(04-13-2017 04:24 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 02:02 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 01:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 12:16 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(04-13-2017 11:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Ego factor or not, but the HBCUs have been think of as being not as equals to the other universities which is why they are struggling. Tennessee State might be the only one doing all right not being in an HBCU conference. I think Florida A&M wanted to shed the HBCU image to join the Sun Belt, but backed out.
Alabama State wants to go to FBS as well and tried to talk to the SBC to let them in, but with South Alabama and Troy in the conference, they will not be let in. The only HBCUs that I could see be let in are Jackson State, Tennessee State, Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman since they do not have a presence in those states.
Jackson State could fill the Mississippi hole in the SBC. Plus, Jackson State is not really considered a HBCU anymore with them enrolling white kids. They might become another Ole Miss. school with a mix race population.

Dude you are a mountain of misinformation when it comes down to HBCUs. This is like the 3rd post of yours with 1/2 truths and whole lies that I've run across. Usually there's 0 HBCU presence on this board so it goes unchecked but dude stop.

Then, why are there any HBCUs in FBS if they are supposed to be equals to the others?

No this is about the lies that you've posted on this board. Let's go through them.

1. Alabama State does not desire to go FBS. We have not had any serious discussions about moving nor have we done ANY feasibility studies.
2. When did ANYONE from FAMU say that they wanted to "shed the HBCU image"?
3. When did JSU start not being considered an HBCU? JSUs white population has always bounced between 6-7.5% which is where it still is today. School demographics doesn't determine an HBCU which is what you seem to think is the case.

Like I said previously, stop making up stuff and passing it off as fact.

The info about Alabama State came up before Georgia State was invited to the SBC. The reason is that what people posted on the news website of the local paper there said something to the fact about Alabama State was talking to SBC about membership. Unless, someone gave that reporter false information? Than, that could be the case. A lot of misinformation have been posted on legit news sites about a sports team and all that. Alabama State does have an FBS size ready stadium if they ever do go to FBS.

Why about Florida A&M? Because they were invited to join FBS and SBC in the early 2000. The first year in transition, they reversed themselves and SBC wound up with a sucky FIU and FAU teams. They would have shed off the HBCU image if they continued on to join the SBC.

Why Jackson State not be considered hardly an HBCU? The reason is they have more of white students enrolled than many of the other HBCUs which seems they are not hurting with enrollment. There are many other students who are not black or white that goes there as well. I am not looking at just the black or white issues with the schools. I am looking at all that make up the population of the campus as students.

The bolded portion is untrue.
FAMU did announce it's intention to go FBS as independent and reached out to the Sun Belt. The SBC needed members and FAMU was an intriguing option given their history, first ever I-AA/FCS national champion, 12 HBCU national titles, bunches of conference titles, lot of NFL alums.
Commissioner did the campus visit bit (always a big event because it means you've got a great shot at an invite) and he came back and informed the membership that he thought they had too many issues to be considered.
They were never voted on and never received an invitation and shortly after they got a load of negative press because their accounting was a mess and they had way over-spent their budget in their attempt to transition.
They then opted to return to the MEAC.

Simply untrue that they had a spot in FBS.

I don't think joining the Sun Belt would have shed the HBCU imagine, it would have made them a higher profile HBCU.

A couple years before the Mobile bowl started, NCAA rules required a bowl site to have 50,000 seats unless it hosted a conference champion. Ladd-Peebles has 40somethingish thousand seats.

The organizers approached the Sun Belt's FBS members (Arkansas State, Louisiana Lafayette, and Louisiana Tech at that time) about forming a football conference with Southern, Jackson State, FAMU, and I think Grambling and I think Alabama State.

The Sun Belt offered to meet with the HBCU's to see if it might be feasible and they declined but maybe that helped plant the seed with FAMU.

http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

Sounds like there is a lot going on in the background, as there is an anonymous consultant floating a position paper through the leading sports columnist in OK, as well as lobbying at the state capitol. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Combine that with NSU openly considering their options, and something may happen soon.

The state of OK is broke. The smaller OK schools were already struggling to compete against Texas schools in the Lone Star, then Arkansas schools in the GAC. A revival of the OIC would be welcomed by most, if not all of them.

UCO is in a unique spot. Though it shares a history with the regional public schools, it is now a suburban commuter school. It has 2 to 3 times the enrollment and 2 to 3 times the athletic budget of the other OK public schools. They spent just short of $10 million on athletics in 2015-16 according to DOE figures. They can compete favorably in a high-level D-II conference such as the MIAA or Lone Star (that's a stretch for the other OK schools). If there were less competition for sponsorship and fans, they would be a better candidate for FCS and D-I. But, OKC now has an NBA team, plus two nearby Big 12 schools filling football stadiums with a total of 140,000 seats. There simply isn't enough to go around for another D-I program. Plus, with the condition of state finances, the Bronchos aren't in a position to move up. However, UCO can be a top-of-the-line D-II program. There is no shame at all in that.

I know both Arkansas Tech and Central Oklahoma could fit into the lower D1. What it sounds like, UCO is spending more money on athletics than some of the lower D1 schools. They might struggle at first in the Southland, but rumors of schools like Lamar want FBS so bad from the Southland that anything could happen.

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

Quote:I know both Arkansas Tech and Central Oklahoma could fit into the lower D1. What it sounds like, UCO is spending more money on athletics than some of the lower D1 schools. They might struggle at first in the Southland, but rumors of schools like Lamar want FBS so bad from the Southland that anything could happen.

Seriously? NO! Not gonna happen. The article lacks credibility.

(04-17-2017 02:29 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

Quote:I know both Arkansas Tech and Central Oklahoma could fit into the lower D1. What it sounds like, UCO is spending more money on athletics than some of the lower D1 schools. They might struggle at first in the Southland, but rumors of schools like Lamar want FBS so bad from the Southland that anything could happen.

Seriously? NO! Not gonna happen. The article lacks credibility.

Barry is an Oklahoma sports writer. There is a lot of smoke going on in Oklahoma.

(04-17-2017 02:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 02:29 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

Quote:I know both Arkansas Tech and Central Oklahoma could fit into the lower D1. What it sounds like, UCO is spending more money on athletics than some of the lower D1 schools. They might struggle at first in the Southland, but rumors of schools like Lamar want FBS so bad from the Southland that anything could happen.

Seriously? NO! Not gonna happen. The article lacks credibility.

Barry is an Oklahoma sports writer. There is a lot of smoke going on in Oklahoma.

Doesn't matter who he is, the article has too many flaws that in reality can't be done as suggested. Please, stop promoting Arkansas Tech to D1 because it's never going to happen for many reasons.

(04-17-2017 01:55 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 02:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 02:29 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

Quote:I know both Arkansas Tech and Central Oklahoma could fit into the lower D1. What it sounds like, UCO is spending more money on athletics than some of the lower D1 schools. They might struggle at first in the Southland, but rumors of schools like Lamar want FBS so bad from the Southland that anything could happen.

Seriously? NO! Not gonna happen. The article lacks credibility.

Barry is an Oklahoma sports writer. There is a lot of smoke going on in Oklahoma.

Doesn't matter who he is, the article has too many flaws that in reality can't be done as suggested. Please, stop promoting Arkansas Tech to D1 because it's never going to happen for many reasons.

Berry Tramel is the lead sports columnist at The Oklahoman in OKC. He is knowledgeable on OU, OSU, and the OKC Thunder. He's no expert on small colleges. He printed what the consultant gave him, verbatim. This is most likely someone being paid by one or more schools. Whether all the schools would go along is anyone's guess. The public schools in OK are strapped for cash, and would love to cut the length of bus trips. I'm sure there is some support for this. If you're East Central or Southwestern, for example, this sounds awesome.

It's not like in the old NAIA days, when many states had one or more conferences. Since there is apparently a cap on the number of D-II conferences, there are a lot of moving parts involved in re-creating the OIC. They can't simply just break away tomorrow and say, "We're re-starting the Oklahoma Intercollegiate Conference!" This would involve payment of exit fees, restructuring existing conferences, and accomodating non-Oklahoma members of the GAC and Heartland conferences. I don't see these conferences cooperating, like the consultant believes with the Heartland. Easier said than done.

This jives with a discussion from last fall on the D2 message board:

http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread...k-the-oic!

(04-17-2017 04:12 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:55 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 02:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 02:29 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

Quote:I know both Arkansas Tech and Central Oklahoma could fit into the lower D1. What it sounds like, UCO is spending more money on athletics than some of the lower D1 schools. They might struggle at first in the Southland, but rumors of schools like Lamar want FBS so bad from the Southland that anything could happen.

Seriously? NO! Not gonna happen. The article lacks credibility.

Barry is an Oklahoma sports writer. There is a lot of smoke going on in Oklahoma.

Doesn't matter who he is, the article has too many flaws that in reality can't be done as suggested. Please, stop promoting Arkansas Tech to D1 because it's never going to happen for many reasons.

Berry Tramel is the lead sports columnist at The Oklahoman in OKC. He is knowledgeable on OU, OSU, and the OKC Thunder. He's no expert on small colleges. He printed what the consultant gave him, verbatim. This is most likely someone being paid by one or more schools. Whether all the schools would go along is anyone's guess. The public schools in OK are strapped for cash, and would love to cut the length of bus trips. I'm sure there is some support for this.

It's not like in the old NAIA days, when many states had one or more conferences. Since there is apparently a cap on the number of D-II conferences, there are a lot of moving parts involved in re-creating the OIC. They can't simply just break away tomorrow and say, "We're re-starting the Oklahoma Intercollegiate Conference!" This would involve payment of exit fees, restructuring existing conferences, and accomodating non-Oklahoma members of the GAC and Heartland conferences. Easier said than done.

This jives with a discussion from last fall on the D2 message board:

http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread...k-the-oic!

Both Oklahoma Panhandle State and NW Oklahoma State are more closer to several RMAC schools. Unless more Oklahoma schools in western Oklahoma joins the NAIA and 4 year ranks? Those two will still be disadvantage.

Schools location from NAIA up to FCS levels.

Eastern Oklahoma schools:
NE Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Oklahoma Wesleyan
St. Gregory's
Bacone

Western Arkansas schools:
UAFS
John Brown
Arkansas Tech
Henderson State
Ouachita Baptist
Southern Arkansas
University of the Ozarks

SW Missouri:
Missouri Southern
College of the Ozarks

SE Kansas:
Pittsburg State
Newman
Friends

NW Louisiana:
NW State Louisiana
LSU-Shreveport
Centenary

Northeast Texas:
Lamar
Texas A&M-Texarkana
Texas College
Texas-Tyler

Central Arkansas:
Harding
UAPB
UCA
Central Baptist
Hendrix
Crowley's Ridge
Philander Smith
Williams Baptist

Eastern Arkansas:
UAM
Lyon

North Central Louisiana:
Grambling

Southern Missouri:
SE Missouri State
Missouri S&T
Evangel
Drury
Hannibal-LaGrange

Central Oklahoma:
OKCU
Langston
Mid-America Christian
Science and Arts, Oklahoma
SW Christian
Cameron
Central Oklahoma
East Central Oklahoma
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
SW Oklahoma State

North Central Texas:
Midwestern State
Tarleton State
Texas A&M-commerce
Texas Wesleyan
University of Dallas
Dallas Baptist

Western Oklahoma:
Oklahoma Panhandle State
Northwestern Oklahoma State

Western Texas, northeastern New Mexico, Southeastern Colorado, Central Colorado:
West Texas A&M
Lubbock Christian
New Mexico Highlands
Colorado State-Pueblo
Adams State
Colorado College
Colorado-Colorado Springs
Colorado Christian

That is how I see it. The two schools in Oklahoma that do have issues are Oklahoma Panhandle State and NW Oklahoma State.

Move NE Oklahoma State and Central Oklahoma to the GAC and add Hendrix from D3 for a 14 football schools. See if NW Oklahoma State could join RMAC for all sport.
The non-football schools in Oklahoma should be fine where they are at.

Weatherford, Oklahoma on the west to Monticello, Arkansas to the east would be fine.
As I see this. Oklahoma Panhandle State made the bad choice dropping down to NAIA. They will be traveling even further because who is the closest school to them in NAIA?

(04-17-2017 06:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Weatherford, Oklahoma on the west to Monticello, Arkansas to the east would be fine.
As I see this. Oklahoma Panhandle State made the bad choice dropping down to NAIA. They will be traveling even further because who is the closest school to them in NAIA?

Panhandle isn't close to anything. :-)

In NAIA, they're joining the Central States Football League and the Sooner Athletic Conference. In football, their closest opponent will be either Wayland Baptist or Langston. Those schools are scattered from Arizona to Arkansas. The other sports will be more manageable (relatively), as the SAC has several schools in and around Oklahoma City.

http://opsuaggies.com/news/2016/11/21/ge...-csfl.aspx

As far as NWOSU is concerned, trips to Arkansas are preferable to trips to Colorado, South Dakota, and Utah (even from Alva). And, the RMAC will be up to 16 members after Dixie State (Utah) joins next year.

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.

(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.

In the Northern Plains, the DII Northern Sun has had some rather good regional corporate sponsors and even has a regional cable network following it. The NAIA North Star has no appreciable backing except small town newspapers.

(04-17-2017 07:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.

In the Northern Plains, the DII Northern Sun has had some rather good regional corporate sponsors and even has a regional cable network following it. The NAIA North Star has no appreciable backing except small town newspapers.

The North Star is a pretty new conference will relatively non-competitive teams. Because they don't have the money to fully fund scholarships. That would get worse if they had to finance a D2 administration, and it's unlikely that there'd be enough sponsorship to make up for it. They are small town teams, after all. If those teams started beating Northern Sun teams they'd probably get some following and sponsorships too. It's not the membership that generates revenue, it's the quality of the competition and the population of the locale. The NAIA Heart of America Conference (Missouri/Kansas) broadcasts their football games on ESPN3, the Frontier (Montana mostly) has cable coverage too. You're comparing a great D2 conference with a lower level NAIA conference. Apples & Oranges. In California, the NAIA GSAC has had their basketball conference championships on Fox Prime Ticket for several years, but the D2 PacWest doesn't.

Before the XDSU's and UXD's moved up, the former DII NCC was nearly a DI conference as far as profile. The Minnesota and one SD school had to move to the NSIC, which went up in status. A DII league gives most of its benefits to school based on publicity, not direct $'s. Would assume that is true almost anywhere. With publicity, a school has to invest.

(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.

What I am talking about is the cost of traveling.

Oklahoma Panhandle closest opponents. D2
NW Oklahoma State
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-pueblo
Adams State
Colorado-Colorado Springs
Colorado Christian
Lubbock Christian
SW Oklahoma State

NAIA:
Southwestern Kansas
???????
Northern New Mexico?

If Western Oklahoma in Altus goes from a JC to a 4 year into NAIA? They could be a close opponent. This is what I look at a budget. You may wind up spending more money on travel for your football team in NAIA than you do at D2. I would weight on what is the cheapest route to do for the school. If you do go back to NAIA? I would drop the football program to do that.

(04-17-2017 09:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.

What I am talking about is the cost of traveling.

Oklahoma Panhandle closest opponents. D2
NW Oklahoma State
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-pueblo
Adams State
Colorado-Colorado Springs
Colorado Christian
Lubbock Christian
SW Oklahoma State

NAIA:
Southwestern Kansas
???????
Northern New Mexico?

If Western Oklahoma in Altus goes from a JC to a 4 year into NAIA? They could be a close opponent. This is what I look at a budget. You may wind up spending more money on travel for your football team in NAIA than you do at D2. I would weight on what is the cheapest route to do for the school. If you do go back to NAIA? I would drop the football program to do that.

Panhandle is joining the Sooner athletic conference, Central States for football.

Here's the conference map for the Sooners. It's fairly compact. Panhandle is located pretty much square in the middle of the panhandle.

http://www.soonerathletic.org/map.php

The football distances are a bit more, but include Sooner members SAGU, Bacone, Texas Wesleyan & Wayland. Plus Langston. If you read the stuff coming out of Panhandle, they're pretty excited about joining the NAIA. They think they'll be able to compete. Might be time for NWOSU to come back.

I am looking at D1 conferences for certain sports for stuff like baseball. Here is the count I have.

American East have 7
AAC have 8 plus 9 when Wichita State joins.
A-Sun have 9 plus when the 10th in North Alabama.
Big East have 7
Big South have 10
Big 12 have 9
Big West have 9
CAA have 9
C-USA have 12
Horizon have 7
New Jersey Tech is Independent
MAAC have 11
MAC have 10 after Akron dropping it.
MEAC had 9 but now to 8 when Savannah State leaves to D2
MVC is down to 6 after Wichita State leaves.
MWC have 7 + 2 affiliates from Big Sky
NEC is at 7
OVC is at 11
PAC 12 only have 11.
Patriot is at 6
Southern Conference at 9
Southland is at 13
SWAC have 10
Summit have 6
SBC have 12
WCC at 9

Some of these conferences are in danger of losing any bid for baseball. Horizon, MVC, Summit and maybe NEC plus Southern could lose 1 or more teams in expansions. There are D2 schools that could be called up to fill in these spots. There are really no picks for baseball since each conferences could lose schools to better conferences. Big 12 could lose schools as well.

This could fit in with these sports as well.
Bowling
Tennis
LAX
men and women's soccer
Golf
Swimming and Diving
softball
Hockey

Schools at both D1 and D2 could add these sports as well. We could see a west coast LAX form between RMAC, MWC, Summit, Big Sky and PAC 12 conferences.

(04-20-2017 08:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am looking at D1 conferences for certain sports for stuff like baseball. Here is the count I have.

American East have 7
AAC have 8 plus 9 when Wichita State joins.
A-Sun have 9 plus when the 10th in North Alabama.
Big East have 7
Big South have 10
Big 12 have 9
Big West have 9
CAA have 9
C-USA have 12
Horizon have 7
New Jersey Tech is Independent
MAAC have 11
MAC have 10 after Akron dropping it.
MEAC had 9 but now to 8 when Savannah State leaves to D2
MVC is down to 6 after Wichita State leaves.
MWC have 7 + 2 affiliates from Big Sky
NEC is at 7
OVC is at 11
PAC 12 only have 11.
Patriot is at 6
Southern Conference at 9
Southland is at 13
SWAC have 10
Summit have 6
SBC have 12
WCC at 9

Some of these conferences are in danger of losing any bid for baseball. Horizon, MVC, Summit and maybe NEC plus Southern could lose 1 or more teams in expansions. There are D2 schools that could be called up to fill in these spots. There are really no picks for baseball since each conferences could lose schools to better conferences. Big 12 could lose schools as well.

This could fit in with these sports as well.
Bowling
Tennis
LAX
men and women's soccer
Golf
Swimming and Diving
softball
Hockey

Schools at both D1 and D2 could add these sports as well. We could see a west coast LAX form between RMAC, MWC, Summit, Big Sky and PAC 12 conferences.

Stop the nonsense, wrong information.

http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports...100788962/


Article about smoke that Southern Indiana in Evansville could be gunning for D1.

(04-25-2017 12:17 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports...100788962/


Article about smoke that Southern Indiana in Evansville could be gunning for D1.

The article's headline clearly states the opposite. They also say, "it’s not being discussed right now". USI may eventually make it to D1 but it's so far in the future that it doesn't come close to being labeled as 'gunning for'. Quit trying to force something that's not there.