(09-28-2016 12:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 11:09 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 04:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-27-2016 05:15 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-27-2016 05:01 PM)brista21 Wrote:  Actually, I thought they were the big dog of the conference most pro-expansion or at least most interested in doing a full due diligence on who's available, what combinations project to what value increases, etc.

They still are, until Boren says otherwise, publicly, I would guess.

The report was silly, anyway. SI's Stewart Mandel published an article this morning saying that, based on Boren's recent comments, "sources around the league" took it as Boren now reversing his position on expansion.

Within a few minutes, Twitter blew up saying expansion was dead.

The statement Mandel used was from 2 weeks ago, when Boren said, "I'm not saying there will be expansion, and not saying there won't."

That was it. Media just needs to STFU until the Big 12 actually announces something, one way or the other, b/c a number of them have already said that Big 12 presidents aren't talking to the media.

So, all the reports saying schools that are out may not be out at all? What Boise State officials said is that they have not been contacted by the Big 12 yet. There was nothing from Boise saying they were out. It is just Twitter and media officials saying that they are out. I don't think Memphis knows for sure that they are in or that they are out, and many other schools. This is all a yo-yo with all these reports.

Just stop with the Boise please.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/col...61317.html

I am taken any news source about anything with a grain of salt. Until the Big 12 says that any schools have been eliminated themselves? Than any news even if it comes from someone from said school think they are out are not out. The Big 12 have not said for themselves in the media that any schools are out. All these news articles are nothing but fiction just to tear any and all schools apart for selfless gains.

So Kustra is lying?

The delusional std is perpetuated by TX & OU. It is these two schools that have the unrealistic std, because that is the std they want for the schools they want to associate with & compete against. And it is TX & OU who have options if the std isn't found (& it won't be) in expansion candidates but it leaves 8 other programs between a rock & hard place.

(09-28-2016 12:31 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  I agree with your whole premise. This isn't a charity, so even if the Big 12 was made up of 10 IUPUI's, if they are paid their current deal, then they want people who bring some value to that deal or the Big 12 as a whole.

The thing that confuses me, is that all the data that's been released so far has been positive for Big 12 expansion. In the VERY worst case, adding 2 teams is revenue neutral (and that's a case without much room for growth or vision), and improves the chances of current teams of making the playoffs, etc. There is obviously more data they paid for, so maybe there is more hiding in there. But the Big 12 seems incredibly stubborn.

So, unless they are just fighting over who to invite or still holding out hope for an FSU/Clemson type school (delusional), an administrator saying that adding teams from their interview pool doesn't make sense, quite frankly, doesn't make sense.

As ATL said, the hold up is UT and OU. Because if the B12 expands the networks are going to demand a GOR extension that the Sooners and the Longhorns want no part of.

(09-28-2016 12:31 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 10:12 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 09:43 AM)Carolina Stang Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 04:12 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 01:12 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  They had to conduct months of due diligence and pay expensive consultants to figure that out? I would have been happy to explain that to them at a much lower price.

Then, they should help grow those schools to be equals to the ones lost. Many of these schools on the list have growing research and academics, and some faster than others.

Let's examine schools that have been thought of as G5 who have moved to P5:
TCU
Louisville
Utah

All successful programs.

B12 is shortsighted. Take any 2 of UH, Cincy, Memphis, UConn, SMU, USF, UCF, Tulane, ECU, et al and see what those schools do within 3-5 years with B12 financial resources. They kick @ss

This is a perfect snapshot of the greed within P5 conference expansion, and the incredible idiocracy of this process:

To be sure, the expansion standard is NOT whether a school would do well with Big 12 financial resources. Instead, the expansion standard is whether a school would ADD to the Big 12 financial resources. Neither the Big 12 nor any of the other P5 leagues need to expand for the sake of helping any G5 schools; it's incumbent upon those G5 schools to show what they can do for the Big 12 or the applicable P5 league as opposed to the other way around.

Now, on the flip side, I've said for several years that the Big 12 was completely delusional if they thought for one second that schools like Florida State and Clemson would ever seriously consider joining them (and completely bats**t crazy to think that any school that actually left the Big 12 would ever think for one second of coming back). It's frustrating as a neutral observer in seeing that, at least in Barry Tramel's latest piece, there is STILL that delusion.

If the Big 12 ultimately believes that any G5 additions won't make them more money at the end of the day, then that's fine. That may very well be the case and they shouldn't be running a charity for G5 schools. However, if they're holding out on expansion because of continued delusions of grandeur of getting some bigger names from another P5 league, then that's idiotic. The Big 12 has been raided by the Big Ten, SEC and Pac-12 during this decade. I know Big 12 administrators and fans don't want to hear it, but they are LAST in the pecking order of P5 conferences when it comes to realignment power. FSU, Nebraska, Texas A&M, et. al are NEVER coming through that door and the Big 12 needs to get over it. The Big 12 still doesn't seem to understand their place in the college sports world (which is weaker than all of the other P5 leagues regarding realignment), and until they do so, they can't move on (and it might be too late by the time that they figure it out).

I agree with your whole premise. This isn't a charity, so even if the Big 12 was made up of 10 IUPUI's, if they are paid their current deal, then they want people who bring some value to that deal or the Big 12 as a whole.

The thing that confuses me, is that all the data that's been released so far has been positive for Big 12 expansion. In the VERY worst case, adding 2 teams is revenue neutral (and that's a case without much room for growth or vision), and improves the chances of current teams of making the playoffs, etc. There is obviously more data they paid for, so maybe there is more hiding in there. But the Big 12 seems incredibly stubborn.

So, unless they are just fighting over who to invite or still holding out hope for an FSU/Clemson type school (delusional), an administrator saying that adding teams from their interview pool doesn't make sense, quite frankly, doesn't make sense.

adding two teams is not revenue neutral though that is what you are missing out on

current Big 12 schools are set to average $36.5 million per year over the final 8 years of their contract if the CCG pays $30 million per year

new teams would bring in $22.5 million on average per year over that same 8 years

that is not revenue neutral

and when you talk about "scaling ip payments" you have to understand that new teams will be paying about $15 million each with the exception of BYU to leave their current conference and that combined with the very very small payments you would have to give them for the first 5 years before they even start getting a half share or more in year 6 working to a full share in year 8 means those new members would basically e making about the same money as they make in their current conferences for the first 5 years or so

then they finally have a big revenue jump in years 6, 7 and 8 that they are suppose to use to rapidly improve or sustain success so they can look like a "big boy" for the contract negotiations

so there is a major revenue issue and a long term competitiveness issue with revenues for all but POSSIBLY BYU or POSSIBLY UConn and each of those schools has issues (and my opinion on that has ZERO to do with the religious aspects of BYU) it has to do with the fact that is basically two more islands in the Big 12 to contend with and UConn is terrible at football

(09-28-2016 12:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 11:09 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 04:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-27-2016 05:15 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-27-2016 05:01 PM)brista21 Wrote:  Actually, I thought they were the big dog of the conference most pro-expansion or at least most interested in doing a full due diligence on who's available, what combinations project to what value increases, etc.

They still are, until Boren says otherwise, publicly, I would guess.

The report was silly, anyway. SI's Stewart Mandel published an article this morning saying that, based on Boren's recent comments, "sources around the league" took it as Boren now reversing his position on expansion.

Within a few minutes, Twitter blew up saying expansion was dead.

The statement Mandel used was from 2 weeks ago, when Boren said, "I'm not saying there will be expansion, and not saying there won't."

That was it. Media just needs to STFU until the Big 12 actually announces something, one way or the other, b/c a number of them have already said that Big 12 presidents aren't talking to the media.

So, all the reports saying schools that are out may not be out at all? What Boise State officials said is that they have not been contacted by the Big 12 yet. There was nothing from Boise saying they were out. It is just Twitter and media officials saying that they are out. I don't think Memphis knows for sure that they are in or that they are out, and many other schools. This is all a yo-yo with all these reports.

Just stop with the Boise please.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/col...61317.html

I am taken any news source about anything with a grain of salt. Until the Big 12 says that any schools have been eliminated themselves? Than any news even if it comes from someone from said school think they are out are not out. The Big 12 have not said for themselves in the media that any schools are out. All these news articles are nothing but fiction just to tear any and all schools apart for selfless gains.

Mmmmmm--By that token, the Big12 never said Boise was under consideration to begin with. Of course, they also never said they were not under consideration. The Big12 simply doesn't "announce" that type of thing. So they wont be announcing who is no longer under consideration either. So, if you are using that standard, essentially anyone and everyone could be under consideration.

However, when the president of a school says they are not under consideration---that's about as final a word as you are going to get when it comes to this type of thing.

(09-27-2016 04:55 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Jake Trotter @Jake_Trotter
Statement from Oklahoma president David Boren in response to reports he “is now opposed to Big 12 expansion.”
5:14 PM - 27 Sep 2016

Boren: "I do not know where the speculation came from, but Oklahoma has not yet taken a position on expansion."

https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/...wsrc%5Etfw

For a very intelligent man, Boren is not very smart when it comes to keeping his opinions to himself.

Boren does not know where speculation regarding Boren believing Oklahoma is now opposed to expansion came from, nor does he fully agree with Boren's comments last year about the Big 12 being at a psychological disadvantage, but Boren does believe, however, that Boren has not fully made its mind up regarding expansion. But, Boren could. Or, maybe Boren will not. In any case, Boren will Boren.

Boren does not know. Yet.

(09-28-2016 07:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 12:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 11:09 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 04:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-27-2016 05:15 PM)TripleA Wrote:  They still are, until Boren says otherwise, publicly, I would guess.

The report was silly, anyway. SI's Stewart Mandel published an article this morning saying that, based on Boren's recent comments, "sources around the league" took it as Boren now reversing his position on expansion.

Within a few minutes, Twitter blew up saying expansion was dead.

The statement Mandel used was from 2 weeks ago, when Boren said, "I'm not saying there will be expansion, and not saying there won't."

That was it. Media just needs to STFU until the Big 12 actually announces something, one way or the other, b/c a number of them have already said that Big 12 presidents aren't talking to the media.

So, all the reports saying schools that are out may not be out at all? What Boise State officials said is that they have not been contacted by the Big 12 yet. There was nothing from Boise saying they were out. It is just Twitter and media officials saying that they are out. I don't think Memphis knows for sure that they are in or that they are out, and many other schools. This is all a yo-yo with all these reports.

Just stop with the Boise please.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/col...61317.html

I am taken any news source about anything with a grain of salt. Until the Big 12 says that any schools have been eliminated themselves? Than any news even if it comes from someone from said school think they are out are not out. The Big 12 have not said for themselves in the media that any schools are out. All these news articles are nothing but fiction just to tear any and all schools apart for selfless gains.

Mmmmmm--By that token, the Big12 never said Boise was under consideration to begin with. Of course, they also never said they were not under consideration. The Big12 simply doesn't "announce" that type of thing. So they wont be announcing who is no longer under consideration either. So, if you are using that standard, essentially anyone and everyone could be under consideration.

However, when the president of a school says they are not under consideration---that's about as final a word as you are going to get when it comes to this type of thing.

The keyword here is that the Big 12 is nothing but stringing all these schools along for big hopes for an invite, and the media reported bogus reports to dash the hopes of these schools. The logical schools to add to keep football credibility in adding for SoS is not the teams that are listed as finalists. Boise State is sitting at number for the most wins since 2000. How can a P5 conference ignores a dynasty team like that? Boise State could be a Blue Blood team of the future. Some of the blue blood teams have fallen to hard time and not consider a blue blood anymore.

(09-28-2016 09:38 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Boren does not know where speculation regarding Boren believing Oklahoma is now opposed to expansion came from, nor does he fully agree with Boren's comments last year about the Big 12 being at a psychological disadvantage, but Boren does believe, however, that Boren has not fully made its mind up regarding expansion. But, Boren could. Or, maybe Boren will not. In any case, Boren will Boren.

Boren does not know. Yet.

You really believe what you typed? Or do you think that maybe Boren is not going to say anything definitive to the media until this is over?

(09-28-2016 09:44 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 09:38 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Boren does not know where speculation regarding Boren believing Oklahoma is now opposed to expansion came from, nor does he fully agree with Boren's comments last year about the Big 12 being at a psychological disadvantage, but Boren does believe, however, that Boren has not fully made its mind up regarding expansion. But, Boren could. Or, maybe Boren will not. In any case, Boren will Boren.

Boren does not know. Yet.

You really believe what you typed? Or do you think that maybe Boren is not going to say anything definitive to the media until this is over?

Poor attempt at humor I suppose, AAA. The problem with the whole Big 12 expansion is that nobody really knows anything, because everyone (schools, athletic directors, presidents, fans, coaches, etc.) has a different agenda with regards to expansion.

It'll be a miracle if expansion does happen, because that would mean eight schools voted together in something and found agreement.

(09-28-2016 10:04 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 09:44 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 09:38 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Boren does not know where speculation regarding Boren believing Oklahoma is now opposed to expansion came from, nor does he fully agree with Boren's comments last year about the Big 12 being at a psychological disadvantage, but Boren does believe, however, that Boren has not fully made its mind up regarding expansion. But, Boren could. Or, maybe Boren will not. In any case, Boren will Boren.

Boren does not know. Yet.

You really believe what you typed? Or do you think that maybe Boren is not going to say anything definitive to the media until this is over?

Poor attempt at humor I suppose, AAA. The problem with the whole Big 12 expansion is that nobody really knows anything, because everyone (schools, athletic directors, presidents, fans, coaches, etc.) has a different agenda with regards to expansion.

It'll be a miracle if expansion does happen, because that would mean eight schools voted together in something and found agreement.

I thought it was pretty amusing.

(09-28-2016 10:04 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 09:44 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 09:38 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Boren does not know where speculation regarding Boren believing Oklahoma is now opposed to expansion came from, nor does he fully agree with Boren's comments last year about the Big 12 being at a psychological disadvantage, but Boren does believe, however, that Boren has not fully made its mind up regarding expansion. But, Boren could. Or, maybe Boren will not. In any case, Boren will Boren.

Boren does not know. Yet.

You really believe what you typed? Or do you think that maybe Boren is not going to say anything definitive to the media until this is over?

Poor attempt at humor I suppose, AAA. The problem with the whole Big 12 expansion is that nobody really knows anything, because everyone (schools, athletic directors, presidents, fans, coaches, etc.) has a different agenda with regards to expansion.

It'll be a miracle if expansion does happen, because that would mean eight schools voted together in something and found agreement.

I'm thinking the Big 12 presidents know what they are thinking, and the schools involved know what they are being told, and the rest of the world, including the media, doesn't know anything b/c the B12 presidents aren't talking to them.

The proof is in the decision they make and finally announce. The process will be forgotten once whatever they decide to do is made public.

(09-28-2016 09:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 07:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 12:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 11:09 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(09-28-2016 04:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  So, all the reports saying schools that are out may not be out at all? What Boise State officials said is that they have not been contacted by the Big 12 yet. There was nothing from Boise saying they were out. It is just Twitter and media officials saying that they are out. I don't think Memphis knows for sure that they are in or that they are out, and many other schools. This is all a yo-yo with all these reports.

Just stop with the Boise please.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/col...61317.html

I am taken any news source about anything with a grain of salt. Until the Big 12 says that any schools have been eliminated themselves? Than any news even if it comes from someone from said school think they are out are not out. The Big 12 have not said for themselves in the media that any schools are out. All these news articles are nothing but fiction just to tear any and all schools apart for selfless gains.

Mmmmmm--By that token, the Big12 never said Boise was under consideration to begin with. Of course, they also never said they were not under consideration. The Big12 simply doesn't "announce" that type of thing. So they wont be announcing who is no longer under consideration either. So, if you are using that standard, essentially anyone and everyone could be under consideration.

However, when the president of a school says they are not under consideration---that's about as final a word as you are going to get when it comes to this type of thing.

The keyword here is that the Big 12 is nothing but stringing all these schools along for big hopes for an invite, and the media reported bogus reports to dash the hopes of these schools. The logical schools to add to keep football credibility in adding for SoS is not the teams that are listed as finalists. Boise State is sitting at number for the most wins since 2000. How can a P5 conference ignores a dynasty team like that? Boise State could be a Blue Blood team of the future. Some of the blue blood teams have fallen to hard time and not consider a blue blood anymore.

Keep in mind that simply winning a lot of football games does not make a school a "Blue Blood". Think of "Blue Blood" more as a distinction between "old money" and "new money". Just because individuals achieve "nouveau riche" status, they will almost never be accepted into the old boys club that is the landed gentry - even if their wealth far exceeds that of many of that social class.

It would likely take as long as 50 years and a major change in Boise's perceived status as an academic institution before they would have much chance of breaking that glass ceiling.