(10-03-2016 05:55 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Aubtigers
" muster up " what does that really mean I mean it sounds like you think G5 programs aren't smart enough or aren't good enough to play for there own championship
I think over time the recruiting will even out at the top
Imo a p5 split from 75% of all the rest of college sports is what will be good for the rest of college sports
If you just want to be by yourself that's ok, go right ahead but if an when you decide to play with us again for a p5 , G5 championship bowl I am sure ESPN would pay big bucks for that game down the road in 10 years or so...

For one if you'd have actually read my posts in the thread I don't think it is a good idea to split. I highly doubt you read many posts at all in this thread. Based off of your responses, what I guess you did was see the thread title and just post your question.

What I mean by muster up is exactly that. It will be a thrown together system and a few teams from the MWC and AAC would probably win it more times than not. (If we split it P5/G5) If we were to split, I don't think it'd just be the current P5. I believe as posted here in this thread as well by numerous people that there would be a qualifier. Attendance, budget, etc..

Also, to answer your question regarding someone paying for the champ game. Yes, someone would but it won't be as much as you think. How much does the FCS Championship currently get? Here's the thing.

1. You would get zero good bowls. ( Too much money in my opinion to not send the teams above .500 to some sort of post season).
2. Your playoff would have 5 conference champs and 3 at large (If 8). If I were to base it off of this year. (Current projections)

#1. Houston (AAC Champ)
#2. Boise State (MWC Champ)
#3. Western Michigan (MAC Champ)
#4. Troy (Sunbelt Champ)
#5. Southern Mississippi (C-USA Champ)
At Large #6. USF (AAC Runner Up)
At Large #7. Middle Tennessee State (C-USA Runner Up)
At Large #8. Georgia Southern (Sunbelt #2)

Where is the marketability? I could see Boise and Houston drawing a good viewing and that's it. However, what will Houston and Boise look like after a few years in the new system?

If there is a split the G5 will receive less money and the P5 would receive more.

This is what an 8 team playoff would be for the P5. (8 teams, current rankings/standings)

#1. Alabama (SEC Champ)
#2. Ohio State (B1G Champ)
#3. Clemson (ACC Champ)
#4. Washington (PAC 12 Champ)
#5. Baylor (Big 12 Champ)
At Large #6. Michigan (B1G)
At Large #7. Texas A&M (SEC)
At Large #8. Tennessee (SEC)

That is what the media wants to pay for.

The G5 will be what it is now a step above FCS and your programs will get worse and worse with each passing season in this new system. The P5 programs you are currently able to out recruit will be getting those recruits now. Your media revenue will go down. Possibly attendance as you wont have any P5 schools coming in to your stadium to play you. You will get less TV Coverage and less viewers. Sure they will show some games but they won't be the prime time games. That will be for the P5 programs. You will still probably have ESPN 3, some fox sports stuff and some ESPN stuff but it won't be what it is today. They will always want to show content so that's one thing saving you a little.

It'll just get really ugly for you. You will still play some P5 teams just like we all play FCS teams now, but they will be buy games in our stadiums every time. No one goes on the road to play an FCS, it'll be a similar situation.

There are numerous other things and honestly, I've said enough.

These are some of the reasons I do not agree with the separation at all. I hate the idea. If it were up to me (Which it isn't) we would have an 8 team playoff right now. The 5 P5 champs get auto bids and then 3 at large teams seeded based off of the committee rankings.

I know some of the G5 fans would be upset with the P5 getting auto bids but it's either that or the G5 gets cut out completely.

In the SEC our champ typically plays 5-8 ranked teams a season. Last season Alabama had 6 top 25 wins. It would be complete trash if say Houston who could end up with 1 or 2 top 25 wins got a spot over them because they didn't play anyone. It's basically what alot of the G5 fans are saying now.

Some think Houston should be a lock because they beat Oklahoma and could potentially beat Louisville. Other than those 2 you challenged yourself with Lamar and Texas State out of conference. That's where the problem lies. As a G5 if you want to crack the playoff you should play an equally challenging schedule as the teams you would be knocking out of the playoff by taking their spot.

Play 4 P5 schools. Beat those 4 P5 schools. That'll give you 4 P5 wins. Hope that your conference can give you another 3-4 quality wins.

UCF, Memphis, Temple, USF, Tulsa etc... cannot help you this season because they all got DESTROYED by some of the same teams you are trying to get into the playoff over.

Yet, some G5 fans would be complete trolls if Houston doesn't get in even if they truly didn't deserve it. An ECU fan PM'ed me not to long ago about some of the stuff I said about them in a thread and wondered why I thought certain ways. It was a very civil conversation and one of the points I made to him was this.

The P5 fans don't keep G5 win trackers.

We are completely different types of fan bases. The G5 fans at least here seem to constantly bicker back and forth about who is the best G5 program. Once you get tired of that you target the P5, once that's done you're back to running your mouths to each other again lol. That's why I am glad we have our own board in a sense to talk about P5 related topics.

As JR said, no reason to get mad at us. We play the same game you do. We don't control what happens, we don't control who is P5 and who isn't. We don't control what games come on at what time and what channel they'll be on. We don't control who a recruit picks, we don't control anything at all. We're just fans of our teams and enjoy watching them compete. Just like you with your teams.

I just hope the split happens very soon. I don't like the current set-up (false equality), and whatever happens to Tulane at this point is probably already in the cards. It would be cool to play as an independent (if possible, we'll never carry the 20+ million valuation).

Truth be told, most of the truly dedicated G5 fans would just watch a P5 and hop the bandwagon (those that don't cut the cord). You'd run out of people to "talk down to", since we'd be rooting for your school too!

Anyhow, what's interesting to me will be HOW they split the divisions, and what happens to the bottom half of the P5 in 10-15 years. Does the P5 get more competitive within itself - or not?

If you set up a buy-in clause, then you can expect almost the entire AAC to just say "absolutely" and pay up. The entire conference is in a very bad spot in that they HAVE to ante up (even if they shouldn't at the time). The AAC is a conference of smaller programs that are nearly all looking to expand going forward. Being the top of a weaker subdivision is pointless to the entire conference.

A split by conference is... ...interesting. You'd have to leave the NCAA to pull it off. I don't think that ANY entity within NCAA could pull off building a "Premier" division - and then not get sued to high heaven. An idea could be to create "disqualification criteria" - and enforce it. There are FBS rules that get ignored right now as we speak.

Also, the word "G5 viewer" is a bit misleading for describing most G5 fans. I don't watch any games outside of: Tulane, then Interesting P5, then Interesting AAC/MW.

There has been talk of a split for a decade now, but nothing has happened. This tells me they don't know how to really do it - because if they could even cut a little, they absolutely would. With each shrinkage of the field, the pot just gets sweeter as FBS games become scarce and therefore more valuable.

The P5 currently hold the advantage in terms of cohesion. G5 conferences/schools don't even really like each other - and in many cases they like you more than the other G5 schools. The AAC and MW have an interesting history, but if those two could dump the other three they'd do it (AAC have voted with certain P5 blocks several times in their young history). The P5 just needs to play on this discord. They aren't fighting a united front.

What I hate about the "G5" tag is that you'd think that we were talking about an even alliance - and it's the opposite. The MWC and AAC have a competitive rivalry. CUSA and SBC are in an open feud. The MAC is isolated and has no real friends.

(09-30-2016 09:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 09:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  How do you draw the line between the new divisions? If you set the bar to high some current P schools would have to drop out. Set it to low & there would be a swarm of G5 schools suing to get in. About 80 in the new division would take care of the ones with the best cases & give W's to the top teams, don't you think?

You set minimum standards on a variety of things that influence profitability.

You set a minimum investment level for athletic Departments: 80 million plus or minus 5 million.

You set a minimum for stadium capacity: 75,000 for starters

Stanford has a stadium that holds ~50,000

A standard 75,000 isn't going to happen

A P4 isn't going to happen....

1) The Big XII can reload with plenty of good schools. Houston, BYU, UConn, Cincinnati, UCF, and South Florida are better than PLENTY of P5 schools...the perception that these schools are deficient any way is a flat out lie.

2) Until you separate Texas from the LHN, they have no need to join a better conference

3) Notre Dame

The P4 stuff is nonsense....I've been hearing it for a couple of years, and we're not trending that direction, regardless of Big XII problems

(10-07-2016 09:59 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 09:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 09:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  How do you draw the line between the new divisions? If you set the bar to high some current P schools would have to drop out. Set it to low & there would be a swarm of G5 schools suing to get in. About 80 in the new division would take care of the ones with the best cases & give W's to the top teams, don't you think?

You set minimum standards on a variety of things that influence profitability.

You set a minimum investment level for athletic Departments: 80 million plus or minus 5 million.

You set a minimum for stadium capacity: 75,000 for starters

Stanford has a stadium that holds ~50,000

A standard 75,000 isn't going to happen

The conferences should set their own. I picked 75,000 because that is what the SEC averages in attendance per game. If a standard was set of 50,000 for the PAC & say the ACC then fine that can be their minimum. The conferences can then set what they want for a potential G5 promotion. The SEC could say 75,000 and the ACC 50,000 after all that is their business isn't it?

(10-07-2016 03:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 09:59 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 09:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 09:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  How do you draw the line between the new divisions? If you set the bar to high some current P schools would have to drop out. Set it to low & there would be a swarm of G5 schools suing to get in. About 80 in the new division would take care of the ones with the best cases & give W's to the top teams, don't you think?

You set minimum standards on a variety of things that influence profitability.

You set a minimum investment level for athletic Departments: 80 million plus or minus 5 million.

You set a minimum for stadium capacity: 75,000 for starters

Stanford has a stadium that holds ~50,000

A standard 75,000 isn't going to happen

The conferences should set their own. I picked 75,000 because that is what the SEC averages in attendance per game. If a standard was set of 50,000 for the PAC & say the ACC then fine that can be their minimum. The conferences can then set what they want for a potential G5 promotion. The SEC could say 75,000 and the ACC 50,000 after all that is their business isn't it?

As far as conference matters go, yes, it would be their business. But that authority wouldn't extend to keeping other schools from entering the same division.

Unless there's a split from the NCAA itself, I think they're going to have to come up with a more complex criteria.

Just curious on why we wouldn't sue? We have always played FBS/Div 1-A/Div 1 football all the way before the split in the late 70s. We have also been playing football longer then Florida State. We also have a larger stadium and average more than fans than many P5 programs. Do we get left behind in this G5 who are all mostly recent FCS move ups who we have no tradition with? I think a split is fine but you would need to bring some G5 programs with you. For Example BYU, ECU, UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

(10-08-2016 07:58 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Just curious on why we wouldn't sue? We have always played FBS/Div 1-A/Div 1 football all the way before the split in the late 70s. We have also been playing football longer then Florida State. We also have a larger stadium and average more than fans than many P5 programs. Do we get left behind in this G5 who are all mostly recent FCS move ups who we have no tradition with? I think a split is fine but you would need to bring some G5 programs with you. For Example BYU, ECU, UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

For E.C.U. it is more of a network problem than a "P" conference issue. Initially you were both helped and hurt by the market footprint model imposed by networks for payouts. It peaked the interest of the SEC to know you were an option into a state like North Carolina. However it killed that interest when the networks didn't want to pay "P" level pricing for 5 schools in a state where just 2, or 3 at most, would carry the state.

I agree with most of the E.C.U. position being favorable. But you suffer the same issue as Houston which once was in a "P" level conference, the SWC. They'll get looks by the PAC should they decide they want into to Texas but the Networks don't want to pay "P" prices for a 6th Texas school when 3 would do.

E.C.U. may put the SEC into North Carolina, but ESPN is already there in spades and that is the issue. Ditto for Houston. But Houston stands a better chance if the PAC doesn't throw in with ESPN or FOX and still covets a presence in Texas for their own self owned network. E.C.U. suffers by being surrounded by ESPN owned properties.

(10-08-2016 08:16 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 07:58 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Just curious on why we wouldn't sue? We have always played FBS/Div 1-A/Div 1 football all the way before the split in the late 70s. We have also been playing football longer then Florida State. We also have a larger stadium and average more than fans than many P5 programs. Do we get left behind in this G5 who are all mostly recent FCS move ups who we have no tradition with? I think a split is fine but you would need to bring some G5 programs with you. For Example BYU, ECU, UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

For E.C.U. it is more of a network problem than a "P" conference issue. Initially you were both helped and hurt by the market footprint model imposed by networks for payouts. It peaked the interest of the SEC to know you were an option into a state like North Carolina. However it killed that interest when the networks didn't want to pay "P" level pricing for 5 schools in a state where just 2, or 3 at most, would carry the state.

I agree with most of the E.C.U. position being favorable. But you suffer the same issue as Houston which once was in a "P" level conference, the SWC. They'll get looks by the PAC should they decide they want into to Texas but the Networks don't want to pay "P" prices for a 6th Texas school when 3 would do.

E.C.U. may put the SEC into North Carolina, but ESPN is already there in spades and that is the issue. Ditto for Houston. But Houston stands a better chance if the PAC doesn't throw in with ESPN or FOX and still covets a presence in Texas for their own self owned network. E.C.U. suffers by being surrounded by ESPN owned properties.

I get that. We are not talking about TV money we are talking about deregulating a program that has played at the top division throughout their history to only be forced down based on their conference and nothing else.