(10-08-2016 04:42 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:26 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  So the greatest basketball conference ever assembled (by your words) only had one team win a national title as a member of the conference after it was all put together- UCONN.

Hold up... I distinctly remember Villanova winning an all-Big East NCAA Final one year.

(I also remember Georgetown blowing one against UNC - not that UNC wasn't good enough to win, but the Hoyas definitely blew it, too).

Let's face it:
Back in the day it was between the ACC and the Big East.
Nowadays it's just the ACC.

You are contributing to my point. You are referencing 80s Big East which did not include Louisville, Cincy, or Marquette. Now after those teams joined the BE the only one able to win a title was UCONN.

The Big East had two great periods: 1980s and 2000s to 2013

(10-08-2016 02:46 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 07:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  If the Big East was a truly better conference, it would still be in existence.
It was a one trick pony, just like the Big 12. It fell faster because basketball can't carry you further than football.

I'm sure we (the old ACC) will have to put up with listening about the MYTH of Big East basketball for a long time to come. But you guys need to understand, it was only "that" good in you own minds, not ours.
We will listen, nod, and be polite (because that is just the way we are), but we will always know the truth.

Big East basketball was no myth. Top to bottom, week in, week out it was just a better basketball conference. The old ACC was Duke and North Carolina with nothing else.

Not true. Virginia, Maryland, NC State, and Wake were all elite at one time or another. GT had some excellent teams under Cremins. FSU surprised everyone when they first joined by fielding solid teams. Really, Clemson is the only dud.

The Big East, in the "glory period" with Louisville, had a lot of dead weight. Much more than the ACC ever did.

(10-09-2016 07:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 02:46 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 07:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  If the Big East was a truly better conference, it would still be in existence.
It was a one trick pony, just like the Big 12. It fell faster because basketball can't carry you further than football.

I'm sure we (the old ACC) will have to put up with listening about the MYTH of Big East basketball for a long time to come. But you guys need to understand, it was only "that" good in you own minds, not ours.
We will listen, nod, and be polite (because that is just the way we are), but we will always know the truth.

Big East basketball was no myth. Top to bottom, week in, week out it was just a better basketball conference. The old ACC was Duke and North Carolina with nothing else.

Not true. Virginia, Maryland, NC State, and Wake were all elite at one time or another. GT had some excellent teams under Cremins. FSU surprised everyone when they first joined by fielding solid teams. Really, Clemson is the only dud.

The Big East, in the "glory period" with Louisville, had a lot of dead weight. Much more than the ACC ever did.

Not sure what the point of this post is. In the beginning is seems you want to talk about the Old ACC (including FSU), citing correctly that 7 of those 9 teams all had periods with excellent teams (which is true), that FSU had solid teams, and that Clemson was the only dud of the 9.

But then follow this up with a comment that confines the BE to a specific 8 year period. Not sure I see the relevance of using the Old ACC's entire history to talk about 7 of 9 of them wielding excellent teams since it is not as though all 7 were great at the same time frame while at the same time only looking at the narrow view of an 8-year period for the BE.

Seems to me, either a long view is taken or a short view of specific time frames is used.

Cheers,
Neil

(10-09-2016 05:32 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:42 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:26 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  So the greatest basketball conference ever assembled (by your words) only had one team win a national title as a member of the conference after it was all put together- UCONN.

Hold up... I distinctly remember Villanova winning an all-Big East NCAA Final one year.

(I also remember Georgetown blowing one against UNC - not that UNC wasn't good enough to win, but the Hoyas definitely blew it, too).

Let's face it:
Back in the day it was between the ACC and the Big East.
Nowadays it's just the ACC.

You are contributing to my point. You are referencing 80s Big East which did not include Louisville, Cincy, or Marquette. Now after those teams joined the BE the only one able to win a title was UCONN.

The Big East had two great periods: 1980s and 2000s to 2013

Agreed, although I would say specifically the 2005-06 through 2012-13. I would also add that in order to compare apples to apples the best comparison would probably be the 80s ACC vs BE. Since both leagues expanding for football took place in different decades not sure there is an equivalent period between the two conferences to compare.

Anyway, if the past two years are an indication of where this league is heading over the next 6 years, there might be a new best bb conference ever we can all agree upon.

Cheers,
Neil

(10-09-2016 10:39 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 05:32 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:42 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:26 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  So the greatest basketball conference ever assembled (by your words) only had one team win a national title as a member of the conference after it was all put together- UCONN.

Hold up... I distinctly remember Villanova winning an all-Big East NCAA Final one year.

(I also remember Georgetown blowing one against UNC - not that UNC wasn't good enough to win, but the Hoyas definitely blew it, too).

Let's face it:
Back in the day it was between the ACC and the Big East.
Nowadays it's just the ACC.

You are contributing to my point. You are referencing 80s Big East which did not include Louisville, Cincy, or Marquette. Now after those teams joined the BE the only one able to win a title was UCONN.

The Big East had two great periods: 1980s and 2000s to 2013

Agreed, although I would say specifically the 2005-06 through 2012-13. I would also add that in order to compare apples to apples the best comparison would probably be the 80s ACC vs BE. Since both leagues expanding for football took place in different decades not sure there is an equivalent period between the two conferences to compare.

Anyway, if the past two years are an indication of where this league is heading over the next 6 years, there might be a new best bb conference ever we can all agree upon.

Cheers,
Neil

Agreed!

(10-09-2016 10:28 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 07:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 02:46 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 07:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  If the Big East was a truly better conference, it would still be in existence.
It was a one trick pony, just like the Big 12. It fell faster because basketball can't carry you further than football.

I'm sure we (the old ACC) will have to put up with listening about the MYTH of Big East basketball for a long time to come. But you guys need to understand, it was only "that" good in you own minds, not ours.
We will listen, nod, and be polite (because that is just the way we are), but we will always know the truth.

Big East basketball was no myth. Top to bottom, week in, week out it was just a better basketball conference. The old ACC was Duke and North Carolina with nothing else.

Not true. Virginia, Maryland, NC State, and Wake were all elite at one time or another. GT had some excellent teams under Cremins. FSU surprised everyone when they first joined by fielding solid teams. Really, Clemson is the only dud.

The Big East, in the "glory period" with Louisville, had a lot of dead weight. Much more than the ACC ever did.

Not sure what the point of this post is. In the beginning is seems you want to talk about the Old ACC (including FSU), citing correctly that 7 of those 9 teams all had periods with excellent teams (which is true), that FSU had solid teams, and that Clemson was the only dud of the 9.

But then follow this up with a comment that confines the BE to a specific 8 year period. Not sure I see the relevance of using the Old ACC's entire history to talk about 7 of 9 of them wielding excellent teams since it is not as though all 7 were great at the same time frame while at the same time only looking at the narrow view of an 8-year period for the BE.

Seems to me, either a long view is taken or a short view of specific time frames is used.

Cheers,
Neil

The point was to prove the ACC has been more than two programs and to simultaneously point out the period of the Big East everyone is saying was the greatest included a lot of garbage teams. The ACC never had that.

I'm not trying to directly compare the conferences at any specific time, but rather I'm making two different points. I don't see the point in comparing because Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, and Louisville are in the ACC now. If somebody believes Georgetown, UConn, Cincinnati, and Marquette are better programs than UNC, Duke, Virginia, and whomever else, that's their prerogative. I think it clearly stands this is the greatest basketball conference of all time due to the addition of those programs.

(10-09-2016 10:53 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 10:39 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 05:32 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:42 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 04:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Hold up... I distinctly remember Villanova winning an all-Big East NCAA Final one year.

(I also remember Georgetown blowing one against UNC - not that UNC wasn't good enough to win, but the Hoyas definitely blew it, too).

Let's face it:
Back in the day it was between the ACC and the Big East.
Nowadays it's just the ACC.

You are contributing to my point. You are referencing 80s Big East which did not include Louisville, Cincy, or Marquette. Now after those teams joined the BE the only one able to win a title was UCONN.

The Big East had two great periods: 1980s and 2000s to 2013

Agreed, although I would say specifically the 2005-06 through 2012-13. I would also add that in order to compare apples to apples the best comparison would probably be the 80s ACC vs BE. Since both leagues expanding for football took place in different decades not sure there is an equivalent period between the two conferences to compare.

Anyway, if the past two years are an indication of where this league is heading over the next 6 years, there might be a new best bb conference ever we can all agree upon.

Cheers,
Neil

Agreed!

Agreed.

Back to the original point... Boeheim is correct

The ACC is becoming a monster...

(10-10-2016 12:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Back to the original point... Boeheim is correct

The ACC is becoming a monster...

Agree

(10-10-2016 12:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Back to the original point... Boeheim is correct

The ACC is becoming a monster...

Are we going to start this circle again?

(10-10-2016 03:15 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 12:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Back to the original point... Boeheim is correct

The ACC is becoming a monster...

Are we going to start this circle again?

Why yes, since you asked.

(10-10-2016 04:30 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 03:15 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 12:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Back to the original point... Boeheim is correct

The ACC is becoming a monster...

Are we going to start this circle again?

Why yes, since you asked.

Yeah, but it's not animated.

The BE, mid 2000 version, had tradition from top to bottom with 15 of 16 teams having Final 4 banners.

If GT & WF can return to their norm & if Miami keeps their present pace then the ACC will top the mid 2000 version of the BE.

(10-11-2016 08:34 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  The BE, mid 2000 version, had tradition from top to bottom with 15 of 16 teams having Final 4 banners.

If GT & WF can return to their norm & if Miami keeps their present pace then the ACC will top the mid 2000 version of the BE.

Not that I want to keep this thread going, but I am not sure referencing past traditions of Final 4s (only USF had never been there) doesn't equate to actual strength from top to bottom for the time frame mentioned. After all, Rutgers one and only F4 was in the 70s, DePaul's and Seton Hall's last ones were in the 80s, etc.

Just food for thought.

Cheers,
Neil

(10-11-2016 03:03 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:34 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  The BE, mid 2000 version, had tradition from top to bottom with 15 of 16 teams having Final 4 banners.

If GT & WF can return to their norm & if Miami keeps their present pace then the ACC will top the mid 2000 version of the BE.

Not that I want to keep this thread going, but I am not sure referencing past traditions of Final 4s (only USF had never been there) doesn't equate to actual strength from top to bottom for the time frame mentioned. After all, Rutgers one and only F4 was in the 70s, DePaul's and Seton Hall's last ones were in the 80s, etc.

Just food for thought.

Cheers,
Neil

The tradition helped add to the allure of the conference.

That's the problem with a circle..................it has no end!!

(10-11-2016 04:08 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 03:03 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:34 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  The BE, mid 2000 version, had tradition from top to bottom with 15 of 16 teams having Final 4 banners.

If GT & WF can return to their norm & if Miami keeps their present pace then the ACC will top the mid 2000 version of the BE.

Not that I want to keep this thread going, but I am not sure referencing past traditions of Final 4s (only USF had never been there) doesn't equate to actual strength from top to bottom for the time frame mentioned. After all, Rutgers one and only F4 was in the 70s, DePaul's and Seton Hall's last ones were in the 80s, etc.

Just food for thought.

Cheers,
Neil

The tradition helped add to the allure of the conference.

Perhaps, but does simply making a Final Four give a program tradition? And even a program with a lot of tradition like St. John's was ineffectual throughout most of the 8 year period being referenced.

Anyway, for the 8 year period in question, DePaul and Rutgers were extremely bad teams and USF, Seton Hall, Providence, and St. John's were "meh" teams. And that is 6 out of 16 programs right there.

But having said that - the reason for it was how good the Top 10 programs were then. Current ACC over the past two years is not operating at 10 deep level just yet, but tradition says it can and most likely will. And even though not quite at 10 deep level just yet, the fact that former BE NCAA tourney records are being tied or broken with basically 8 ACC programs reaching the Sweet 16 in the past two years I think demonstrates that soon there will be no question that the current edition of ACC basketball will be the best ever.

Cheers,
Neil

(10-09-2016 02:00 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 01:00 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Well, look at all the teams with National Championships. is he hintjng we need toadd Connecticut and Cincinnati ?

North Carolina 5
Duke 5
Connecticut 4
Louisville 3
North Carolina State 2
Cincinnati 2
Syracuse 1

22 titles!

I'm with you, Willkie. Let's put the band back together. Waiting for the Big XII to get its stuff together is depressing.

.........................