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ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
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CollegeCard Offline
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ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
Interesting read. I assume the same service would be used to break a 3 way tie in the Coastal even though the article only references the Atlantic division.

Upon reading I realize they needed a final tie-breaker the weekend prior to the title game and can't wait until the CFP ratings come out, but this still seems a bit odd. I think my pause is the lack of transparency.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...-3-way-tie
09-20-2016 02:04 PM
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
A contractor will make for a convenient messenger to be shot and disposed of so the league can do whatever it thinks betters its chances of getting one or two teams into the playoff. The fans go after the contractor, the conference quietly walks away.

Also, can we PLEASE get Heather Spinich permanently removed from all ACC coverage? PLEASE?!
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2016 02:33 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
09-20-2016 02:25 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-20-2016 02:04 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  Interesting read. I assume the same service would be used to break a 3 way tie in the Coastal even though the article only references the Atlantic division.

Upon reading I realize they needed a final tie-breaker the weekend prior to the title game and can't wait until the CFP ratings come out, but this still seems a bit odd. I think my pause is the lack of transparency.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...-3-way-tie

They probably wouldn't need it for the Coastal, because there are a lot more tie breakers ahead of the CFP ranking that would likely break the tie in that division. The premise for the Atlantic, though, is a three way tie in which each team has only lost to one of the other two. In that case, none of those other tie breakers would do the job.

And, while the tie could not be broken in the last week of the regular season, because all of them have an SEC opponent in their final game, they wouldn't want to use the CFP ranking that come out after each had completed its league schedule but before those OOC games. I think they were using the BCS standings when these tie breakers were originally set up, and that last ranking came out on Sunday night. Its thanks to the Tuesday prime time "big reveal" that the ACC can't wait to tell the teams involved who will be playing.
09-20-2016 02:54 PM
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ULdave Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
It is unconscionable to me that the tie breaker system would not be 100% transparent. All team should know EXACTLY what measures are being taken to determine the tie breaker. It's like playing a game but you don't know the scoring system.
09-20-2016 08:04 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
Well it is the 7th tie breaker and it beats drawing straws or flipping a coin.
09-20-2016 08:50 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-20-2016 08:04 PM)ULdave Wrote:  It is unconscionable to me that the tie breaker system would not be 100% transparent. All team should know EXACTLY what measures are being taken to determine the tie breaker. It's like playing a game but you don't know the scoring system.

The teams all know what the tiebreakers are. The only difference is that they won't wait on the CFP rankings (which aren't transparent to them) and will instead use a ranking the CFP selection committee uses and which is transparent to the league because they pay a fee to the contractor that provides it.

And, it will only come into play in the specific circumstance I described in an earlier post. This should not make any member unhappy.
09-20-2016 09:41 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-20-2016 08:50 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Well it is the 7th tie breaker and it beats drawing straws or flipping a coin.

I agree.
09-21-2016 09:17 AM
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orangefan Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
I might prefer using the AP Poll, which is released Sunday afternoon. Another option would be the Sagarin ratings, which are more transparent.

Back in the day, the B1G used to break conference ties for the Rose Bowl with a vote of the schools (I assume the ADs).

It would look ridiculous if the ACC chose a team that is lower in the polls.
(This post was last modified: 09-21-2016 12:31 PM by orangefan.)
09-21-2016 12:29 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-21-2016 12:29 PM)orangefan Wrote:  I might prefer using the AP Poll, which is released Sunday afternoon. Another option would be the Sagarin ratings, which are more transparent.

Back in the day, the B1G used to break conference ties for the Rose Bowl with a vote of the schools (I assume the ADs).

It would look ridiculous if the ACC chose a team that is lower in the polls.

In what way would the Sagarin ratings be any more transparent than the Sports Source Analytics rating is? Or the human polls, for that matter (since voters aren't required to explain their votes)? Keep in mind that this decision was not made based on results so far this year. The decision was made during the summer before anyone played a down.

This method might very well result in picking a team that is ranked lower in the human beauty contest polls. But it only picks a team that is rated significantly higher than both of the other two 7-1 teams. If the top two teams are rated with five spots of each other, the tie breaker goes to the head to head winner, who is more likely to ranked higher in the human polls for that reason. And if there is more separation than five places, odds are good that the higher ranked team by metrics would also be higher ranked in the polls.

And, if the team that wins the tie breaker also wins the CCG, chances are they would get even more separation in the human polls as a result of that win.

This unanimous decision by the league's ADs seems a prudent one, all things considered.
09-21-2016 01:15 PM
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-20-2016 08:50 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Well it is the 7th tie breaker and it beats drawing straws or flipping a coin.

This.

Besides, the point is moot after Louisville hangs 60 on Clemson.
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09-21-2016 01:53 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-21-2016 01:53 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  
(09-20-2016 08:50 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Well it is the 7th tie breaker and it beats drawing straws or flipping a coin.

This.

Besides, the point is moot after Louisville hangs 60 on Clemson.
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09-21-2016 02:20 PM
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CollegeCard Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-21-2016 01:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  This method might very well result in picking a team that is ranked lower in the human beauty contest polls. But it only picks a team that is rated significantly higher than both of the other two 7-1 teams. If the top two teams are rated with five spots of each other, the tie breaker goes to the head to head winner, who is more likely to ranked higher in the human polls for that reason. And if there is more separation than five places, odds are good that the higher ranked team by metrics would also be higher ranked in the polls.

And, if the team that wins the tie breaker also wins the CCG, chances are they would get even more separation in the human polls as a result of that win.

For what it's worth, that "within five spots" language no longer appears to be part of the 7th tiebreaker. According to the most respected stats guru and fan source for UofL athletics (who now also has media credentials), the weekly ACC football press release indicates that the tiebreaker is strictly off the SportSource rankings.

If that is in fact the case, you could have a ranked 4th or 5th miss out even if they beat the 3rd ranked team head to head. Perhaps there isn't a better option, but I wish there was more transparency.

http://louisvillesportslive.net/acc-twea...iebreaker/
09-21-2016 07:03 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-21-2016 07:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  
(09-21-2016 01:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  This method might very well result in picking a team that is ranked lower in the human beauty contest polls. But it only picks a team that is rated significantly higher than both of the other two 7-1 teams. If the top two teams are rated with five spots of each other, the tie breaker goes to the head to head winner, who is more likely to ranked higher in the human polls for that reason. And if there is more separation than five places, odds are good that the higher ranked team by metrics would also be higher ranked in the polls.

And, if the team that wins the tie breaker also wins the CCG, chances are they would get even more separation in the human polls as a result of that win.

For what it's worth, that "within five spots" language no longer appears to be part of the 7th tiebreaker. According to the most respected stats guru and fan source for UofL athletics (who now also has media credentials), the weekly ACC football press release indicates that the tiebreaker is strictly off the SportSource rankings.

If that is in fact the case, you could have a ranked 4th or 5th miss out even if they beat the 3rd ranked team head to head. Perhaps there isn't a better option, but I wish there was more transparency.

http://louisvillesportslive.net/acc-twea...iebreaker/

I have been searching in vain to find an official ACC document which includes the actual language for what Tiebreaker #7 currently is. All I can find is articles by third parties saying what they believe to be the case.

I guess I find it odd that all the league's ADs would agree to dropping this provision now, just because they needed to replace the BCS ranking in the wording. Why now, when that provision has existed from the beginning of the ACC as a two division league? The wording as it appears on the ACC's website still shows the old language (that is, the BCS ranking) which is clearly out of date. And while the league seems to have acknowledged that the ADs made a change, they make no mention of dropping this caveat.

It would be great if somebody could find a link to something official on the matter from the league rather than from a reporter or a "usually reliable source".
09-21-2016 09:12 PM
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Exclamation RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
The official ACC website page for tie-breakers still references the BCS (!)

ESPN is on top of it:
Quote:This particular ranking, though -- a team rating score metric -- is not given to the CFP committee members, and it's not free to the public like the former BCS standings, which was also used to break three-way ties. The highest-ranked team in the team rating score metric would win the Atlantic Division, and SportSource Analytics would permit the ACC to release the ranking of the teams in the conference in the event it is required to break a tie.

SBNation has a nice comparison of tie-breakers used by all FBS conferences.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...rence-rule
09-22-2016 07:38 AM
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CollegeCard Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-22-2016 07:38 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The official ACC website page for tie-breakers still references the BCS (!)

ESPN is on top of it:
Quote:This particular ranking, though -- a team rating score metric -- is not given to the CFP committee members, and it's not free to the public like the former BCS standings, which was also used to break three-way ties. The highest-ranked team in the team rating score metric would win the Atlantic Division, and SportSource Analytics would permit the ACC to release the ranking of the teams in the conference in the event it is required to break a tie.

SBNation has a nice comparison of tie-breakers used by all FBS conferences.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...rence-rule

While I agree with Ken d that it would be great to see this in black and white on the conference website, this language seems to back up that the "within 5 spots" aspect is gone.

I say that going off the above bolded text. I wouldn't bet money yet that it's gone, but that appears to be what we have going on.
09-22-2016 11:07 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
Maybe more important than who wins the tiebreaker is the impact on CCG ticket sales for an as yet unknown location. If fans of Atlantic Division teams don't know until the Sunday before the game that they will be going, it may be hard on attendance unless the new site is in a very attractive and fairly central location.

Charlotte surely had that going for them. But unless FSU is involved, a place like Tampa might be a bust. I think the league office needs to get this decision made quickly. It's unfortunate the SEC has dibs on Atlanta.
09-22-2016 12:03 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-22-2016 12:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  Maybe more important than who wins the tiebreaker is the impact on CCG ticket sales for an as yet unknown location. If fans of Atlantic Division teams don't know until the Sunday before the game that they will be going, it may be hard on attendance unless the new site is in a very attractive and fairly central location.

Charlotte surely had that going for them. But unless FSU is involved, a place like Tampa might be a bust. I think the league office needs to get this decision made quickly. It's unfortunate the SEC has dibs on Atlanta.

It would be nice if the SEC added a couple of western teams and maybe moved the championship game to, say, New Orleans...
09-22-2016 01:35 PM
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-22-2016 12:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  Maybe more important than who wins the tiebreaker is the impact on CCG ticket sales for an as yet unknown location. If fans of Atlantic Division teams don't know until the Sunday before the game that they will be going, it may be hard on attendance unless the new site is in a very attractive and fairly central location.

But unless FSU is involved, a place like Tampa might be a bust.

I wonder if at this point, the ACC doesn't just quietly line up 2-3 options in their back pocket and wait until Monday 10/3 to announce. They wouldn't admit it but their final decision would partial hinge on the result of Louisville @ Clemson.

If Clemson wins, I'd call them the favorite but FSU and UofL remain in the mix and perhaps Tampa gets consideration. If the Cards manage to get that tough road win, they are a huge favorite to win the division. With Louisville being further north, would they be more likely to announce that top team hosts the title game if they leave Death Valley with a win?
09-22-2016 05:05 PM
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
If it actually gets to the 7th tie breaker I propose that each head coach run the "beer mile." You drink a beer, run a lap. Typically you run 4 laps. If there is still a tie at the end of four you continue until someone wins.

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09-22-2016 07:22 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: ACC to turn to contractor if Atlantic Division ends in 3-way tie
(09-22-2016 05:05 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  
(09-22-2016 12:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  Maybe more important than who wins the tiebreaker is the impact on CCG ticket sales for an as yet unknown location. If fans of Atlantic Division teams don't know until the Sunday before the game that they will be going, it may be hard on attendance unless the new site is in a very attractive and fairly central location.

But unless FSU is involved, a place like Tampa might be a bust.

I wonder if at this point, the ACC doesn't just quietly line up 2-3 options in their back pocket and wait until Monday 10/3 to announce. They wouldn't admit it but their final decision would partial hinge on the result of Louisville @ Clemson.

If Clemson wins, I'd call them the favorite but FSU and UofL remain in the mix and perhaps Tampa gets consideration. If the Cards manage to get that tough road win, they are a huge favorite to win the division. With Louisville being further north, would they be more likely to announce that top team hosts the title game if they leave Death Valley with a win?

That's probably pretty close to the league's thinking, though I believe they would prefer a neutral site like DC with a Louisville win over Clemson. If the seventh tiebreaker isn't necessary due to a Cards win over the Tigers, then all three contenders would know for sure if they were in the CCG a full two weeks before the game, since all of them close the season OOC.
09-23-2016 11:01 AM
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