Is there a scenario where the ACC would actually offer West Virginia a home? If the Big XII completely imploded?

you could add West Virginia and someone else, say Cincinnati or Tulane and go to 16

Atlantic Division
Florida State
Clemson
Louisville
West Virginia
NC State
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Boston College

Coastal Division
Virginia Tech
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Miami
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Tulane

I doubt it. If the league won't add Connecticut, why should they add West Virginia?

(10-11-2016 03:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  I doubt it. If the league won't add Connecticut, why should they add West Virginia?

Are they really comparable though? They offer completely different strengths and weaknesses. WVU has a much better football pedigree and is one of the major rivals of Syracuse, Pitt and VT. Plus they are decent in other sports.

I understand some schools would oppose WVU but I would imagine that some schools like FSU and Clemson would be much higher on WVU than UConn.

WVU simply doesn't move the needle enough for The ACC to ever invite them. They have turned them down 2 or 3 times in the last 60 plus years. I don't see anything changing that would make them attractive to our conference. JMHO
CJ

Will West Virginia ever get serious about academics and behavioral remediation of their fans?

The two answers are hopelessly intertwined.

Also, while I like Tulane, adding them would probably be seen as an embarrassment at this point. Tulane has spent a good deal of the last decade being the 5th best team ........... in the state of Louisiana. So yeah.

(10-11-2016 03:13 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Is there a scenario where the ACC would actually offer West Virginia a home? If the Big XII completely imploded?

you could add West Virginia and someone else, say Cincinnati or Tulane and go to 16

Atlantic Division
Florida State
Clemson
Louisville
West Virginia
NC State
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Boston College

Coastal Division
Virginia Tech
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Miami
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Tulane

It's not fair to denigrate West Va. due to their mission. Their mission is to educate everyone in West Va., not to be an elite institution. That's what drives non-competitive admissions. That mission does put them at odds with most of the ACC.

The meanest, rudest, ugliest fans I've ever experience was at a Philadelphia Eagles football game. West Va is a close second, Maryland and South Carolina would be third. I would not take a child to MD, SC, or WVa, and would not go myself without a couple of buddies who can fight. Three to four rolls of quarters and several athletic socks are what you need.

PS, adding a football school to the Atlantic, while adding a soft touch to the Coastal will not fly.

The premise in the OP is that West Virginia would need a white knight to bail them out of a failed conference. It's not the job of the ACC to be any school's savior. If they wanted WVU, they could have them in a heartbeat. Clearly, they don't want them.

(10-11-2016 05:28 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 03:13 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Is there a scenario where the ACC would actually offer West Virginia a home? If the Big XII completely imploded?

you could add West Virginia and someone else, say Cincinnati or Tulane and go to 16

Atlantic Division
Florida State
Clemson
Louisville
West Virginia
NC State
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Boston College

Coastal Division
Virginia Tech
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Miami
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Tulane

It's not fair to denigrate West Va. due to their mission. Their mission is to educate everyone in West Va., not to be an elite institution. That's what drives non-competitive admissions. That mission does put them at odds with most of the ACC.

The meanest, rudest, ugliest fans I've ever experience was at a Philadelphia Eagles football game. West Va is a close second, Maryland and South Carolina would be third. I would not take a child to MD, SC, or WVa, and would not go myself without a couple of buddies who can fight. Three to four rolls of quarters and several athletic socks are what you need.

PS, adding a football school to the Atlantic, while adding a soft touch to the Coastal will not fly.

Maryland? I'm sort of surprised by that because I've been to two games there and didn't sense anything out of the ordinary but I was also not in hostile territory because Pitt wasn't playing.

Wouldn't add WVU or Cincy but I would love to trade those two for Boston College and Wake Forest.

(10-11-2016 08:02 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 05:28 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 03:13 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Is there a scenario where the ACC would actually offer West Virginia a home? If the Big XII completely imploded?

you could add West Virginia and someone else, say Cincinnati or Tulane and go to 16

Atlantic Division
Florida State
Clemson
Louisville
West Virginia
NC State
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Boston College

Coastal Division
Virginia Tech
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Miami
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Tulane

It's not fair to denigrate West Va. due to their mission. Their mission is to educate everyone in West Va., not to be an elite institution. That's what drives non-competitive admissions. That mission does put them at odds with most of the ACC.

The meanest, rudest, ugliest fans I've ever experience was at a Philadelphia Eagles football game. West Va is a close second, Maryland and South Carolina would be third. I would not take a child to MD, SC, or WVa, and would not go myself without a couple of buddies who can fight. Three to four rolls of quarters and several athletic socks are what you need.

PS, adding a football school to the Atlantic, while adding a soft touch to the Coastal will not fly.

Maryland? I'm sort of surprised by that because I've been to two games there and didn't sense anything out of the ordinary but I was also not in hostile territory because Pitt wasn't playing.

Besides yourself was there anyone else in Byrd Stadium?

Athletically, WVU is a good fit for the ACC. If you accept the premise that there is still an academic component to conference alignment/realignment, then they are not a fit at all.

I think that the issues with WVU extend beyond that, too. The perception, I think, is that their fan behavior is a microcosm of the university and to a certain degree the state as a whole and I think there would be serious push back from the ACC universities who will not want to associate with WVU.

This is all just my opinion as a conference realignment observer...no inside or depth of knowledge on the subject.

(10-11-2016 10:06 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:02 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 05:28 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 03:13 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Is there a scenario where the ACC would actually offer West Virginia a home? If the Big XII completely imploded?

you could add West Virginia and someone else, say Cincinnati or Tulane and go to 16

Atlantic Division
Florida State
Clemson
Louisville
West Virginia
NC State
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Boston College

Coastal Division
Virginia Tech
Virginia
North Carolina
Duke
Miami
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Tulane

It's not fair to denigrate West Va. due to their mission. Their mission is to educate everyone in West Va., not to be an elite institution. That's what drives non-competitive admissions. That mission does put them at odds with most of the ACC.

The meanest, rudest, ugliest fans I've ever experience was at a Philadelphia Eagles football game. West Va is a close second, Maryland and South Carolina would be third. I would not take a child to MD, SC, or WVa, and would not go myself without a couple of buddies who can fight. Three to four rolls of quarters and several athletic socks are what you need.

PS, adding a football school to the Atlantic, while adding a soft touch to the Coastal will not fly.

Maryland? I'm sort of surprised by that because I've been to two games there and didn't sense anything out of the ordinary but I was also not in hostile territory because Pitt wasn't playing.

Besides yourself was there anyone else in Byrd Stadium?

The wife surprised me with two tickets to the VT @ MD game back in 2009. What we didn't realize until we got to those seats was that they were on the MD side of the stadium while all the other fellow Hokies had filled-up the other side of Byrd Stadium.

Suffice it to say, I had a great time watching Tyrod Taylor carve up the MD Defense, but the MD Alumni were very nice and told me to relax and openly cheer for VT. I didn't want to be rude, so I let out a few yells whenever VT played well, got some back slaps from the MD Alumni, which was strange, but nice. By the start of third period, my side of the stadium was almost empty and I remember feeling bad for the MD Alumni. The MD student section had left before half time. So my one experience at Byrd stadium was actually pretty nice, but I was sitting with older adults (mid 30's to mid 50's) and everyone acted like adults.

(10-12-2016 07:30 AM)ndlutz Wrote:  Athletically, WVU is a good fit for the ACC. If you accept the premise that there is still an academic component to conference alignment/realignment, then they are not a fit at all.

I think that the issues with WVU extend beyond that, too. The perception, I think, is that their fan behavior is a microcosm of the university and to a certain degree the state as a whole and I think there would be serious push back from the ACC universities who will not want to associate with WVU.

This is all just my opinion as a conference realignment observer...no inside or depth of knowledge on the subject.

A pretty succinct statement on the perception of the WVU as viewed from the ACC fanbase. I can't really argue against it since I have experienced one or two bad experiences in WV, but you know, I've also had many positive experiences with WVU alumni and fans. I also understand the educational mission of WVU is kinda screwing them with a bad perception since I personally know some WVU Civil Engineers and they are smart people. Culturally, I think WVU found a perfect fit in the Big-12, but unfortunately it looks like the Big-12 is on borrowed time. Who knows what the future holds for WVU.

(10-12-2016 08:05 AM)JAE_VT Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 07:30 AM)ndlutz Wrote:  Athletically, WVU is a good fit for the ACC. If you accept the premise that there is still an academic component to conference alignment/realignment, then they are not a fit at all.

I think that the issues with WVU extend beyond that, too. The perception, I think, is that their fan behavior is a microcosm of the university and to a certain degree the state as a whole and I think there would be serious push back from the ACC universities who will not want to associate with WVU.

This is all just my opinion as a conference realignment observer...no inside or depth of knowledge on the subject.

A pretty succinct statement on the perception of the WVU as viewed from the ACC fanbase. I can't really argue against it since I have experienced one or two bad experiences in WV, but you know, I've also had many positive experiences with WVU alumni and fans. I also understand the educational mission of WVU is kinda screwing them with a bad perception since I personally know some WVU Civil Engineers and they are smart people. Culturally, I think WVU found a perfect fit in the Big-12, but unfortunately it looks like the Big-12 is on borrowed time. Who knows what the future holds for WVU.

I have a friend who is in his 80's who died earlier this year who is a native West Virginian. He and his wife were 2 of the classiest people that I have ever known. He was a professor of engineering at RIT and had been a professor at Howard University, his Alma-mater. Needless to say, the experience of knowing him and his family has helped me to adjust and balance my views on WV folks, as compared to what I keep hearing about them. I have come to the conclusion that every fanbase has their bad seeds. WV may be a little worse do to culture, and WVU being pretty much the only sports that their fans have to root for. Serving alcohol doesnt help.

(10-12-2016 09:02 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 08:05 AM)JAE_VT Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 07:30 AM)ndlutz Wrote:  Athletically, WVU is a good fit for the ACC. If you accept the premise that there is still an academic component to conference alignment/realignment, then they are not a fit at all.

I think that the issues with WVU extend beyond that, too. The perception, I think, is that their fan behavior is a microcosm of the university and to a certain degree the state as a whole and I think there would be serious push back from the ACC universities who will not want to associate with WVU.

This is all just my opinion as a conference realignment observer...no inside or depth of knowledge on the subject.

A pretty succinct statement on the perception of the WVU as viewed from the ACC fanbase. I can't really argue against it since I have experienced one or two bad experiences in WV, but you know, I've also had many positive experiences with WVU alumni and fans. I also understand the educational mission of WVU is kinda screwing them with a bad perception since I personally know some WVU Civil Engineers and they are smart people. Culturally, I think WVU found a perfect fit in the Big-12, but unfortunately it looks like the Big-12 is on borrowed time. Who knows what the future holds for WVU.

I have a friend who is in his 80's who died earlier this year who is a native West Virginian. He and his wife were 2 of the classiest people that I have ever known. He was a professor of engineering at RIT and had been a professor at Howard University, his Alma-mater. Needless to say, the experience of knowing him and his family has helped me to adjust and balance my views on WV folks, as compared to what I keep hearing about them. I have come to the conclusion that every fanbase has their bad seeds. WV may be a little worse do to culture, and WVU being pretty much the only sports that their fans have to root for. Serving alcohol doesnt help.

I realize this might not be the proper place to say this, but I wish to offer you my condolences on the loss of your friend. It is never easy to lose people we are close to in our lives.

The OP is based on the assumption that the Big 12 implodes. If that were to occur, the ACC should look at all available options. While WVU is a good geographic fit and has competitive programs in both football and basketball, if realignment has taught us anything it's that expanding into new markets is key. A breakup of the Big 12 would make the State of Texas open territory for each of the other four P5 conferences. The ACC would be stupid not to take a shot at the Texas Longhorns, with the ACC's best play being a Notre Dame-style arrangement. Even if that doesn't work, I would consider pursuing TCU, Houston, Baylor or even SMU to gain a foothold in Texas.

(10-12-2016 10:13 AM)orangefan Wrote:  The OP is based on the assumption that the Big 12 implodes. If that were to occur, the ACC should look at all available options. While WVU is a good geographic fit and has competitive programs in both football and basketball, if realignment has taught us anything it's that expanding into new markets is key. A breakup of the Big 12 would make the State of Texas open territory for each of the other four P5 conferences. The ACC would be stupid not to take a shot at the Texas Longhorns, with the ACC's best play being a Notre Dame-style arrangement. Even if that doesn't work, I would consider pursuing TCU, Houston, Baylor or even SMU to gain a foothold in Texas.

If the Big 12 does implode and the ACC does feel like it should expand to Texas (though I would disagree with that), I'm not sure private schools like TCU, Baylor or SMU make much sense.

Yes, SMU has the Dallas zipcode and TCU has the Ft. Worth zipcode, but I don't think those teams move the needle if the goal is to penetrate the Texas market. Same with Baylor in Waco.

The only two that make sense in that regard are Texas and Houston. Texas is the obvious headliner, but Houston is a public school in one of the largest and fastest-growing markets in the US. Houston is upwardly mobile - I don't know that TCU, Baylor and SMU really fit that category.

(10-12-2016 10:09 AM)JAE_VT Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 09:02 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 08:05 AM)JAE_VT Wrote:  

(10-12-2016 07:30 AM)ndlutz Wrote:  Athletically, WVU is a good fit for the ACC. If you accept the premise that there is still an academic component to conference alignment/realignment, then they are not a fit at all.

I think that the issues with WVU extend beyond that, too. The perception, I think, is that their fan behavior is a microcosm of the university and to a certain degree the state as a whole and I think there would be serious push back from the ACC universities who will not want to associate with WVU.

This is all just my opinion as a conference realignment observer...no inside or depth of knowledge on the subject.

A pretty succinct statement on the perception of the WVU as viewed from the ACC fanbase. I can't really argue against it since I have experienced one or two bad experiences in WV, but you know, I've also had many positive experiences with WVU alumni and fans. I also understand the educational mission of WVU is kinda screwing them with a bad perception since I personally know some WVU Civil Engineers and they are smart people. Culturally, I think WVU found a perfect fit in the Big-12, but unfortunately it looks like the Big-12 is on borrowed time. Who knows what the future holds for WVU.

I have a friend who is in his 80's who died earlier this year who is a native West Virginian. He and his wife were 2 of the classiest people that I have ever known. He was a professor of engineering at RIT and had been a professor at Howard University, his Alma-mater. Needless to say, the experience of knowing him and his family has helped me to adjust and balance my views on WV folks, as compared to what I keep hearing about them. I have come to the conclusion that every fanbase has their bad seeds. WV may be a little worse do to culture, and WVU being pretty much the only sports that their fans have to root for. Serving alcohol doesnt help.

I realize this might not be the proper place to say this, but I wish to offer you my condolences on the loss of your friend. It is never easy to lose people we are close to in our lives.

Thanks man. Thats very kind of you.

WVU is a good fit. If you're scared to go there, don't go there...it doesn't seem that complicated.

They have good rivalries with many current teams, they're a good geographic fit and they travel to bowl games. I wouldn't want to be in a conference full of West Virginias maybe, but the hand wringing and pearl clutching about those guys potentially spilling their moonshine on our new petticoats...please.

I think we could manage. No need to add a program with a history of substandard football that nobody wants to see play. You would really rather have Tulane or Uconn or SMU show up at your stadium for a game than WVU? That seems absurd to me...but granted, I come from a football school.