(10-02-2016 07:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-02-2016 06:58 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I'm noticing that at ALL levels below top 10-15 matchups... ...that there are tons of empty seats in nearly every game.

Of course some teams are better than others - and my Tulane aren't doing so well in this regard thanks to gross mismanagement under the previous administration - but I'm seeing teams that I KNOW can turn out fans showing 40-60% capacity, and it makes me a little sad as a college FB fan.

I live thousands of miles away from my school, but I know that can't be the case everywhere. Have ADs priced out their young alumns and neighborhood fans for good?

I love multi-tasking on Saturdays, but nothing beats a good CFB game that you care about.

I'm starting to believe that there is a social disconnection between fans and their schools - and it's the fabric of what makes CFB better than the NFL in my eyes.

That social disconnect could be seen two decades ago at High School events. In my lifetime I've watched attendance at High School events go from packed with standing room whether for football or basketball, to virtually just the parents of the players and cheerleaders. There are many factors but it goes hand in hand with the breakdown in the cohesion of the towns and cities. People no longer attend to support their neighbors. I think the isolationism of electronics has played a large role in this along with the shift from a single paycheck household to a double paycheck household. Many young parents find themselves too tired to even consider getting out for the evening to go to a sporting event where they have to control their children and where many times now they find themselves to strapped for sitters or tickets. So supporting the local school is no longer a civic priority.

The spillover of a couple of generations of that added to the ever higher investment required to attend big time college sports events are taking their toll. The venues are no longer conducive to community either. I quit going when I could not talk to people I had been sitting with for 40 years. The artificial noise added for TV excitement drowns out everything including conversation with the person seated immediately next to you. Add the higher numbers of the inebriated and obnoxious, or the children really too young to attend a 4 hour event crawling all over you, knocking over your drinks and concessions, or in the case of baseball games drawing on your seats with chalk which then gets all over your clothes, and whose parents just don't give a damn, and it's simply not worth going.

Now if we want to see the folks we sat with for decades we'll invite them over.

We are no longer anything but a perceived community. We don't really know our neighbors. We don't really want to maintain contact with people who are suffering. They may be the object of our trite tweets to pray for them (a notion that makes us look more holy, but provides precious little support for those in crisis) but we won't go do for them. We don't even want to go to family reunions. They are full of old people we don't know who ask us lots of questions so having people actually speaking to you instead of reading a tweet becomes too stressful to make the outing enjoyable.

We have lost our sense of family. We avoid our obligations to them whenever possible. We've lost our need to see them unless we want wedding presents or need people to attend a funeral. And we don't really want to know the people at church now either. Because of that remote preachers speaking to us from a large video screen with music we like and little demand upon our time is replacing what we've traditionally known as church. I would argue that neither version was what was intended for Christian participation because neither actually encourages, or requires us, to be in mission with the widows, orphans, sick, prisoners, or the strangers within our community, but it is still a further breakdown of human to human connection.

So there is no need to obsess about empty football venues. It is merely another symptom of a dying society. The yearnings for protectionism (another symptom) are already with as are multiple indications of the breakdown of our language, its meanings, nuances, and precision (although English has never been the most precise it has been very versatile). Social disintegration is usually followed by a form of anarchy in the last stages.

Remember that when we quit caring about our families, quit keeping up with our friends (except electronically), avoid those who place needs upon our time, and quit supporting our institutions and traditions, we've already adopted an every man for himself mentality. No cohesion, unless it is forced, means no viable civilization.

Olive and Blue, we are so under stress from a lack of cohesion in our practice of life, in our social institutions, and in our practice of law, that we are more severely in trouble than all of our isolated individuals can even comprehend.

So enjoy your family. Get to know them better. Draw your friends closer. Discuss the loss of civility and equal protection of the law both in property and body. Discuss the things that are interrupting community. And formulate strategies for rebuilding it and you will have carried out and modeled what we all need to be doing. That's our way out of this mess.

Good luck!

We have lost our sense of family. We avoid our obligations to them whenever possible. We've lost our need to see them unless we want wedding presents or need people to attend a funeral. And we don't really want to know the people at church now either. Because of that remote preachers speaking to us from a large video screen with music we like and little demand upon our time is replacing what we've traditionally known as church. I would argue that neither version was what was intended for Christian participation because neither actually encourages, or requires us, to be in mission with the widows, orphans, sick, prisoners, or the strangers within our community, but it is still a further breakdown of human to human connection.


God's truth and well stated Jr. The verse in the Bible that pertains to the Christian's mission is very clear and we are failing as a church. It also says our fate will be decided on these command/principles. You are either one of the sheep or one of the goats.

High school football is one of the sports where attendance has dropped precipitously as our lifestyles have changed. My HS is an average-sized metro area school with about 1600 students. 15-20 years ago, they'd used to draw 4-5K a game, and on homecoming, the stadium would be nearly filled (it seats 9K).

Now, they struggle to draw 2K except for homecoming. Even the students have to pay $7 to get in, unless you have a state HS league pass.

Our largest HS (4000 students) still fills the stands, but there are a lot of empty seats even at the bigger schools.

Our local HS football jamboree (held at the Citadel), used to be one of the biggest events of the year. They'd draw 10K or more for two nights and it was a huge cultural event. This year, they struggled to hit 10K combined for the two nights.

(10-03-2016 09:46 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Old time sports owners were always petrified about TV killing their attendance. Turns out they were right, especially when you factor in cost, it just took longer than expected.

I think this needs some qualifying as to not make it so blunt. The game has willingly let television/media alter it. Additional time taken for game stoppages, canned content for television audiences that spectators can't enjoy/witness, advertising, and even replay has ushered in this change. But, it's not like television came in and demanded this. Someone opened the door for it to happen.

With HS football...don't get me started. In PA, I really look to folks like Joe Paterno really sticking a skewer into certain regions' scenes. Dude wouldn't touch most of the public schools north and east of Philly if there were private schools around. So, because he wouldn't frequent certain types of schools, you saw parents and kids migrate over to the Catholic schools he would scout. If you had talent in a place, you didn't go to the public school. The impact rippled along. When you know that the best players in your town or community are playing for the other team for a school miles away, it debases the value of the experience. I mean, how is one supposed to invest in that when you have "favored" programs that pluck out the best from each area?

(10-03-2016 08:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(10-02-2016 10:47 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  There is no real championship...even though there is now a "playoff". That's the problem. The fans of the majority of schools have zero hope of anything before the season even starts. Why have any excitement? Go to a a playoff where the conference champ of EVERY conference gets in, along with a few at large, at this totally changes everything. The short-sighted nature of people who are in favor of killing the G5 blows my mind.

College football was always hard to follow anyway, as so few teams had a chance and there wasn't a real "champion", but going to a 4 team "playoff" almost makes it worse. What reason does anyone who follows say, a MAC school, have to have a shred of hope. Their team could win every game by 3 touchdowns...and still not have a chance. It's infuriating.

Go to a real playoff and most of these problems solve themselves.

Not necessarily. All but four teams have conference championships to play four. Personally I would cut my hand off to see South Carolina win the SEC

But the "championships" in most of these leagues are nothing, as far as the playoffs go. Does the champion of the MAC, CUSA or the Sun Belt have any hope of making the playoffs? No. So what's the point of being excited. Even with the MWC and the American, everything has to fall just right.

It's insane and stupid. 16 team playoff solves all.

(10-03-2016 09:46 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-02-2016 07:40 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Games are expensive.

A lot easier to watch on TV.

Thats my guess too. Why pay $10 to $20 a head plus food and parking when you can watch on TV in a nice climate controlled environment where you can immediately go do something else if the game gets boring.

Old time sports owners were always petrified about TV killing their attendance. Turns out they were right, especially when you factor in cost, it just took longer than expected.

Big Events will be fine, that is why football does not suffer as much because there are only 6 to 8 games a year, but a random baseball game in August or September involving 2 teams not in contention, yikes.

Baseball should be a weekend and holiday sport only. Cut the season in half.

(10-03-2016 09:46 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-02-2016 07:40 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Games are expensive.

A lot easier to watch on TV.

Thats my guess too. Why pay $10 to $20 a head plus food and parking when you can watch on TV in a nice climate controlled environment where you can immediately go do something else if the game gets boring.

Old time sports owners were always petrified about TV killing their attendance. Turns out they were right, especially when you factor in cost, it just took longer than expected.

Big Events will be fine, that is why football does not suffer as much because there are only 6 to 8 games a year, but a random baseball game in August or September involving 2 teams not in contention, yikes.

Must be nice to have the option of getting tix for only $10 to $20 a head.

(10-02-2016 07:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-02-2016 06:58 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I'm noticing that at ALL levels below top 10-15 matchups... ...that there are tons of empty seats in nearly every game.

Of course some teams are better than others - and my Tulane aren't doing so well in this regard thanks to gross mismanagement under the previous administration - but I'm seeing teams that I KNOW can turn out fans showing 40-60% capacity, and it makes me a little sad as a college FB fan.

I live thousands of miles away from my school, but I know that can't be the case everywhere. Have ADs priced out their young alumns and neighborhood fans for good?

I love multi-tasking on Saturdays, but nothing beats a good CFB game that you care about.

I'm starting to believe that there is a social disconnection between fans and their schools - and it's the fabric of what makes CFB better than the NFL in my eyes.

That social disconnect could be seen two decades ago at High School events. In my lifetime I've watched attendance at High School events go from packed with standing room whether for football or basketball, to virtually just the parents of the players and cheerleaders. There are many factors but it goes hand in hand with the breakdown in the cohesion of the towns and cities. People no longer attend to support their neighbors. I think the isolationism of electronics has played a large role in this along with the shift from a single paycheck household to a double paycheck household. Many young parents find themselves too tired to even consider getting out for the evening to go to a sporting event where they have to control their children and where many times now they find themselves to strapped for sitters or tickets. So supporting the local school is no longer a civic priority.

The spillover of a couple of generations of that added to the ever higher investment required to attend big time college sports events are taking their toll. The venues are no longer conducive to community either. I quit going when I could not talk to people I had been sitting with for 40 years. The artificial noise added for TV excitement drowns out everything including conversation with the person seated immediately next to you. Add the higher numbers of the inebriated and obnoxious, or the children really too young to attend a 4 hour event crawling all over you, knocking over your drinks and concessions, or in the case of baseball games drawing on your seats with chalk which then gets all over your clothes, and whose parents just don't give a damn, and it's simply not worth going.

Now if we want to see the folks we sat with for decades we'll invite them over.

We are no longer anything but a perceived community. We don't really know our neighbors. We don't really want to maintain contact with people who are suffering. They may be the object of our trite tweets to pray for them (a notion that makes us look more holy, but provides precious little support for those in crisis) but we won't go do for them. We don't even want to go to family reunions. They are full of old people we don't know who ask us lots of questions so having people actually speaking to you instead of reading a tweet becomes too stressful to make the outing enjoyable.

We have lost our sense of family. We avoid our obligations to them whenever possible. We've lost our need to see them unless we want wedding presents or need people to attend a funeral. And we don't really want to know the people at church now either. Because of that remote preachers speaking to us from a large video screen with music we like and little demand upon our time is replacing what we've traditionally known as church. I would argue that neither version was what was intended for Christian participation because neither actually encourages, or requires us, to be in mission with the widows, orphans, sick, prisoners, or the strangers within our community, but it is still a further breakdown of human to human connection.

So there is no need to obsess about empty football venues. It is merely another symptom of a dying society. The yearnings for protectionism (another symptom) are already with as are multiple indications of the breakdown of our language, its meanings, nuances, and precision (although English has never been the most precise it has been very versatile). Social disintegration is usually followed by a form of anarchy in the last stages.

Remember that when we quit caring about our families, quit keeping up with our friends (except electronically), avoid those who place needs upon our time, and quit supporting our institutions and traditions, we've already adopted an every man for himself mentality. No cohesion, unless it is forced, means no viable civilization.

Olive and Blue, we are so under stress from a lack of cohesion in our practice of life, in our social institutions, and in our practice of law, that we are more severely in trouble than all of our isolated individuals can even comprehend.

So enjoy your family. Get to know them better. Draw your friends closer. Discuss the loss of civility and equal protection of the law both in property and body. Discuss the things that are interrupting community. And formulate strategies for rebuilding it and you will have carried out and modeled what we all need to be doing. That's our way out of this mess.

Good luck!

^^^^^^^^^^^ Spot on! IMHO.

(10-04-2016 06:29 AM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  

(10-03-2016 08:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(10-02-2016 10:47 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  There is no real championship...even though there is now a "playoff". That's the problem. The fans of the majority of schools have zero hope of anything before the season even starts. Why have any excitement? Go to a a playoff where the conference champ of EVERY conference gets in, along with a few at large, at this totally changes everything. The short-sighted nature of people who are in favor of killing the G5 blows my mind.

College football was always hard to follow anyway, as so few teams had a chance and there wasn't a real "champion", but going to a 4 team "playoff" almost makes it worse. What reason does anyone who follows say, a MAC school, have to have a shred of hope. Their team could win every game by 3 touchdowns...and still not have a chance. It's infuriating.

Go to a real playoff and most of these problems solve themselves.

Not necessarily. All but four teams have conference championships to play four. Personally I would cut my hand off to see South Carolina win the SEC

But the "championships" in most of these leagues are nothing, as far as the playoffs go. Does the champion of the MAC, CUSA or the Sun Belt have any hope of making the playoffs? No. So what's the point of being excited. Even with the MWC and the American, everything has to fall just right.

It's insane and stupid. 16 team playoff solves all.

Its possible for a MAC, CUSA or SBC school to do what Houston is doing; sit in the top 5 and be a legit playoff contender.

Houston of course has more local talent to work with than a lot of those schools and has been at it a lot long, rebuilding the past 20 years since they joined CUSA.

If Houston is taken into the B12 another program will fill its void.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using CSNbbs mobile app

I'm going to bump this, as I found a new article that pertains to this topic: https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/article...er-viewers

Seems like the younger crowd are not that into sports of any type.

The holidays, family, and able to watch in the comfort of the home, can you blame them.

(10-02-2016 07:51 PM)Artifice Wrote:  Besides the multitude of other distractions, viewing options, and the expense to already pinched middle class wallets, the networks have ruined things by telling everyone over and over that only a few leagues and teams matter. Its not like this is new for them either. ESPN decided that MLB didn't exist outside of Boston and NY for about a decade and it ruined the sport for a lot of fans. ESPN = worst thing that ever happened to college football.

100% true. Literally the reason Baseball went from my favorite sport to one I haven't watched in 8+ years.

Watching SouthernCal play Notre Dame today in front of only 25,000 fans in the stands at the Coliseum.

Official attendance lists the crowd at 72,402 but it was 1/3 full from what I could see.

I think the presence of the Rams has to do with their loss in popularity. LA is so"meh" on sports and supporting 2 major colleges and an NFL perhaps with another on the way has people burned out on football.

I'm going with another theory, a move from regional conference to national conferences has hurt because its diluted rivalries.

The money that has come into the sport has priced the average fans out and led to enormous salaries disgusting a lot of fans. Schools are wasting money on severance packages.

College sports finds it hard to compete with the amenities of pro stadiums and arenas. In the pros its a new stadium or arena every 20 years.

For some schools they over expanded at the height of their popularity instead of keeping the capacity tight.

I this was a true attendance, it had more to do with the fact that it was a Thanksgiving weekend with two teams with no chance at the playoffs. If played earlier in the year, the crowd would in all probability be almost filled.

TV coverage is more complete, and better than ever. Games are a hassle and expensive to go to. And on top of that I don't think a lot of young adults care about games a much, they live in a virtual world and TV fits em better.

(11-26-2016 11:18 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(10-02-2016 07:51 PM)Artifice Wrote:  Besides the multitude of other distractions, viewing options, and the expense to already pinched middle class wallets, the networks have ruined things by telling everyone over and over that only a few leagues and teams matter. Its not like this is new for them either. ESPN decided that MLB didn't exist outside of Boston and NY for about a decade and it ruined the sport for a lot of fans. ESPN = worst thing that ever happened to college football.

100% true. Literally the reason Baseball went from my favorite sport to one I haven't watched in 8+ years.

Well ESPN didn't help, but it was the strikes that turned me off. I didn't tune in to sports to see a bunch of millionaires fighting over $s.
Free agency and the revenue gap between the top teams didn't help. You had 4 or 5 teams who could get any player they wanted and there was little continuity.

This is a good thread...thanks for the bump.

Love Rutgers guy take on the Boomer generation...they resisted change forever and are trying to protect their wallets now...at everyone else's expense.

I think we'll see more and more alcohol being sold at college games to continue protecting the past and justify the ticket prices. When the younger crowd stops wanting to pay for $10 craft beers that make you fat, then the fit might hit the shan. Or it may be when younger people figure out that living for the "experience" may not be the wisest use of their money when you are going to be in debt your whole life.

I guess when the cord cutters finally significantly affect the TV distribution it may all come to a head...though it may be another 20 years of folks overspending for sports.

(11-26-2016 11:06 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I'm going to bump this, as I found a new article that pertains to this topic: https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/article...er-viewers

Seems like the younger crowd are not that into sports of any type.

My fellow Millennials are too busy in their safe spaces to enjoy sports.

(11-27-2016 11:08 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(11-26-2016 11:06 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I'm going to bump this, as I found a new article that pertains to this topic: https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/article...er-viewers

Seems like the younger crowd are not that into sports of any type.

My fellow Millennials are too busy in their safe spaces to enjoy sports.

Since nobody can control what life does, and nobody knows when it is over, you might as well raise your hands and scream your head off at every hill and turn because the ride is over far too soon and just like with a roller coaster you can either enjoy the experience, or cower in the car and puke your guts out. Either way at the end you die. So it's your choice. You can either choose to enjoy all of it, or try to hide from the danger, but either way you aren't getting out of it alive.

I had the honor to know a Ranger who helped invent the single wing parachute. His wife sewed the first few experimental models. He broke several bones before they came up with a canopy that would glide them down at the fastest possible speed and still land safely. When I asked him the typical wa'fo question he simply said that since life is going to kill you anyway you might as well spend it doing something useful and rewarding. His favorite cliche was, "The brave die but once, but the coward dies a little every day." Here's to the brave! (And screw the Nanny State!)