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D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #11
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-03-2016 12:45 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Interesting. However, move from D2 to NAIA is not 'dropping' down. NAIA and D2 are pretty much the same. While some D2 school get some NCAA $$, the annual fees wipe most of that out. NAIA fees are much cheaper.
In addition, I found that the most schools in the NAIA and D2 are the same level of competition. NAIA also lets you focus on 6 sports rather than 10.

They only difference in scholarships between the D2 and NAIA is that D2 allow 36 equivalent for football and NAIA allows 24 equivalent

You are essentially correct except for some details. The NAIA's association fees are actually higher, but NAIA conference fees are much lower then NCAA conference fees, and NCAA has personnel and infrastructure requirements that make the NCAA MUCH more expensive overall.

I'm not sure about all the sports, but NAIA DI allows 11 basketball scholarships compared with NCAA D2's 10. But overall, it's essentially a side-step for someone moving between the two.
10-04-2016 04:35 PM
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MWC Tex Online
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Post: #12
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 04:35 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(10-03-2016 12:45 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Interesting. However, move from D2 to NAIA is not 'dropping' down. NAIA and D2 are pretty much the same. While some D2 school get some NCAA $$, the annual fees wipe most of that out. NAIA fees are much cheaper.
In addition, I found that the most schools in the NAIA and D2 are the same level of competition. NAIA also lets you focus on 6 sports rather than 10.

They only difference in scholarships between the D2 and NAIA is that D2 allow 36 equivalent for football and NAIA allows 24 equivalent

You are essentially correct except for some details. The NAIA's association fees are actually higher, but NAIA conference fees are much lower then NCAA conference fees, and NCAA has personnel and infrastructure requirements that make the NCAA MUCH more expensive overall.

I'm not sure about all the sports, but NAIA DI allows 11 basketball scholarships compared with NCAA D2's 10. But overall, it's essentially a side-step for someone moving between the two.

NAIA due are $7500 yearly, D2 is around $15k if I remember correctly. Conference dues I have not idea about but NAIA states average is around $9500.

http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_...=205323010
10-04-2016 04:43 PM
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #13
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-03-2016 01:07 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  D2 academics are much better. You can recruit some real sketchy academics at NAIAs. Ask Lindendwood how its been going from NAIA powerhouse to D2. They could take chances on lots of players who were D1 talent but couldn't come close academically.

Not true. GPA and test score requirements are basically the same; before this year's revisions (both associations) the NAIA's were actually higher. BUT! It used to be true, that while the requirements were higher, it was up to each school to certify that their recruits met the requirements. There was no central eligibility arbitrator like the NCAA has. Policing the policy was done via complaint, and the theory was that the coaches all knew who was an eligibility problem and it would get taken care of. The problem of course was that it wouldn't get taken care of, or if so, after damage was done. So a few years ago the NAIA started their own eligibility center (PlayNAIA.com) where all recruits has to be certified. So this problem has basically been solved.

The one big difference in academic eligibility remains in that the NCAA requires a certain core curriculum in high school. This may sound like a high minded goal, but in reality it's really an anti-home school rule. And from an NCAA D1 point of view, probably a good rule. Otherwise some dummy with mad basketball skills would avoid academic work by going the home school route and get recruited with fictitious straight A's. Athletes may do that to go to UNC, but not to Mid-America Christian University.

There are some of us who thing that Lindenwood's thought process was "yikes, we have to prove they're smart enough for college now. It's going to look real bad if we can't get the same level of recruits now. We can probably cover our tracks by going D2, so the comparisons will be harder to make". And I would add that the number of schools who pulled these sorts of shenanigans was very small, and everyone knew who they were.
10-04-2016 04:47 PM
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Post: #14
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 04:56 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Actually, Oklahoma Panhandle State was actually a duel membership in both NAIA and NCAA.

Close, but not quite true. Dual membership isn't allowed. What Panhandle did, as an NCAA D2 independent, was join the Central States Football League, which is an NAIA conference. As an affiliate. They played a full CSFL schedule but since they weren't NAIA members they were ineligible for NAIA post season play. IIRC, Quincy was a similar affiliate to the Mid-South conference for football as well, for a while.
10-04-2016 04:51 PM
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Post: #15
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 07:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Enrollment doesn't matter, competitively both are quite equal.

Yep. Marian (2015 NAIA Champ) beat U Indy, who lost in the D2 first round last year. Doesn't mean the NAIA is better, but they are in the same ballpark.
10-04-2016 04:53 PM
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Post: #16
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 02:57 PM)Cave_Johnson Wrote:  This is true. As an example Lewis Clark State College in Idaho is a huge baseball power at the NAIA level due in part to the fact that their academic requirements are basically nonexistent. Even for an NAIA school. They regularly get players with D1 talent who flunk out or get kicked out of big name baseball programs. That's not to say they don't have excellent coaching as well, but the talent gap is easy to see when they play schools like College of Idaho (a private NAIA school) or British Columbia that have fairly strict academic requirements.

It would definitely be harder for them to compete without their lower standards for athletes. That said, they do regularly beat up on D2 schools like Central Washington and generally compete very well against schools like Gonzaga, WSU, and UW. In baseball at least.

Again, NOT true, at least since PlayNAIA came into being. And LCSC won the NAIA world series again this year. Players go there because they win, it's a great baseball town, they have a fantastic facility, and their players get drafted and make it to the pros on a regular basis.
10-04-2016 04:56 PM
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RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 03:37 PM)fsquid Wrote:  THere is actually a movement of D2 schools going down to D3. Pfieffer, St. Anselm, Brevard come to mind.


Malone is moving down to D3. They have the largest football stadium in D2.

Dean College moved up from NJCAA to D3 this year.
10-04-2016 04:58 PM
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #18
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 04:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  NAIA due are $7500 yearly, D2 is around $15k if I remember correctly. Conference dues I have not idea about but NAIA states average is around $9500.

http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_...=205323010

Thanks, I would be interested in knowing your source. I had been told that D2 fees were around $1000 (with a LOT of expenses elsewhere). When the recent wave of NAIA to D2 migration started a lot of administrators were pumping the simplistic view that NCAA was cheaper simply because their fees were cheaper. But that may have changed...
10-04-2016 04:59 PM
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Post: #19
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 04:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(10-04-2016 03:37 PM)fsquid Wrote:  THere is actually a movement of D2 schools going down to D3. Pfieffer, St. Anselm, Brevard come to mind.


Malone is moving down to D3. They have the largest football stadium in D2.

Dean College moved up from NJCAA to D3 this year.

Source please. They considered it before the G-MAC solidified itself with all those schools from the GLIAC. So I don't believe they are going anywhere. They also considered going back to the NAIA. But the G-MAC is pretty solid now.
10-04-2016 05:02 PM
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Post: #20
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(10-04-2016 05:02 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(10-04-2016 04:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(10-04-2016 03:37 PM)fsquid Wrote:  THere is actually a movement of D2 schools going down to D3. Pfieffer, St. Anselm, Brevard come to mind.


Malone is moving down to D3. They have the largest football stadium in D2.

Dean College moved up from NJCAA to D3 this year.

Source please. They considered it before the G-MAC solidified itself with all those schools from the GLIAC. So I don't believe they are going anywhere. They also considered going back to the NAIA. But the G-MAC is pretty solid now.

Last year they said they were staying in DII

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/2015050.../150509734

Speculation over the Pioneers’ current NCAA status ended recently when the university’s board of trustees unanimously approved Malone’s decision to stay in Division II. The university was considering a drop to NCAA Division III.
10-04-2016 05:48 PM
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