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You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #1
You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
I understand that the Big 12 is about to hold a press conference in which they're going to announce that they could not come to an agreement on which teams to add to their conference.

However, given their track record of bizarre behavior and almost constant reversals, why would anyone think this is a permanent decision?

For all we know, they could decide next week to add six teams; they are that goofy.

Personally, I think they're making a significant mistake by not expanding. I think they are looking for a little extra money when what they really need is added stability.

I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouths to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way.

The Longhorns and the Sooners are soon going to be out the door and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. When that happens, the rest of that league needs to be operating from a position of relative strength rather than a position of abject weakness.

What happens if more than Texas and Oklahoma are picked off? What happens if the Pac-12 makes another serious run at becoming the Pac–16? What becomes of the leftovers? Remember, according to some Oklahoma sources, the last time this happened they were approximately 30 minutes from joining that conference. Do you really think it's crazy to think they might do it for real next time?

From where I sit, the only way to bolster that strength is to add strong members now. That is not me advocating for expansion for expansion's sake. There are many teams to whom I would turn up my nose. However, there are definitely teams out there that would help stabilize the conference and I think it's yet another tactical mistake on which their part to pass on the best teams and one they will surely live to regret.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2016 05:15 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
10-17-2016 05:07 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #2
RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand that the Big 12 is about to hold a press conference in which they're going to announce that they could not come to an agreement on which teams to add to their conference.

However, given their track record of bizarre behavior and almost constant reversals, why would anyone think this is a permanent decision?

For all we know, they could decide next week to add six teams; they are that goofy.

Personally, I think they're making a mistake by not expanding. I think they are looking for a little extra money when what they really need is added stability.

I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouth to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way. The Longhorns in the sooners are soon going to be out the door and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. When that happens, the rest of that league needs to be operating from a position of relative strength rather than a position of abject weakness.

From where I sit, the only way to bolster that strength is to add strong members now. That is not me advocating for expansion for expansion's sake. There are many teams to whom I would turn up my nose. However, there are definitely teams out there that would help stabilize the conference and I think it's yet another tactical mistake on which heir part to pass on them.

I used to think the bolded was true, but I believe we're seeing that those 8 other schools truly are insanely short-sighted.
10-17-2016 05:09 PM
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HawkeyeCoug Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
I'm not objective in this discussion, but this was a conference that passed on Louisville. It is way better than independence or G5 membership, but they have made real head-scratching decisions that look like strategic blunders.
10-17-2016 05:13 PM
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Scoochpooch Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand that the Big 12 is about to hold a press conference in which they're going to announce that they could not come to an agreement on which teams to add to their conference.

However, given their track record of bizarre behavior and almost constant reversals, why would anyone think this is a permanent decision?

For all we know, they could decide next week to add six teams; they are that goofy.

Personally, I think they're making a mistake by not expanding. I think they are looking for a little extra money when what they really need is added stability.

I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouth to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way. The Longhorns in the sooners are soon going to be out the door and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. When that happens, the rest of that league needs to be operating from a position of relative strength rather than a position of abject weakness.

From where I sit, the only way to bolster that strength is to add strong members now. That is not me advocating for expansion for expansion's sake. There are many teams to whom I would turn up my nose. However, there are definitely teams out there that would help stabilize the conference and I think it's yet another tactical mistake on which heir part to pass on them.

I used to think the bolded was true, but I believe we're seeing that those 8 other schools truly are insanely short-sighted.

I have a feeling that these 8 schools are going to set up briefs and use political influence over the coming years to try and keep those 2 from leaving.
10-17-2016 05:18 PM
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Groo Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:13 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  I'm not objective in this discussion, but this was a conference that passed on Louisville. It is way better than independence or G5 membership, but they have made real head-scratching decisions that look like strategic blunders.

Networks suggested WVU was the better add. You lose 3 members in a 2 year span and you get a better appreciation for the opinions of those cutting the checks. And I agree that UofL is better served in the ACC. Now you are going to say 4 members in 2 years but missouri isn't missed.
10-17-2016 05:18 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand that the Big 12 is about to hold a press conference in which they're going to announce that they could not come to an agreement on which teams to add to their conference.

However, given their track record of bizarre behavior and almost constant reversals, why would anyone think this is a permanent decision?

For all we know, they could decide next week to add six teams; they are that goofy.

Personally, I think they're making a mistake by not expanding. I think they are looking for a little extra money when what they really need is added stability.

I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouth to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way. The Longhorns in the sooners are soon going to be out the door and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. When that happens, the rest of that league needs to be operating from a position of relative strength rather than a position of abject weakness.

From where I sit, the only way to bolster that strength is to add strong members now. That is not me advocating for expansion for expansion's sake. There are many teams to whom I would turn up my nose. However, there are definitely teams out there that would help stabilize the conference and I think it's yet another tactical mistake on which heir part to pass on them.

I used to think the bolded was true, but I believe we're seeing that those 8 other schools truly are insanely short-sighted.

Texas and OU would have left tomorrow if the other 8 tried to overpower them on this.
10-17-2016 05:19 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
@jacobscourant 53m53 minutes ago
Big 12 boss Bob Bowlsby called UConn president Susan Herbst.."The word tabling was not used.They are not expanding." Benedict said.
10-17-2016 05:20 PM
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Groo Offline
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Post: #8
RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand that the Big 12 is about to hold a press conference in which they're going to announce that they could not come to an agreement on which teams to add to their conference.

However, given their track record of bizarre behavior and almost constant reversals, why would anyone think this is a permanent decision?

For all we know, they could decide next week to add six teams; they are that goofy.

Personally, I think they're making a mistake by not expanding. I think they are looking for a little extra money when what they really need is added stability.

I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouth to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way. The Longhorns in the sooners are soon going to be out the door and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. When that happens, the rest of that league needs to be operating from a position of relative strength rather than a position of abject weakness.

From where I sit, the only way to bolster that strength is to add strong members now. That is not me advocating for expansion for expansion's sake. There are many teams to whom I would turn up my nose. However, there are definitely teams out there that would help stabilize the conference and I think it's yet another tactical mistake on which heir part to pass on them.

I used to think the bolded was true, but I believe we're seeing that those 8 other schools truly are insanely short-sighted.

Texas and OU would have left tomorrow if the other 8 tried to overpower them on this.

Now OU and UT are working together? Seems a big deviation from the purported norm.
10-17-2016 05:22 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouth to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way.

I used to think the bolded was true, but I believe we're seeing that those 8 other schools truly are insanely short-sighted.

Well, then they are completely crazy and they are going to get their just desserts.

Even if they get a little extra money from the television networks, none of that addresses any of their root issues. They are going to eventually burn through that money – college football programs always do – and those same core I ssues are still going to be there – and they will be compounded by the fact that the two big fish are looking at the door...and the clock.

Incredibly stupid. Almost unfathomably so.

My favorite team, Pitt, had an offer to join that conference early on in its original expansion process and instead opted for the ACC. I thank God every day they made that wise choice.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2016 05:27 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
10-17-2016 05:23 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #10
RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand that the Big 12 is about to hold a press conference in which they're going to announce that they could not come to an agreement on which teams to add to their conference.

However, given their track record of bizarre behavior and almost constant reversals, why would anyone think this is a permanent decision?

For all we know, they could decide next week to add six teams; they are that goofy.

Personally, I think they're making a mistake by not expanding. I think they are looking for a little extra money when what they really need is added stability.

I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouth to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way. The Longhorns in the sooners are soon going to be out the door and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. When that happens, the rest of that league needs to be operating from a position of relative strength rather than a position of abject weakness.

From where I sit, the only way to bolster that strength is to add strong members now. That is not me advocating for expansion for expansion's sake. There are many teams to whom I would turn up my nose. However, there are definitely teams out there that would help stabilize the conference and I think it's yet another tactical mistake on which heir part to pass on them.

I used to think the bolded was true, but I believe we're seeing that those 8 other schools truly are insanely short-sighted.

Texas and OU would have left tomorrow if the other 8 tried to overpower them on this.

Of course the other 8 schools are not going to make a major decision over the objections of the big dogs.

Anyone who thinks otherwise can reply with a list of all of the major Big Ten decisions that were voted in by the members over the strong objections of both Ohio State and Michigan.
10-17-2016 05:30 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
ESPNU's Championship Drive is sandblasting the Big 12 conference for not expanding members. They are advocating Houston to join another P5 conference away from the Big 12. It seems ESPN would pay more if there are certain schools they wanted to add to the Big 12. A lot of schools may not want to send in an application the next time they want to expand. It is a repeat of the last time they expanded without getting Louisville. They even say that if either West Virginia or Baylor goes undefeated? They would be left out again in favor of Washington, the ACC champ, the Big 10 champ and the SEC champ. They are now hinting that the Big 12 is going the way of the WAC and the Big East in the FBS level. I could see the top G5 schools get picked off before the Big 12 does. This means only spots left would be for Oklahoma and Texas in the other P4 conference, and the other 8 will be left out and lose the Big Boy tables.
10-17-2016 05:59 PM
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Groo Offline
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Post: #12
RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  ESPNU's Championship Drive is sandblasting the Big 12 conference for not expanding members. They are advocating Houston to join another P5 conference away from the Big 12. It seems ESPN would pay more if there are certain schools they wanted to add to the Big 12. A lot of schools may not want to send in an application the next time they want to expand. It is a repeat of the last time they expanded without getting Louisville. They even say that if either West Virginia or Baylor goes undefeated? They would be left out again in favor of Washington, the ACC champ, the Big 10 champ and the SEC champ. They are now hinting that the Big 12 is going the way of the WAC and the Big East in the FBS level. I could see the top G5 schools get picked off before the Big 12 does. This means only spots left would be for Oklahoma and Texas in the other P4 conference, and the other 8 will be left out and lose the Big Boy tables.

If you aren't trolling, you surely are a nut job.
10-17-2016 06:01 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
I am not trolling. If you are not a blue blood football school in the Big 12? You would be outside looking in as part of the Have Nots. That includes Kansas.
10-17-2016 06:14 PM
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Groo Offline
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Post: #14
RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 06:14 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am not trolling. If you are not a blue blood football school in the Big 12? You would be outside looking in as part of the Have Nots. That includes Kansas.

Nut job it is then.
10-17-2016 06:17 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
As one of the 8, I want the conference to be as strong as possible short term. That's all we can control. Long term has too many WAGs, and most guesses end up in the same place.
10-17-2016 07:04 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouths to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way.

But Texas and Oklahoma have votes now, so unless those eight other members agree on two or four schools, they can agree every day of the week and twice on Sunday about the "need to expand", without getting any actual invitations issued.

Which is likely what happened. There were eight or more votes on expansion, but never eight votes on any given pair or set of four schools.
10-17-2016 07:54 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
I guess I just don't think any particular pair or quartet of schools is as important as the need to add strength to that conference.
10-17-2016 08:13 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 05:22 PM)Groo Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 05:07 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I understand that the Big 12 is about to hold a press conference in which they're going to announce that they could not come to an agreement on which teams to add to their conference.

However, given their track record of bizarre behavior and almost constant reversals, why would anyone think this is a permanent decision?

For all we know, they could decide next week to add six teams; they are that goofy.

Personally, I think they're making a mistake by not expanding. I think they are looking for a little extra money when what they really need is added stability.

I understand why from Oklahoma's and Texas' perspective, any new teams would constitute extra mouth to feed. However, there are eight other teams in that conference and they can't possibly be stupid enough to look at things that way. The Longhorns in the sooners are soon going to be out the door and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. When that happens, the rest of that league needs to be operating from a position of relative strength rather than a position of abject weakness.

From where I sit, the only way to bolster that strength is to add strong members now. That is not me advocating for expansion for expansion's sake. There are many teams to whom I would turn up my nose. However, there are definitely teams out there that would help stabilize the conference and I think it's yet another tactical mistake on which heir part to pass on them.

I used to think the bolded was true, but I believe we're seeing that those 8 other schools truly are insanely short-sighted.

Texas and OU would have left tomorrow if the other 8 tried to overpower them on this.

Now OU and UT are working together? Seems a big deviation from the purported norm.

That would be a huge change. From my understanding OU and Texas can't agree on what color a stop sign is.
10-17-2016 08:26 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
Yeah ... that conference is all kinds of jacked up.

Thank the Lord they didn't pick us when they could have. Unanswered prayers, were truly a blessing.
10-17-2016 08:34 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: You guys do know that the Big 12 is definitely expanding, right?
(10-17-2016 08:13 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I guess I just don't think any particular pair or quartet of schools is as important as the need to add strength to that conference.

Never underestimate the important of short-sighted self-interest.

Kansas State does not want to lose the visit every second year from Texas, they don't want to face increased competition from Houston in East Texas recruiting, they make a 3rd "no" vote in Houston. And, yeah, sure, in five to ten years the result may be that they regret that decision ... but this vote is being made now, the current President may well let the President in place ten years from now worry about that.

Some Big12 President doesn't want to hassle with the campus and in-state LGBT's and their allies, and joins UTexas and their TTech second vote to make a 3rd "no" vote for BYU. Doesn't really matter which one, stomach for a political fight is not a particularly abundant commodity among University Presidents in general.

Nobody in particular objects to UC, but Baylor, TCU, and OKState all object to flying their non-revenue sports teams to Florida, and so there are three votes against either of the U_Florida's as a pair with UC.

Not enough media value outstanding to add 14, and adding 12 does not yield any divisional alignment that 8 of the current 10 will vote for, especially with an inflated value being placed to shortsighed self-interest, and the result is a super-majority for "expansion" as a general concept, but no super-majorities in favor of any specific expansion options available.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2016 10:35 PM by BruceMcF.)
10-17-2016 10:32 PM
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