How is anybody going to grab another P5 school before 2025? If the ACC teams are safe until 2036, or whenever, due to the GoR, then the B12 teams are safe until 2025, which is an eternity in realignment years.

(10-01-2016 11:25 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  People keep saying that Kansas is a shoe in to land in a Power conference if Texas and/or Oklahoma leave the Big 12 but I'm not entirely convinced that that is the case. I'm not convinced that an excellent basketball brand and AAU status is enough to combat pitiful football, the small population of the state/limited number of new network subscribers, and the fact that it would be on the geographic edge of any conference they might join.

I think you are right. Kansas could end up like UCONN if the Big 12 breaks up and the B1G doesn't want them.

AAU basketball blue blood could be exactly what the SEC wants. We have plenty of football first programs and want to improve our basketball rep. KU could fill that need nicely if they wanted to (though we'd understand if they preferred the B1G) so that's a potential home with us if they end up needing it.

(09-30-2016 11:34 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 10:37 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  It's not about "getting into Texas." It's getting Texas-Austin.

Yes, this is a difference between the Kansas's and TCU. Kansas State is recruiting players in Central Texas, they want to have an away game in Central Texas that they can bring those players to.

That's not an issue for TCU. Obviously, TCU can bring those players to Fort Worth. TCU wants to have the two visits from UTexas every four years. Getting that dropped down to one visit every three or four years is not something they'd want to see.

If Texas wants to get UH into the conference in order to shore up their profile in East Texas after Texas A&M went to the SEC (although they'd be loathe to admit that is the reason), they want UH in their division, and they wouldn't be under the same pressure in DFW, so conceding on Baylor and TCU in the other division to give the other division more trips into Texas is one way they could go.

TCU obviously wouldn't be eager to have their own interests sacrificed in the interests of getting votes for expansion from the Central Plains, so if things were headed that way, it wouldn't be surprising if that made TCU a no vote.

The question would be whether there are two other "no" votes to kill that particular plan.

One reason it seems fairly likely to come down to how people vote at the meeting ... and even in what order the meeting votes on what points ... is that everyone has an incentive before the meeting to make ambit claims, asking for more than what they would be willing to settle for, and so what Big12 Presidents say to each other before the meeting is less likely to result in eight schools in favor of one plan than the results of the votes at the meeting.

If some things get settled, like size of the expansion and final short list, but there is a deadlock on which to go with, then if a majority are still in favor of expansion, the meeting could tighten the frame and then push off the final decision for a bit longer. But if they want an early realignment, it doesn't seem like they could push it past Christmas, so if the October meeting is not conclusive, I'd expect it to be resolved or put back on the back burner by Christmas ...

... which lines up with the public remarks of the President of ISU.

Yeah, to get/retain UT on the schedule means to have these games in your home turf every other year and know the school is good to bring with it its fans and their money. Along with traveling to a school and getting to be seen by local talent, but to also showcase your own is also a benefit. And, you get an opportunity for your alumni base to network with theirs. THAT has some big benefits for both as well. All the while, the frequency lends itself to boost interest and enrollment, blah, blah, blah.

It's not that you can't get some of those benefits from Tech, Baylor, TCU, or the other non-B12 Texas schools...we all know who these other schools really want. UT brings it all, and nobody wants to compromise that.

While I do not think the Big 12 will expand, despite the proven benefits/advantages of doing so, I do believe we have already seen the groundwork for the eventual breakup of the Big 12. The Old Big East began living on borrowed time when the conference lost Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech in 2003, and treaded water with the additions of Cincinnati, Louisville, USF, DePaul and Marquette. It paved the way for the eventual defections in Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, and Notre Dame, and the intent of C7 to reform the league.

I see Texas and Oklahoma leaving in 2022-2023, in anticipation of the expiration of the Big 12. Texas would go independent in football (or an ACC-like scheduling alliance with a conference), and I see Oklahoma cutting the cord with Oklahoma State in order to secure and provide for its own interests and survival in the SEC. The SEC would then add Kansas as well to get to 16 (which would help immensely help basketball and add an AAU).

The ACC would not add anyone, because Notre Dame still isn't in a position to be forced in as a full-member. They stay at 14 full-members, with the two non-football members in Texas and Notre Dame. Perhaps there is agreement to bump up the scheduling agreement from five games per year to six.

The PAC-12 adds Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Texas Tech and TCU, getting to 16.

The B1G would stay at 14, until they are in position to make another run at ACC schools Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Florida State.

West Virginia, Baylor and Iowa State, unfortunately, would get the short-end of the stick (not unlike UConn, Cincinnati and USF in 2010-2013), so they would go to the American.

That's my two cents (which is worth nothing at all haha).

(10-01-2016 09:01 AM)colohank Wrote:  Almost any G5 or P5 school can be a beast if it has an capable, innovative, hungry coach and a good quarterback.

Every so often a G5 school makes a home-run coaching hire; some schools do better at making those hires than others. But you can't sustain the success, and you can't keep the hot coach, unless you have the fan support and booster donations to reward the head coach, give him money to hire and keep top notch assistants, build facilities good enough to boost recruiting, etc. Urban Meyer was once the head coach at Bowling Green; as we all know, he is not there now.

(10-03-2016 10:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  While I do not think the Big 12 will expand, despite the proven benefits/advantages of doing so, I do believe we have already seen the groundwork for the eventual breakup of the Big 12. The Old Big East began living on borrowed time when the conference lost Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech in 2003, and treaded water with the additions of Cincinnati, Louisville, USF, DePaul and Marquette. It paved the way for the eventual defections in Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, and Notre Dame, and the intent of C7 to reform the league.

I see Texas and Oklahoma leaving in 2022-2023, in anticipation of the expiration of the Big 12. Texas would go independent in football (or an ACC-like scheduling alliance with a conference), and I see Oklahoma cutting the cord with Oklahoma State in order to secure and provide for its own interests and survival in the SEC. The SEC would then add Kansas as well to get to 16 (which would help immensely help basketball and add an AAU).

The ACC would not add anyone, because Notre Dame still isn't in a position to be forced in as a full-member. They stay at 14 full-members, with the two non-football members in Texas and Notre Dame. Perhaps there is agreement to bump up the scheduling agreement from five games per year to six.

The PAC-12 adds Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Texas Tech and TCU, getting to 16.

The B1G would stay at 14, until they are in position to make another run at ACC schools Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Florida State.

West Virginia, Baylor and Iowa State, unfortunately, would get the short-end of the stick (not unlike UConn, Cincinnati and USF in 2010-2013), so they would go to the American.

That's my two cents (which is worth nothing at all haha).

The PAC 12 won't add Kansas St and Oklahoma St....they aren't high research schools. Maybe one of them gets in with a Texas package deal, but that's the only way.
Cheers!

(10-03-2016 10:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  While I do not think the Big 12 will expand, despite the proven benefits/advantages of doing so, I do believe we have already seen the groundwork for the eventual breakup of the Big 12. The Old Big East began living on borrowed time when the conference lost Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech in 2003, and treaded water with the additions of Cincinnati, Louisville, USF, DePaul and Marquette. It paved the way for the eventual defections in Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, and Notre Dame, and the intent of C7 to reform the league.

I see Texas and Oklahoma leaving in 2022-2023, in anticipation of the expiration of the Big 12. Texas would go independent in football (or an ACC-like scheduling alliance with a conference), and I see Oklahoma cutting the cord with Oklahoma State in order to secure and provide for its own interests and survival in the SEC. The SEC would then add Kansas as well to get to 16 (which would help immensely help basketball and add an AAU).

The ACC would not add anyone, because Notre Dame still isn't in a position to be forced in as a full-member. They stay at 14 full-members, with the two non-football members in Texas and Notre Dame. Perhaps there is agreement to bump up the scheduling agreement from five games per year to six.

The PAC-12 adds Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Texas Tech and TCU, getting to 16.

The B1G would stay at 14, until they are in position to make another run at ACC schools Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Florida State.

West Virginia, Baylor and Iowa State, unfortunately, would get the short-end of the stick (not unlike UConn, Cincinnati and USF in 2010-2013), so they would go to the American.

That's my two cents (which is worth nothing at all haha).

There are no proven benefits to the Big XII expanding at this time - only speculation and opinions. And frankly, comparisons with the old Big East are irrelevant. Their situations are completely different.

(10-02-2016 06:44 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  AAU basketball blue blood could be exactly what the SEC wants. We have plenty of football first programs and want to improve our basketball rep. KU could fill that need nicely if they wanted to (though we'd understand if they preferred the B1G) so that's a potential home with us if they end up needing it.

I'm not sold on Kansas in the SEC simply because of cultural fit, but I do like their basketball and AAU status. I also think that Kansas in the SEC would have more money to put towards a football coach, and as other schools have seen, the right hire makes all the difference.

(10-03-2016 02:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-03-2016 10:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  While I do not think the Big 12 will expand, despite the proven benefits/advantages of doing so, I do believe we have already seen the groundwork for the eventual breakup of the Big 12. The Old Big East began living on borrowed time when the conference lost Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech in 2003, and treaded water with the additions of Cincinnati, Louisville, USF, DePaul and Marquette. It paved the way for the eventual defections in Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, and Notre Dame, and the intent of C7 to reform the league.

I see Texas and Oklahoma leaving in 2022-2023, in anticipation of the expiration of the Big 12. Texas would go independent in football (or an ACC-like scheduling alliance with a conference), and I see Oklahoma cutting the cord with Oklahoma State in order to secure and provide for its own interests and survival in the SEC. The SEC would then add Kansas as well to get to 16 (which would help immensely help basketball and add an AAU).

The ACC would not add anyone, because Notre Dame still isn't in a position to be forced in as a full-member. They stay at 14 full-members, with the two non-football members in Texas and Notre Dame. Perhaps there is agreement to bump up the scheduling agreement from five games per year to six.

The PAC-12 adds Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Texas Tech and TCU, getting to 16.

The B1G would stay at 14, until they are in position to make another run at ACC schools Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Florida State.

West Virginia, Baylor and Iowa State, unfortunately, would get the short-end of the stick (not unlike UConn, Cincinnati and USF in 2010-2013), so they would go to the American.

That's my two cents (which is worth nothing at all haha).

The PAC 12 won't add Kansas St and Oklahoma St....they aren't high research schools. Maybe one of them gets in with a Texas package deal, but that's the only way.
Cheers!

OSU and TCU are not tier 1 research universities, while KSU and TTU are. I made a long post on page 6 about it. If that was going to be their only criteria for invitations to the PAC 12 OSU, TCU, and Baylor would not make the cut. But as I said prior, I don't think they would exclude OSU if Oklahoma wanted them or if Texas wanted to bring TCU. I think all of the conferences will make concessions to bring in Oklahoma and Texas. My earlier post was just to highlight the fact that all B1G and PAC schools are Tier 1 research universities and may be less inclined to send out invites to schools who are not. Who knows though, just food for thought. :)

If the PAC 12 would add an team from Texas if UT was to decline, I would think it would be TCU and UH, both in large markets for the network.