how about 2001 Big 12.

CCG champion was #3 Colorado.
Nebraska was #2 and went to the title game vs Miami.

2003 Big 12
Kansas St was #10 and won the CCG.
Oklahoma finished #1 BCS and went to the title game vs LSU

2001 SEC as well. Both Florida and Tennessee finished ahead of SEC champ LSU.

Hokie,

Wow - so in fact the CCG loser, which usually gets the shortest end of the stick - was the highest ranked. Thanks


Guys,

Although it still hasn't happened a ton, maybe I should've been more specific: excluding upset CCG winners.

In other words, the top ranked going into the CCG, takes care of business ..... is there any way on earth you could see the voters say "yeah .... but team X over here, that missed going to the CCG because of an early loss -- and then lately has just been crushing it -- is the true best team" ???

(10-12-2016 01:03 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Hokie,

Wow - so in fact the CCG loser, which usually gets the shortest end of the stick - was the highest ranked. Thanks


Guys,

Although it still hasn't happened a ton, maybe I should've been more specific: excluding upset CCG winners.

In other words, the top ranked going into the CCG, takes care of business ..... is there any way on earth you could see the voters say "yeah .... but team X over here, that missed going to the CCG because of an early loss -- and then lately has just been crushing it -- is the true best team" ???

I would say it is pretty inconceivable that a team that is the highest-ranked team in a conference going in to the CCG would win that CCG and yet then be ranked behind a team that was idle the day of the CCG. I mean you are team X ranked ahead of Y going in to the CCG, you *win a game* against what is at least a decent opponent while Y is idle, *and* you are now conference champ, which the committee is supposed to give great weight to, but then the committee puts you behind Y?

Inconceivable.

Well, I completely made this up -- pulled right out of my you-know-where, but ... what do you think?

Div A winner: 8-1 in conf, 6-0 in div, 8-4 overall ** ranked higher than Div B winner
Div B winner: 5-4 in conf, 5-1 in div, 8-4 overall

"Team 3": 8-1 in conf, 5-1 in div, 11-1 overall ** ranked highest in conf

Div A winner wins. But "Team 3" still remains highest ranked in conf.


Granted, this is a bit different from the CCG winner being the highest ranked going into the CCG.

(10-12-2016 01:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, I completely made this up -- pulled right out of my you-know-where, but ... what do you think?

Div A winner: 8-1 in conf, 6-0 in div, 8-4 overall ** ranked higher than Div B winner
Div B winner: 5-4 in conf, 5-1 in div, 8-4 overall

"Team 3": 8-1 in conf, 5-1 in div, 11-1 overall ** ranked highest in conf

Div A winner wins. But "Team 3" still remains highest ranked in conf.


Granted, this is a bit different from the CCG winner being the highest ranked going into the CCG.

Well yes, that is possible, in fact in that situation very likely. But as you say, that's different from the CCG winner being highest ranked going into the CCG.

Yep, fair enough.

I was inspired by stever's response to msm, which got me thinking about how the CCG loser can be screwed. Then I started wondering if the CCG winner could ever get screwed ....

Anyway.

(10-12-2016 01:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yep, fair enough.

I was inspired by stever's response to msm, which got me thinking about how the CCG loser can be screwed. Then I started wondering if the CCG winner could ever get screwed ....

Anyway.

well have to remember even if Miami won the one division at say #20 and Louisville was sitting there at #5(with Clemson still in the playoff at #4)- Miami would be the Orange Bowl rep as the Conference champion. That trumps everything.

Yes, I think I follow you:

Miami upset wins the CCG over Clemson, Clemson still makes it into CFP, Miami still ranked lower than Louisville, but Miami gets the Orange due to conf champs.

(10-12-2016 01:37 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yes, I think I follow you:

Miami upset wins the CCG over Clemson, Clemson still makes it into CFP, Miami still ranked lower than Louisville, but Miami gets the Orange due to conf champs.

yep. And actually, it wouldn't matter if Clemson did or didn't make it into the CFP- Miami would be going to the Orange Bowl no matter what. Then the higher one of Louisville or Clemson would be going to the Cotton Bowl this year. The lower one- would be Russell Athletic bowl bound(unless the Orange opponent was a Big Ten school, where then they would be Citrus Bowl bound).

Don't worry... Miami won't win the Coastal division.


Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using CSNbbs mobile app

(10-12-2016 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 11:29 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 10:09 AM)Maize Wrote:  Playoff Peach Bowl Alabama vs Washington
Playoffs Fiesta Bowl Ohio State vs Clemson

New Years Day Bowls
Rose Bowl Michigan vs Utah
Sugar Bowl Texas A&M vs Oklahoma
Orange Bowl Louisville or Miami vs Tennessee
Cotton Bowl Western Michigan vs Miami or Louisville-(Miami next loss is the ACC Title Game against Clemson)

Only thing I would change that to VT/Miami. VT remaining schedule is very favorable for them to win the Coastal Division. If they beat Miami, they will be in the driver's seat to 11-1 regular season and playing Clemson in the CCG. They won't have the played two FCS teams like UNC did last year.

Really love to see the actual contract deal with the Orange about who decides the replacement teams from the ACC. If the ACC has a say, they would love to send 11-2 Va Tech Coastal Winner to Orange as the ACC Rep, thinking the odds are 11-1 Louisville would get the Access.

From McMurphy's initial reporting-
In years when the ACC champion or another ACC team qualifies for the four-team national semifinals, then the next highest-ranked ACC team would play in the Orange Bowl...

So no, the ACC can't just do that.

Thanks!

(10-12-2016 01:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 01:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yep, fair enough.

I was inspired by stever's response to msm, which got me thinking about how the CCG loser can be screwed. Then I started wondering if the CCG winner could ever get screwed ....

Anyway.

well have to remember even if Miami won the one division at say #20 and Louisville was sitting there at #5(with Clemson still in the playoff at #4)- Miami would be the Orange Bowl rep as the Conference champion. That trumps everything.

Yes, it trumps everything when it comes to who gets an Orange Bowl bid when the Orange is not a playoff. The ACC champ goes to the OB, even if other ACC schools are ranked higher but are not in the playoffs.

But I thought Bison was talking about playoffs. When it comes to making the playoffs, ranking trumps even conference champion. That is, if somehow Clemson is the ACC champ and ranked #5 while Louisville is not the ACC champ but ranked #3, Louisville makes the playoffs while Clemson does not.

(10-13-2016 07:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 01:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 01:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yep, fair enough.

I was inspired by stever's response to msm, which got me thinking about how the CCG loser can be screwed. Then I started wondering if the CCG winner could ever get screwed ....

Anyway.

well have to remember even if Miami won the one division at say #20 and Louisville was sitting there at #5(with Clemson still in the playoff at #4)- Miami would be the Orange Bowl rep as the Conference champion. That trumps everything.

Yes, it trumps everything when it comes to who gets an Orange Bowl bid when the Orange is not a playoff. The ACC champ goes to the OB, even if other ACC schools are ranked higher but are not in the playoffs.

But I thought Bison was talking about playoffs. When it comes to making the playoffs, ranking trumps even conference champion. That is, if somehow Clemson is the ACC champ and ranked #5 while Louisville is not the ACC champ but ranked #3, Louisville makes the playoffs while Clemson does not.

Actually, I would think the committee would put Clemson ahead in the end. The committee values the 13th game. Also, part of the equation the committee determines for the top 4 is did they win their conference.
Technically, you are correct, but realistically it wouldn't happen.

Right. That was my "original" idea.

But I think it's almost impossible. It would take something unprecedented. Like say the CCG winner's entire starting offense is suspended from the team the night of the CCG win. And it would have to be that night and get out into the media the very next morning. Because I think they start ranking teams that next day...

One thing to bear in mind about the pairings for the Rose and Sugar bowls in years when they are not playoffs. Those pairings are done in accordance with the bowl-conference contracts (PAC/B1G and SEC/Big12). We all know that if any of their champions is ranked in the top 4, they go to the playoffs, and if the champion is left out of the playoffs, they go to the Rose or Sugar, regardless of ranking.

But a third factor to consider is: What about when the champion makes the playoffs? Who fills the conference's slot in the Rose and Sugar?

The PAC, B1G, and SEC base it on CFP ranking. E.g., last year, Iowa finished 2nd in the B1G and went to the Rose Bowl, but only because the CFP ranked them ahead of Ohio State. Had Ohio State been ranked ahead of Iowa, the B1G would have sent Ohio State to the Rose Bowl.

We saw that with the SEC and the Sugar last year: Florida was the official #2 team in the conference, the runner-up in the CCG. But, Ole Miss finished higher than Florida in the CFP standings, so Ole Miss got the Sugar bowl bid.

BUT, the one conference that is an exception is the Big 12. The Big 12 sends the school *it*, not the CFP, regards as the #2 team in the conference. For example, last year, TCU finished ranked #11 by the CFP, while Oklahoma State was ranked #16 by the CFP. But in the internal Big 12 standings, while both OK State and TCU had 7-2 conference records, OK State was officially second because they had the head-head tiebreaker on TCU.

So OK State, not TCU, went to the Sugar Bowl.

I decree: each P5 conf conference should put it into the next round of contracts with the Rose, Sugar, and Orange bowls that the conference should have the right to nominate which team gets to go to the contract bowl, in years when the bowl is not part of the CFP and when the conf champ is in the CFP.

And if someone is worried about the conference selecting a wildcard team that "doesn't deserve to go", then you could word it so that the conference can only select between the highest ranked team and the CCG runner-up, if those aren't the same.

Take that!

(10-14-2016 11:02 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I decree: each P5 conf conference should put it into the next round of contracts with the Rose, Sugar, and Orange bowls that the conference should have the right to nominate which team gets to go to the contract bowl, in years when the bowl is not part of the CFP and when the conf champ is in the CFP.

And if someone is worried about the conference selecting a wildcard team that "doesn't deserve to go", then you could word it so that the conference can only select between the highest ranked team and the CCG runner-up, if those aren't the same.

Take that!

Totally disagree. I mean, the 4 non playoff games should have the best teams possible. No rigging of a conferences contract bowl so they can get an extra team in there.

I mean take right now. ACC shouldn't be allowed to send say Miami to the Orange Bowl to get Louisville into the access bowl.

I can accept "... should have the best teams possible, from the contract conference".

I guess your concern is valid, but also kinda moot with only between 3 and 1 (like this year) access slots available per year. So the best teams are going to those regardless.

And I think it's a valid argument that CCG runner-up should mean something.

(10-14-2016 11:02 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I decree: each P5 conf conference should put it into the next round of contracts with the Rose, Sugar, and Orange bowls that the conference should have the right to nominate which team gets to go to the contract bowl, in years when the bowl is not part of the CFP and when the conf champ is in the CFP.

And if someone is worried about the conference selecting a wildcard team that "doesn't deserve to go", then you could word it so that the conference can only select between the highest ranked team and the CCG runner-up, if those aren't the same.

Bison, if you refer to my last post, that IS the way it currently is. For example, why is it that if the conference champ isn't in the playoffs they go to the specified contract bowl (EG, ACC champ to Orange) even if there is another team from the conference that also isn't in the playoffs but is higher ranked than the champ? Not the CFP, the conferences decided that.

And why is it that the Big 12 was able to send #16 OKST to the Sugar over #11 TCU last year? Because the Big 12, not the CFP, has the power to determine who its #2 is and who goes to the contract bowl. Now, they can't make things up on the fly to benefit themselves, which addresses SteveR's concern, it has to be a rule established before the season. Like the Big 12 decided before the season that its own standings would determine its #2, not the CFP rankings. But they do get to set that rule.

The SEC/PAC/B1G do go by the CFP rankings for determining their #2, but again, that is because *they* choose to do that, not because the CFP mandates it. It doesn't.

The only thing the CFP mandates are (a) the top 4, whoever they are, go to the playoffs, period, and (b) the highest ranked G5 champ, if not in the playoffs, goes to an Access Bowl, and © if there are any Access slots left after all of the above has happened, then the highest ranked available team in the CFP rankings fills it.