri Archer and Trayon Durham).

#FIRERODCAREY