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D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #131
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.
04-17-2017 07:10 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #132
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.

In the Northern Plains, the DII Northern Sun has had some rather good regional corporate sponsors and even has a regional cable network following it. The NAIA North Star has no appreciable backing except small town newspapers.
04-17-2017 07:45 PM
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #133
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(04-17-2017 07:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.

In the Northern Plains, the DII Northern Sun has had some rather good regional corporate sponsors and even has a regional cable network following it. The NAIA North Star has no appreciable backing except small town newspapers.

The North Star is a pretty new conference will relatively non-competitive teams. Because they don't have the money to fully fund scholarships. That would get worse if they had to finance a D2 administration, and it's unlikely that there'd be enough sponsorship to make up for it. They are small town teams, after all. If those teams started beating Northern Sun teams they'd probably get some following and sponsorships too. It's not the membership that generates revenue, it's the quality of the competition and the population of the locale. The NAIA Heart of America Conference (Missouri/Kansas) broadcasts their football games on ESPN3, the Frontier (Montana mostly) has cable coverage too. You're comparing a great D2 conference with a lower level NAIA conference. Apples & Oranges. In California, the NAIA GSAC has had their basketball conference championships on Fox Prime Ticket for several years, but the D2 PacWest doesn't.
04-17-2017 08:54 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #134
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
Before the XDSU's and UXD's moved up, the former DII NCC was nearly a DI conference as far as profile. The Minnesota and one SD school had to move to the NSIC, which went up in status. A DII league gives most of its benefits to school based on publicity, not direct $'s. Would assume that is true almost anywhere. With publicity, a school has to invest.
04-17-2017 09:14 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #135
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.



What I am talking about is the cost of traveling.

Oklahoma Panhandle closest opponents. D2
NW Oklahoma State
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-pueblo
Adams State
Colorado-Colorado Springs
Colorado Christian
Lubbock Christian
SW Oklahoma State

NAIA:
Southwestern Kansas
???????
Northern New Mexico?

If Western Oklahoma in Altus goes from a JC to a 4 year into NAIA? They could be a close opponent. This is what I look at a budget. You may wind up spending more money on travel for your football team in NAIA than you do at D2. I would weight on what is the cheapest route to do for the school. If you do go back to NAIA? I would drop the football program to do that.
04-17-2017 09:17 PM
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #136
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(04-17-2017 09:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 07:10 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(04-16-2017 08:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://newsok.com/article/5545610


An al D2 Oklahoma conference could be forming in D2 with these schools.

SW Oklahoma State
SE Oklahoma State
NW Oklahoma State
Central Oklahoma
NE Oklahoma State
Rogers State
Cameron
Oklahoma Baptist
Oklahoma Christian
Southern Nazarene
East Central Oklahoma

Would Oklahoma Panhandle State step on the brakes and stay in D2 to join this all Oklahoma conference?

This would put the Great American Conference's Arkansas schools for having enough members. This might be the point we could see Arkansas Tech and maybe Central Oklahoma to make the move to D1?

GAC members left:
Arkansas Tech
UAM
Henderson State
Harding
Southern Arkansas
Ouachita Baptist

Could they get UAFS, Hendrix, University of the Ozarks and Lyon to join as an all Arkansas conference?

The paragraph comparing D2 and NAIA is utter nonsense. The points are:

* Each active Division II member gets a revenue distribution check each year of $8-9,000. (that's all? The average d2 school spends at LEAST $1m more per year than the average NAIA school, and getting a revenue check for $9k is supposed to be an enticement? C'mon, man!)
* full travel expenses paid for national competition (which matters squat when you aren't good enough to make national tournaments. Forget the averages, NAIA migrants will need to spend an additional $2m to maintain their NAIA scholarship levels and be competitive enough to collect these expense checks)
* and the opportunity to apply for various grants (yeah, for what? Turns out these are mostly for NCAA specific education, training and programs. In other words, there's a whole bunch of NCAA related training and compliance requirements/opportunities that aren't relevant to the NAIA. Essentially what he's saying is "you need to spend $1m per year or you're going to lose out on saving $10k per year on stuff you won't need if you don't go". Pass.)

It's mentioned by others above that this info came to the write via a consultant. I have no info on that. But the arguments above are identical to the arguments we heard 5-10 years ago from consultants that enticed a whole bunch of clueless ADs with stars in their eyes, and are now D2 doormats. The migration from NAIA to D2 has dried up. Although there might be some applicants this year, I haven't heard of any. The consultant's business has dried up. They are trying to kick start it here.



What I am talking about is the cost of traveling.

Oklahoma Panhandle closest opponents. D2
NW Oklahoma State
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-pueblo
Adams State
Colorado-Colorado Springs
Colorado Christian
Lubbock Christian
SW Oklahoma State

NAIA:
Southwestern Kansas
???????
Northern New Mexico?

If Western Oklahoma in Altus goes from a JC to a 4 year into NAIA? They could be a close opponent. This is what I look at a budget. You may wind up spending more money on travel for your football team in NAIA than you do at D2. I would weight on what is the cheapest route to do for the school. If you do go back to NAIA? I would drop the football program to do that.

Panhandle is joining the Sooner athletic conference, Central States for football.

Here's the conference map for the Sooners. It's fairly compact. Panhandle is located pretty much square in the middle of the panhandle.

http://www.soonerathletic.org/map.php

The football distances are a bit more, but include Sooner members SAGU, Bacone, Texas Wesleyan & Wayland. Plus Langston. If you read the stuff coming out of Panhandle, they're pretty excited about joining the NAIA. They think they'll be able to compete. Might be time for NWOSU to come back.
04-18-2017 12:29 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #137
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
I am looking at D1 conferences for certain sports for stuff like baseball. Here is the count I have.

American East have 7
AAC have 8 plus 9 when Wichita State joins.
A-Sun have 9 plus when the 10th in North Alabama.
Big East have 7
Big South have 10
Big 12 have 9
Big West have 9
CAA have 9
C-USA have 12
Horizon have 7
New Jersey Tech is Independent
MAAC have 11
MAC have 10 after Akron dropping it.
MEAC had 9 but now to 8 when Savannah State leaves to D2
MVC is down to 6 after Wichita State leaves.
MWC have 7 + 2 affiliates from Big Sky
NEC is at 7
OVC is at 11
PAC 12 only have 11.
Patriot is at 6
Southern Conference at 9
Southland is at 13
SWAC have 10
Summit have 6
SBC have 12
WCC at 9

Some of these conferences are in danger of losing any bid for baseball. Horizon, MVC, Summit and maybe NEC plus Southern could lose 1 or more teams in expansions. There are D2 schools that could be called up to fill in these spots. There are really no picks for baseball since each conferences could lose schools to better conferences. Big 12 could lose schools as well.

This could fit in with these sports as well.
Bowling
Tennis
LAX
men and women's soccer
Golf
Swimming and Diving
softball
Hockey

Schools at both D1 and D2 could add these sports as well. We could see a west coast LAX form between RMAC, MWC, Summit, Big Sky and PAC 12 conferences.
04-20-2017 08:36 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #138
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(04-20-2017 08:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am looking at D1 conferences for certain sports for stuff like baseball. Here is the count I have.

American East have 7
AAC have 8 plus 9 when Wichita State joins.
A-Sun have 9 plus when the 10th in North Alabama.
Big East have 7
Big South have 10
Big 12 have 9
Big West have 9
CAA have 9
C-USA have 12
Horizon have 7
New Jersey Tech is Independent
MAAC have 11
MAC have 10 after Akron dropping it.
MEAC had 9 but now to 8 when Savannah State leaves to D2
MVC is down to 6 after Wichita State leaves.
MWC have 7 + 2 affiliates from Big Sky
NEC is at 7
OVC is at 11
PAC 12 only have 11.
Patriot is at 6
Southern Conference at 9
Southland is at 13
SWAC have 10
Summit have 6
SBC have 12
WCC at 9

Some of these conferences are in danger of losing any bid for baseball. Horizon, MVC, Summit and maybe NEC plus Southern could lose 1 or more teams in expansions. There are D2 schools that could be called up to fill in these spots. There are really no picks for baseball since each conferences could lose schools to better conferences. Big 12 could lose schools as well.

This could fit in with these sports as well.
Bowling
Tennis
LAX
men and women's soccer
Golf
Swimming and Diving
softball
Hockey

Schools at both D1 and D2 could add these sports as well. We could see a west coast LAX form between RMAC, MWC, Summit, Big Sky and PAC 12 conferences.

Stop the nonsense, wrong information.
04-21-2017 01:41 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #139
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports...100788962/


Article about smoke that Southern Indiana in Evansville could be gunning for D1.
04-25-2017 12:17 AM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #140
RE: D-II/D-III/NAIA movement
(04-25-2017 12:17 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports...100788962/


Article about smoke that Southern Indiana in Evansville could be gunning for D1.

The article's headline clearly states the opposite. They also say, "it’s not being discussed right now". USI may eventually make it to D1 but it's so far in the future that it doesn't come close to being labeled as 'gunning for'. Quit trying to force something that's not there.
04-25-2017 01:11 AM
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