Atlantic Division - Coastal Division
West Virginia - Pitt
Clemson - Georgia Tech
Florida State - Miami
NC State - North Carolina
ECU - Virginia Tech
Notre Dame - Duke
Louisville - Virginia

How much stronger would the ACC be if it dropped Boston College, Wake Forest, and Syracuse. Boston College brings nothing. Wake Forest also brings nothing. Syracuse has basketball and ok football and NO baseball team in one the best baseball conferences.

Let's compare our trades:
West Virginia for Boston College
Market is smaller but fan base is much larger. Brings in Pitt's rival, creates another Mid-Atlantic school to counter Maryland. Boston College has a better media market but that is all, as West Virginia draws more for football, basketball, and baseball. Plus West Virginia is good to great at all three sports. This would give Clemson and Florida State another football peer that they thrive as they look at greener pastures in the SEC.

ECU for Wake Forest
Market the same both NC schools with ECU having a way larger fan base. ECU has better football and baseball. Basketball culture is way better at Wake however ECU in the ACC would catch up quickly and would do way better than what Wake has done in recent history. Plus ECU has almost 30,000 students and all those alumni living in the ACC territory. While Wake Forest alumni, fans, and students are all as rare in North Carolina as the venus flytrap.

Notre Dame for Syracuse
If Notre Dame wanted to stay independent for football this point is mute. However if they did and the ACC did not want to go to 16 then trading Syracuse for Notre Dame would be fine. You would lose a basketball program and that is all. As Notre Dame football would be an easy trade and baseball is already there. However I think the best would be to keep both and just add Cincinnati for 16 as seen below.

Atlantic Division - Coastal Division
West Virginia - Pitt
Clemson - Georgia Tech
Florida State - Miami
NC State - North Carolina
ECU - Virginia Tech
Notre Dame - Virginia
Louisville - Cincinnati
Syracuse - Duke

6 division games, 3 crossover division games with 1 being set rival.

The football power would be on par with any other conference in the country, would be the best basketball, and one of the best baseball conferences as well.

I'll pass

(10-06-2016 08:45 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  I'll pass

So you would rather play Boston College and Wake Forest than West Virginia and ECU?

I would love to dump Wake Forest and Boston College for Cincinnati and West Virginia. I am probably alone on that though...

hasn't BC FB been more successful than Syracuse FB during th past 10-15 years?. I'm too lazy to look it up

WVU-Pitt may create another Mid-Atlantic rivalry (and a very good one) but it doesn't counter Maryland. The Terps are the only FBS program located in the State of Maryland and the DMV area (except for Navy). It is what it is.

Pass

Sad.

I'll keep Syracuse, BC and Wake. And add East Carolina as 16th with Notre Dame joining full time (the longest of long shots), I'd be perfectly fine with it. EDIT: looking back I see Cincy also included in the OP. I'd be fine with Cincy as the 16th too. Either Cincy or ECU works for me.

But I'll take a hard pass on West Virginia. Worst visiting experience ever. And when they show up, they bring that nonsense with them. No thank you. Let Bevo deal with those clowns.

I've thought for a while the FB powers of the ACC and B12 should combine into a smaller more powerful conference.

Notre Dame (partial schedule)
West Virginia
Louisville
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Texas
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Florida State
Miami

Leave the dead weight behind.

(10-06-2016 10:15 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I've thought for a while the FB powers of the ACC and B12 should combine into a smaller more powerful conference.

Notre Dame (partial schedule)
West Virginia
Louisville
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Texas
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Florida State
Miami

Leave the dead weight behind.

I would add Duke, Kansas and NC St to make it 12 teams. Duke and KU would make it the ultimate hoops league and football right there with the SEC

(10-06-2016 08:41 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Atlantic Division - Coastal Division
West Virginia - Pitt
Clemson - Georgia Tech
Florida State - Miami
NC State - North Carolina
ECU - Virginia Tech
Notre Dame - Duke
Louisville - Virginia

How much stronger would the ACC be if it dropped Boston College, Wake Forest, and Syracuse. Boston College brings nothing. Wake Forest also brings nothing. Syracuse has basketball and ok football and NO baseball team in one the best baseball conferences.

Let's compare our trades:
West Virginia for Boston College
Market is smaller but fan base is much larger. Brings in Pitt's rival, creates another Mid-Atlantic school to counter Maryland. Boston College has a better media market but that is all, as West Virginia draws more for football, basketball, and baseball. Plus West Virginia is good to great at all three sports. This would give Clemson and Florida State another football peer that they thrive as they look at greener pastures in the SEC.

ECU for Wake Forest
Market the same both NC schools with ECU having a way larger fan base. ECU has better football and baseball. Basketball culture is way better at Wake however ECU in the ACC would catch up quickly and would do way better than what Wake has done in recent history. Plus ECU has almost 30,000 students and all those alumni living in the ACC territory. While Wake Forest alumni, fans, and students are all as rare in North Carolina as the venus flytrap.

Notre Dame for Syracuse
If Notre Dame wanted to stay independent for football this point is mute. However if they did and the ACC did not want to go to 16 then trading Syracuse for Notre Dame would be fine. You would lose a basketball program and that is all. As Notre Dame football would be an easy trade and baseball is already there. However I think the best would be to keep both and just add Cincinnati for 16 as seen below.

Atlantic Division - Coastal Division
West Virginia - Pitt
Clemson - Georgia Tech
Florida State - Miami
NC State - North Carolina
ECU - Virginia Tech
Notre Dame - Virginia
Louisville - Cincinnati
Syracuse - Duke

6 division games, 3 crossover division games with 1 being set rival.

The football power would be on par with any other conference in the country, would be the best basketball, and one of the best baseball conferences as well.

This is a phenomenally dumb post.

1) ND isn't joining the ACC as a full member in the foreseeable future.
2) Adding ECU makes #1 WAY less likely.
3) Adding ECU would hurt the conference's TV value and undermine the other 3 NC schools.
4) 2-3 Apply to UC.
5) Booting BC makes #1 even less likely.
6) Using baseball as a metric to add/subtract schools is flat dumb

I have a significantly better conference. The ACC stays put and doesn't add any school not named Penn State, ND (as a full), WVU (as a 16), or Texas.

No.

For starters, ECU would have to convince UNC, NCST, Wake, and Duke to say YES to another mouth to feed in already severely overfished recruiting waters. And then they'd need to placate FSU, Clemson, GT, and a few others that they wouldn't just recreate the NC mafia voting block. It will take nothing short of major political intervention for ECU to be in the ACC, even if geographically and somewhat culturally they belong. Also your non-FB sports are typically severely stinky. Yea yea baseball *yawn*. Everybody in the ACC has a legit baseball team. Freakin EVERYBODY.

Moving on to WVU. I think they'd already be in the ACC if not for their woeful academics and particularly their notoriously deplorable fan behavior. Whenever those two issues are cleaned up, I think it makes sense, particularly with VT and Pitt already in the ACC.

Boston College isn't going anywhere, even though they're incompetent. The Boston and New England TV markets mean too much.

Wake Forest isn't going anywhere. They facilitate much of the non-glamorous grunt work in the conference being in the back yard of the HQ. And they do well given their enrollment and resources.



All of this is void if the landscape changes to megaconferences. Then all of the above cards come into play depending on how conferences merge and if anybody competitive who is currently misaligned with their real interests (UMD, Nebraska, ECU, WVU, etc) jumps ship.

(10-06-2016 11:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 08:41 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Atlantic Division - Coastal Division
West Virginia - Pitt
Clemson - Georgia Tech
Florida State - Miami
NC State - North Carolina
ECU - Virginia Tech
Notre Dame - Duke
Louisville - Virginia

How much stronger would the ACC be if it dropped Boston College, Wake Forest, and Syracuse. Boston College brings nothing. Wake Forest also brings nothing. Syracuse has basketball and ok football and NO baseball team in one the best baseball conferences.

Let's compare our trades:
West Virginia for Boston College
Market is smaller but fan base is much larger. Brings in Pitt's rival, creates another Mid-Atlantic school to counter Maryland. Boston College has a better media market but that is all, as West Virginia draws more for football, basketball, and baseball. Plus West Virginia is good to great at all three sports. This would give Clemson and Florida State another football peer that they thrive as they look at greener pastures in the SEC.

ECU for Wake Forest
Market the same both NC schools with ECU having a way larger fan base. ECU has better football and baseball. Basketball culture is way better at Wake however ECU in the ACC would catch up quickly and would do way better than what Wake has done in recent history. Plus ECU has almost 30,000 students and all those alumni living in the ACC territory. While Wake Forest alumni, fans, and students are all as rare in North Carolina as the venus flytrap.

Notre Dame for Syracuse
If Notre Dame wanted to stay independent for football this point is mute. However if they did and the ACC did not want to go to 16 then trading Syracuse for Notre Dame would be fine. You would lose a basketball program and that is all. As Notre Dame football would be an easy trade and baseball is already there. However I think the best would be to keep both and just add Cincinnati for 16 as seen below.

Atlantic Division - Coastal Division
West Virginia - Pitt
Clemson - Georgia Tech
Florida State - Miami
NC State - North Carolina
ECU - Virginia Tech
Notre Dame - Virginia
Louisville - Cincinnati
Syracuse - Duke

6 division games, 3 crossover division games with 1 being set rival.

The football power would be on par with any other conference in the country, would be the best basketball, and one of the best baseball conferences as well.

This is a phenomenally dumb post.

1) ND isn't joining the ACC as a full member in the foreseeable future.
2) Adding ECU makes #1 WAY less likely.
3) Adding ECU would hurt the conference's TV value and undermine the other 3 NC schools.
4) 2-3 Apply to UC.
5) Booting BC makes #1 even less likely.
6) Using baseball as a metric to add/subtract schools is flat dumb

I have a significantly better conference. The ACC stays put and doesn't add any school not named Penn State, ND (as a full), WVU (as a 16), or Texas.

Agreed.

It's yet another post complaining about Wake Forest having a place in the ACC. Here's a newsflash: they're a founding member, more academically prestigious, and a richer school than all of the OP's proposed replacements (outside of Notre Dame, which isn't a "replacement" as much as it is a dream). They are NEVER going anywhere. Others in the G5 need to get over it. When you're a founding member of a successful business like the ACC, you get the spoils of a lifetime of riches whether others believe that it's "fair" or not.

At the same time, Syracuse and Boston College are also more academically prestigious and richer schools than the OP's proposed replacements sans Notre Dame AND they bring in significantly larger and more important markets. Heck, the whole point why ND found even partial ACC membership attractive in the first place is that the ACC has a lot more academically first class *private* institutions. nzmorange is correct that removing Wake Forest in order to replace it with directional public school in North Carolina would make ND even *less* likely to ever consider full membership.

If schools like East Carolina ever want a chance at the P5 (which is already an uphill battle because of directional status), then they have two options: (1) DRASTICALLY increase its academic reputation or (2) take the Louisville route and COMPLETELY blow athletic *revenue* out of the water top-to-bottom (where they are able to be a top 25 athletic revenue department even WITHOUT a top tier conference TV contract). (Note that option #2 is actually significantly much more difficult than simply winning on-the-field.) Otherwise, they're not going to get the benefit of the doubt at all with ANY P5 league (much less the ACC which already has a surplus of North Carolina-based schools). ECU needs to remember that Tulane (a) got a full membership invite to the AAC before ECU did and (b) also got invited to advance in the Big 12 discussions while ECU didn't. Academically prestigious private schools such as Syracuse, BC, Wake Forest and even Tulane are simply valued significantly higher than directional public schools in conference realignment. Those harsh facts should put ECU's place in the conference realignment pecking order into perspective. Wake Forest isn't going anywhere (and even if it were, there is nothing to indicate that it would be because the ACC wants anything to do with ECU).

(10-06-2016 09:18 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 08:45 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  I'll pass

So you would rather play Boston College and Wake Forest than West Virginia and ECU?

The ACC university presidents would absolutely 100% rather play BC and Wake Forest, and those are the people that matter.

Add WVU and Navy (football only).

This brings back the Pitt-WVU backyard brawl as an all-ACC game and adds an extra Notre Dame game to the ACC TV lineup every other year (ND-Navy)...plus you get the Army-Navy game every other year.

Bumps basketball to 16 schools and a pretty good WVU program that has Big East history with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, and Notre Dame.

From a market perspective, you help patch the hole left by Maryland's departure and add the high-profile matchups outlined above.

Others will have better opinions about divisional structure, but I would shoot for CCG deregulation to simply allow the two highest ranked teams to play for the ACC championships.

Yes let the ACC dump a Top 10 Basketball Program that plays in the largest Capacity "Arena", historic tradition laden football program, a school that won a few Nattys last year along with many other postseason deep runs in their other sports, Prestigious School located in a huge populated state that is going to redo the Dome soon to add a middling secondary state school in a mythical state called East Carolina...yeah sign me up.

Sorry for the run on....

I would just add Connecticut and Cincinnati for all sports. Keep the current 14 all sports teams, plus Notre Dame for all sports but football.

Don't wish to ditch either BC or WF. However, I would like to add both WVU and Cincy.

UC should be in a Power Conference, I agree. But the name of that conference is the Big XII, not the ACC.