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Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
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allthatyoucantleavebehind Offline
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Post: #1
Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/the-on...38736.html

Forward thinking. If Big 12 gets auto-bid to 8-team playoff, it could be more advantageous for UT/OU to stick around.

He hates bowl. With a passion. Wrote "Death to the BCS."

The only hold-up I see in his plan is teams and fans like free trips during the December holidays. A first-round playoff game on home campuses...seems to eliminate that (or at least take that money/power out of the conferences hands).
10-19-2016 08:31 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
Hmmm....I forgot about a playoff expansion. That would definitely solidify the ground the Big 12 is on right now and would hold the conference together.
10-19-2016 08:39 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm....I forgot about a playoff expansion. That would definitely solidify the ground the Big 12 is on right now and would hold the conference together.

yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.
10-19-2016 08:41 AM
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domer1978 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
With all these lawsuit's I doubt they're going to expand the amount of games played. Make the Conference Champ games play in's that can act like expanded play-off, highest rated champs go to the playoff after ccg. Still will give token access to the G-5, ND would have to make a choice in that scenario.
10-19-2016 08:44 AM
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domer1978 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm....I forgot about a playoff expansion. That would definitely solidify the ground the Big 12 is on right now and would hold the conference together.

yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.

I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.
10-19-2016 08:45 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm....I forgot about a playoff expansion. That would definitely solidify the ground the Big 12 is on right now and would hold the conference together.

yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.

I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).
10-19-2016 08:47 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm....I forgot about a playoff expansion. That would definitely solidify the ground the Big 12 is on right now and would hold the conference together.

yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.

I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).

correct, Notre Dame would be pretty much locked out of the playoff with no playoff expansion and a P4 consolidation
10-19-2016 08:52 AM
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domer1978 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm....I forgot about a playoff expansion. That would definitely solidify the ground the Big 12 is on right now and would hold the conference together.

yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.

I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).

correct, Notre Dame would be pretty much locked out of the playoff with no playoff expansion and a P4 consolidation

That's year's away, heck football maybe totally different by then.
10-19-2016 09:15 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 09:15 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.

I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).

correct, Notre Dame would be pretty much locked out of the playoff with no playoff expansion and a P4 consolidation

That's year's away, heck football maybe totally different by then.

It's a lot sooner than you would think. If the Big 12 was to dissipate it would start in about 4-5 years.

The question that I do have is do the Big 10 and SEC want the Big 12 to survive. I could see the answer to that question be yes.
10-19-2016 09:23 AM
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domer1978 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 09:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 09:15 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).

correct, Notre Dame would be pretty much locked out of the playoff with no playoff expansion and a P4 consolidation

That's year's away, heck football maybe totally different by then.

It's a lot sooner than you would think. If the Big 12 was to dissipate it would start in about 4-5 years.

The question that I do have is do the Big 10 and SEC want the Big 12 to survive. I could see the answer to that question be yes.

That's a eternity in today's world...
A lot can change
10-19-2016 09:27 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:31 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/the-on...38736.html

Forward thinking. If Big 12 gets auto-bid to 8-team playoff, it could be more advantageous for UT/OU to stick around.

He hates bowl. With a passion. Wrote "Death to the BCS."

The only hold-up I see in his plan is teams and fans like free trips during the December holidays. A first-round playoff game on home campuses...seems to eliminate that (or at least take that money/power out of the conferences hands).

I'm a large proponent of an 8-team playoff, although I still believe the way to do it is through the bowls (both my personal desires AND what I think could be most realistically sold to the commissioners and university presidents in the near future). In fact, it would be a hybrid of moving forward to a larger playoff while also throwing back to tradition.

(1) Quarterfinals are simple:

Rose: Big Ten vs. Pac-12
Sugar: SEC vs. at-large
Fiesta (or Cotton): Big 12 vs. at-large
Orange (or Peach): ACC vs. at-large

(2) One of the at-large spots goes to the highest ranked G5 school.

(3) Play those quarterfinal bowls on or around New Year's Day just as now.

(4) Play the *semifinals* 1 week to 10 days later at the home stadiums of the highest two remaining seeds.

(5) Play the championship game at a neutral site one week prior to the Super Bowl (which is an open weekend on the sports calendar).

This (a) keeps and arguably even enhances the traditions of the bowls, (b) lets the playoff participants to continue to receive a trip to a nice warm weather destination as a reward for their superior season (as opposed to a trip to Columbus), © makes the regular season seedings matter even in an extended playoff by granting the highest ranked semifinalists home field advantage and (d) the week before the Super Bowl is simply a great spot on the sports calendar to play the national championship game.

I'm not the first person to think of using the *semifinals* as where home fields come into play, but I believe it's an ingenious suggestion. Most 8-team playoff proposals (like Wetzel's attached) start with quarterfinals at schools' home fields, which would completely gut the bowl system. (I know Wetzel actually thinks of blowing up the bowl system as a feature instead of a bug, but the reality is that the bowls are the contractual mechanism through which the power conferences maintain their power status, so they aren't going away.) Keeping the quarterfinals within the bowls preserves that system and gives all 8 playoff participants a trip to a nice destination. The semifinals being at the home field is a counter to the travel fatigue for fans while also providing a very large incentive for teams to be as highly-ranked as possible.

Now, there are certainly practical considerations (e.g. schools with cold winters can't as easily get a stadium up and running on short notice in January), but I think this a semi-plausible way that an 8-team playoff could be sold to the commissioners and presidents.
10-19-2016 09:29 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:31 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/the-on...38736.html

Forward thinking. If Big 12 gets auto-bid to 8-team playoff, it could be more advantageous for UT/OU to stick around.

He hates bowl. With a passion. Wrote "Death to the BCS."

The only hold-up I see in his plan is teams and fans like free trips during the December holidays. A first-round playoff game on home campuses...seems to eliminate that (or at least take that money/power out of the conferences hands).

What fans get free trips? The bowls are more and more a television only thing anyway. Fewer fans are traveling to bowls and its only a matter of time before it affects the ny6 bowls too. The bowl system and CFP prostitute college football. There's no reason schools ie the NCAA shouldn't run its own post season as opposed to making private entities millions of dollars. The only reason it exists is bc it affords control to the power conferences. They'd rather make less money in the bowl system and maintain their control. 8 will happen IMO bc ultimately the fans want it and bc at least one power conference will be shut out every year and sometimes two.
10-19-2016 09:37 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 08:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm....I forgot about a playoff expansion. That would definitely solidify the ground the Big 12 is on right now and would hold the conference together.

yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.

I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).

correct, Notre Dame would be pretty much locked out of the playoff with no playoff expansion and a P4 consolidation

I would disagree.

Notre Dame will ALWAYS receive special treatment.

Why? It's actually in the interest of the Big Ten and SEC to do so. There is NO reason for the Big Ten and SEC to "force" Notre Dame into a conference... because that conference would be the ACC.

Only in college football message board land would it make sense for the 2 most powerful entities in the sport (the Big Ten and SEC) to push arguably the most valuable school in the entire sport into the arms of their DIRECT COMPETITOR. That would be a ludicrous thing to do in the business world and it would be a ludicrous thing for the Big Ten and SEC to do.

There will be no "forcing" Notre Dame to do anything. Whenever you see a proposal come up that is supposedly going to negatively impact ND's independence, you can be assured that everyone involved will somehow find some way to make sure ND is happy. We saw it the creation of the CFP itself (where ND's AD himself was chosen to announce its formation), we saw it in scheduling practices of conferences (e.g. the Pac-12 won't allow non-conference games late in the season... unless those non-conference games happen to be against Notre Dame), we saw it in bowl arrangements (with the Orange Bowl tie-in plus access to the ACC's other bowls), and we saw it in pretty much every other instance in the recent history of college football.

Notre Dame will be fine... because the Big Ten and SEC need/want them to be fine. ND going to the ACC does NOT help the Big Ten or SEC whatsoever. This is a point that fans REALLY need to understand.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2016 09:40 AM by Frank the Tank.)
10-19-2016 09:38 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
they aren't going to have slotted quarter finals Frank. I'm sorry but the SEC, Big 12, and ACC aren't going to have a scenario where the Big Ten and Pac 12 could have a year like 2009 where their champs were like 7 and 8- and get to play each other in a QF. And ND wouldn't want any part of that either. So you have 4 of 6 very powerful votes that are voting hell no to that. And TV wouldn't want it either.

Also, they aren't going to have it where the playoff is extended until the end of January. Absolutely no interest in that at all.
10-19-2016 09:39 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
I like that scenario, Frank, but it really stretches out the season too long (not to mention adding additional games). I just don't see how Presidents ratify something like that, without giving more $$$ and resources to student-athletes (who would then, officially, become year-round workers).

Personally, I think they should go to the 4-Power Conference model, with each conference championship game acting as a de-facto quarterfinal for the CFP. In that scenario, the two divisions within the conferences become mini-conferences, as - if you beat the teams within your own division/pod - you get opportunity to play in the CFP. It keeps the total amount of games down, while increasing the number of quality matchups at the power conference-level.

Unfortunately, the G5 would be locked out, but it would then allow them to create their own postseason/playoff - which networks (ESPN, FOX, etc.) would surely pay for (just not the ridiculous amounts being tossed around at the top levels).
10-19-2016 09:41 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
What reason would the P4 want to expand the playoff just to make sure the B12, a conference designed to game the system, is allowed to profit from it?
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2016 09:43 AM by 10thMountain.)
10-19-2016 09:42 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 09:38 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  yep, and it would have a definite supporter in Notre Dame. ND doesn't want the Big 12 to go away.

I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).

correct, Notre Dame would be pretty much locked out of the playoff with no playoff expansion and a P4 consolidation

I would disagree.

Notre Dame will ALWAYS receive special treatment.

Why? It's actually in the interest of the Big Ten and SEC to do so. There is NO reason for the Big Ten and SEC to "force" Notre Dame into a conference... because that conference would be the ACC.

Only in college football message board land would it make sense for the 2 most powerful entities in the sport (the Big Ten and SEC) to push arguably the most valuable school in the entire sport into the arms of their DIRECT COMPETITOR. That would be a ludicrous thing to do in the business world and it would be a ludicrous thing for the Big Ten and SEC to do.

There will be no "forcing" Notre Dame to do anything. Whenever you see a proposal come up that is supposedly going to negatively impact ND's independence, you can be assured that everyone involved will somehow find some way to make sure ND is happy. We saw it the creation of the CFP itself (where ND's AD himself was chosen to announce its formation), we saw it in scheduling practices of conferences (e.g. the Pac-12 won't allow non-conference games late in the season... unless those non-conference games happen to be against Notre Dame), we saw it in bowl arrangements (with the Orange Bowl tie-in plus access to the ACC's other bowls), and we saw it in pretty much every other instance in the recent history of college football.

Notre Dame will be fine... because the Big Ten and SEC need/want them to be fine. ND going to the ACC does NOT help the Big Ten or SEC whatsoever. This is a point that fans REALLY need to understand.

The Orange Bowl and ACC tie-ins- was all done by the ACC.

Lets see the 1st time ND goes to the playoff instead of a Big Ten team- how the Big Ten feels. If we lose the Big 12 and we're down to a P4, It's going to mean far more for those conferences to have playoff access than it even is now.
10-19-2016 09:43 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 09:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  they aren't going to have slotted quarter finals Frank. I'm sorry but the SEC, Big 12, and ACC aren't going to have a scenario where the Big Ten and Pac 12 could have a year like 2009 where their champs were like 7 and 8- and get to play each other in a QF. And ND wouldn't want any part of that either. So you have 4 of 6 very powerful votes that are voting hell no to that. And TV wouldn't want it either.

Also, they aren't going to have it where the playoff is extended until the end of January. Absolutely no interest in that at all.

Could all of your arguments end up being true? Maybe.

However, saying "absolutely no interest in that at all" is simply your opinion. Remember that the people in college football were totally and completely against even a 4-team playoff system... until they weren't anymore. To me, it's a bit naive that these university presidents that have been pretty open that college football is all about TV money are going to die on the vine with a "Football should be a one-semester sport!" argument if ESPN is offering a gazillion dollars for more playoff games in January (which happen to be MUCH more valuable than playoff games in December when TV ratings overall are always down due to the holidays). I mean, university presidents *could* choose to die on that vine, but their actions about everything with respect to TV money make me quite skeptical that their worries about two teams playing a couple of weeks later in January than now will trump a ton of TV money.

Regardless, I have no problem with your opinions and believe that they are valid, but I do have a problem with you stating that your opinions are somehow absolute concrete facts. University presidents have pretty much zero credibility on any statements about what they think is the proper postseason procedures as evidenced by the fact that they were vehemently arguing that a 4-team playoff wasn't necessary only a few weeks before they decided to approve one. You put too much stock in their public statements on this particular issue.
10-19-2016 09:51 AM
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megadrone Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 09:41 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I like that scenario, Frank, but it really stretches out the season too long (not to mention adding additional games). I just don't see how Presidents ratify something like that, without giving more $$$ and resources to student-athletes (who would then, officially, become year-round workers).

Personally, I think they should go to the 4-Power Conference model, with each conference championship game acting as a de-facto quarterfinal for the CFP. In that scenario, the two divisions within the conferences become mini-conferences, as - if you beat the teams within your own division/pod - you get opportunity to play in the CFP. It keeps the total amount of games down, while increasing the number of quality matchups at the power conference-level.

Unfortunately, the G5 would be locked out, but it would then allow them to create their own postseason/playoff - which networks (ESPN, FOX, etc.) would surely pay for (just not the ridiculous amounts being tossed around at the top levels).

It's done at the FCS level. The playoff is 24 teams and a low seed plays 4 rounds to the championship (or 5 if I miscounted).
10-19-2016 09:54 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Yahoo's Wetzel: 8-team playoff is Big 12's key to survival
(10-19-2016 09:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 09:15 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(10-19-2016 08:45 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I actually think we don't want it expanded, our AD is content as is and doesn't want changes.

The thing is, if it stays 4, and as a result the Big 12 collapses, it makes it MUCH more difficult for ND to remain indy. I would think from a ND perspective that they would want Big 12 + 8 team playoff vs no Big 12 + 4 team playoff(with 4 power conferences).

correct, Notre Dame would be pretty much locked out of the playoff with no playoff expansion and a P4 consolidation

That's year's away, heck football maybe totally different by then.

It's a lot sooner than you would think. If the Big 12 was to dissipate it would start in about 4-5 years.

The question that I do have is do the Big 10 and SEC want the Big 12 to survive. I could see the answer to that question be yes.

All of the other P5 conferences want the Big 12 to stay intact if they can't get UT into their own conference. UT and OU staying in the Big 12 is better, to them, than UT being acquired by one of their competitors.
10-19-2016 09:55 AM
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