I see Eric has gone full-heretic, cherry-picker again.

(09-19-2016 10:18 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
4 Tim 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

You've successfully described Protestantism. Good job, Eric!

Let me add to it.

Ephesians 4: I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 making every effort to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.

7 But each of us was given grace according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it is said,


“When he ascended on high he made captivity itself a captive;
he gave gifts to his people.”

9 (When it says, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended[a] into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things.) 11 The gifts he gave were that some would be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ. 14 We must no longer be children, tossed to and fro and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people’s trickery, by their craftiness in deceitful scheming. 15 But speaking the truth in love, we must grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every ligament with which it is equipped, as each part is working properly, promotes the body’s growth in building itself up in love.

(09-19-2016 07:21 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 06:54 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  They don't worship Mary or the Saints. They ask them to intercede with God on their behalf.

1 Tim 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


The bible tells us plainly we should not be placing ANYONE between us and Christ, Not Mary and not deceased saints.

Oh really?

Care to quote the verses that precede your abused, cherry-picked verse?

1 Timothy 2New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

Instructions concerning Prayer

1 Tim 2: 2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity

Uh oh....INTERCESSIONS.

So obviously if you believe asking Saints to pray for you is "mediation" then you also believe that asking anyone to pray for you is also "mediation." So naturally you've never ever once asked anyone to pray for you or prayed for anyone because that violates your personal "mediation" doctrine.

And honestly, if you believe the Saints in Heaven are dead then you

1) are a nihilist
2) Have never read Revelation 5 or Revelation 8

(09-19-2016 06:47 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  The bible was written by Jews.

Wrong again.

Most of it was.

Many books of the New Testament weren't.

Also, be sure to thank your Mother Church for throwing out the garbage when your Bible was compiled 1600 years ago.

(09-19-2016 06:54 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I hate how every Christian discussion on this board turns into the false narrative that Catholicism is not Christian. It is ridiculous. I am from a Methodist background and still am a Methodist but I attended Catholic high school. Thus, I witnessed firsthand the Catholic faith. It is Christian. In fact, the Catholic religion teacher there saved my faith. It is outrageous for me to hear that he, Shiftyeagle and HOD are not Christians.

Many Protestants due to being naïve misunderstand several elements of Catholicism.

They don't worship Mary or the Saints. They ask them to intercede with God on their behalf. In fact, I have a patron saint, Saint George. I don't pray to him. I merely requested him to come to God with my prayers. Don't most, if not all, Christians speak out of our relatives looking down on us watching out? Same thing in theory.

Also, confession comes under fire. I personally are not a fan of it. I believe forgiveness comes between you and God, but Catholics aren't using it as a get out of jail free card.

Thank you.

Now CONVERT!!!! :)

(09-21-2016 01:38 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 11:07 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  And I belong to no denomination and am not a King James only believer (though I think it is the best and most accurate translation).

This applies to the pope, not non Catholics

The popes are the ones who claim they are infallible and perfect with all understanding above even the Apostles themselves, having the world call them "Holy Father" and the "vicar of Christ" while wearing crowns and sitting on a Throne made of gold.

But hey, by all means just attack me with furious passion if it makes you feel better.

I have nothing bad to say about you my brother. You can attack my faith and beliefs all you want. I'm not going to get mad and attack or mock you personally, I have too much respect for you as a brother in Christ. I'll be happy to discuss any doctrinal differences, but I'm not interested in a tit for tat snarky insult session.

(09-21-2016 01:46 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 07:21 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 06:54 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  They don't worship Mary or the Saints. They ask them to intercede with God on their behalf.

1 Tim 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


The bible tells us plainly we should not be placing ANYONE between us and Christ, Not Mary and not deceased saints.

Oh really?

Care to quote the verses that precede your abused, cherry-picked verse?

1 Timothy 2New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

Instructions concerning Prayer

1 Tim 2: 2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity

Uh oh....INTERCESSIONS.

So obviously if you believe asking Saints to pray for you is "mediation" then you also believe that asking anyone to pray for you is also "mediation." So naturally you've never ever once asked anyone to pray for you or prayed for anyone because that violates your personal "mediation" doctrine.

And honestly, if you believe the Saints in Heaven are dead then you

1) are a nihilist
2) Have never read Revelation 5 or Revelation 8

I don't even know what you think you are arguing about here, there is not a verse in the entire bible that tells us to pray TO anyone but God, and there is not a verse in the bible where a saint prays TO anyone but God.

Praying FOR someone is a completely different subject and has nothing to do with anything I said here.

(09-21-2016 01:41 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 10:18 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
4 Tim 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

You've successfully described Protestantism. Good job, Eric!

Let me add to it.

Ephesians 4: I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 making every effort to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.

7 But each of us was given grace according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it is said,


“When he ascended on high he made captivity itself a captive;
he gave gifts to his people.”

9 (When it says, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended[a] into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things.) 11 The gifts he gave were that some would be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ. 14 We must no longer be children, tossed to and fro and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people’s trickery, by their craftiness in deceitful scheming. 15 But speaking the truth in love, we must grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every ligament with which it is equipped, as each part is working properly, promotes the body’s growth in building itself up in love.

Amen brother, I couldn't agree more. I know a lot of different denominations and churchs who do not believe they have any gifts today at all, despite these and other verses.

Well, I agree with everything expect for the silly Protestant comment. There is not a single verse in the bible about having to be under the wing or rule of a Roman Catholic Church. Besides, the Church began in Jerusalem, not Rome.

I'm a lifelong southern baptist, so the idea of a central church and figurehead makes no sense to me. Then again baptists spun off due to each individuals ability to read and interpret the Bible for their self.

Do I think Catholics emphasize too many rituals and traditions? Yes. Anytime that you have to go through a few weeks of classes to learn how to part of a religion, to me, means that the religion is more about the rituals than the relationship.

Do I think Catholics are Christians? If they believe that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins, then yes. I'm not dumb enough to think that just showing up and going through the motions makes in a Christian. I don't think that praying to saints or Mary makes a difference personally, and makes little sense to me, just as saying the rosary makes no sense to me.

(09-20-2016 08:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:14 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:52 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Muslims believe that the bible is divinely inspired. I don't know what to tell you, whether you like it or not, you're talking to the same imaginary guy. You just use a different language.

Except for the problem that there is not one single verse in the bible about Mohammad or the religion of Islam.

NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE.

That is the elephant in the room for the Muslims. The entire religion was created out of thin air almost 700 years after Christ in the middle ages.

(09-20-2016 06:21 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  2/3rds of the religions involved would disagree with your post. That aside, if Jesus is a central figure in the OT, and Jews believe in the OT, then how are you not talking to the same dude? The same goes for Muslims. If they're following a bastardized version of the OT, how are they not in the club?

People can claim Elvis is alive, that does not mean there is evidence to support it.

Muslim do NOT follow any version of the OT, they follow the Koran, which is completely separate book from the Bible and was written by Mohammad himself.

Again, you are asking these question because you have never read the Bible yourself, but yet you seem to think you are in a position to discuss and debate its contents.

Jesus IS the God of the OT. Christians follow and Worship the SAME GOD the Jews did.

The Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, just as the OT prophesied they would do.

There is nothing in the OT concerning Mohammad or the religion of Islam.

Its just not in there. The OT is all about the Jews and the coming Messiah and the gentile church that followed for the next 2000 years.

1) Jews would say the same thing about Christianity. That's how branch-off religions work.

2) No, I'm asking these questions because I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome of the answers. And I've actually read the bible. Your arrogance is is astoundingas your lack of logic. You refute my assertion that Jews and Christians worship the same guy by saying "Christians follow and Worship the SAME GOD the Jews did." Given that the Jews never stopped worshiping the same God, I don't know what to tell you other than I agree. Yes, both of you wear different goofy clothes, and both of you speak in different languages, but none of you are special snowflakes. You're all in the same boat - whether you like it or not.

Christians worship Jesus. Jews don't recognize Jesus as God.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

Is Christianity not monotheistic?

Yes, ever heard of the Trinity? Jesus is God in the flesh.

(09-21-2016 07:40 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:14 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:52 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Except for the problem that there is not one single verse in the bible about Mohammad or the religion of Islam.

NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE.

That is the elephant in the room for the Muslims. The entire religion was created out of thin air almost 700 years after Christ in the middle ages.





People can claim Elvis is alive, that does not mean there is evidence to support it.

Muslim do NOT follow any version of the OT, they follow the Koran, which is completely separate book from the Bible and was written by Mohammad himself.

Again, you are asking these question because you have never read the Bible yourself, but yet you seem to think you are in a position to discuss and debate its contents.

Jesus IS the God of the OT. Christians follow and Worship the SAME GOD the Jews did.

The Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, just as the OT prophesied they would do.

There is nothing in the OT concerning Mohammad or the religion of Islam.

Its just not in there. The OT is all about the Jews and the coming Messiah and the gentile church that followed for the next 2000 years.

1) Jews would say the same thing about Christianity. That's how branch-off religions work.

2) No, I'm asking these questions because I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome of the answers. And I've actually read the bible. Your arrogance is is astoundingas your lack of logic. You refute my assertion that Jews and Christians worship the same guy by saying "Christians follow and Worship the SAME GOD the Jews did." Given that the Jews never stopped worshiping the same God, I don't know what to tell you other than I agree. Yes, both of you wear different goofy clothes, and both of you speak in different languages, but none of you are special snowflakes. You're all in the same boat - whether you like it or not.

Christians worship Jesus. Jews don't recognize Jesus as God.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

Is Christianity not monotheistic?

Yes, ever heard of the Trinity? Jesus is God in the flesh.

It's no small wonder that no one was seriously injured performing the mental gymnastics required to assert that Jesus was divine, the begotten son of God, but that there was still only one God. I wonder how long it took to purge all the followers of Jesus who did not believe him to be divine.

(09-21-2016 03:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 07:40 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:14 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:52 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  1) Jews would say the same thing about Christianity. That's how branch-off religions work.

2) No, I'm asking these questions because I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome of the answers. And I've actually read the bible. Your arrogance is is astoundingas your lack of logic. You refute my assertion that Jews and Christians worship the same guy by saying "Christians follow and Worship the SAME GOD the Jews did." Given that the Jews never stopped worshiping the same God, I don't know what to tell you other than I agree. Yes, both of you wear different goofy clothes, and both of you speak in different languages, but none of you are special snowflakes. You're all in the same boat - whether you like it or not.

Christians worship Jesus. Jews don't recognize Jesus as God.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

Is Christianity not monotheistic?

Yes, ever heard of the Trinity? Jesus is God in the flesh.

It's no small wonder that no one was seriously injured performing the mental gymnastics required to assert that Jesus was divine, the begotten son of God, but that there was still only one God. I wonder how long it took to purge all the followers of Jesus who did not believe him to be divine.

It's like the gymnastics required to say that even though Jews worship Yahweh and Christians worship God the Father, who everyone agrees is the same person, Christians don't worship the same God as Jews, despite being a monotheistic religion. I'll buy that the two groups worship the same being differently, but saying that they talk to two different guys is mind blowingly void of any critical thought.

(09-21-2016 06:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 03:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 07:40 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:14 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Christians worship Jesus. Jews don't recognize Jesus as God.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

Is Christianity not monotheistic?

Yes, ever heard of the Trinity? Jesus is God in the flesh.

It's no small wonder that no one was seriously injured performing the mental gymnastics required to assert that Jesus was divine, the begotten son of God, but that there was still only one God. I wonder how long it took to purge all the followers of Jesus who did not believe him to be divine.

It's like the gymnastics required to say that even though Jews worship Yahweh and Christians worship God the Father, who everyone agrees is the same person, Christians don't worship the same God as Jews, despite being a monotheistic religion. I'll buy that the two groups worship the same being differently, but saying that they talk to two different guys is mind blowingly void of any critical thought.

I've never heard anyone say Jews and Christians worship a different God until you did.

You just made all that up.

All Christians know they worship Yahweh, who is God the Father.

(09-20-2016 09:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 09:44 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Is Christianity not monotheistic?

It is monotheistic. Don't confuse the trinity as polytheism.

He has thoroughly illustrated he does not understand even the most basic differences between the 3 religions at all and has no interest in doing so.

Most here can see that plainly now.

(09-20-2016 08:36 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  For someone that claims to base things in fact, you're in incredibly short supply of them. Without a shred of evidence - nay, without even trying to hint at a shred of evidence, you make wild proclamations about me. You haven't even met me. You have no idea who I am, or what I've done.

Beyond that, I have (and consistently do) claim to believe in statistics. Statistically speaking, you are wrong. You continually make outlandish claims and have yet to provide *any* worthwhile evidence - any. You're like one of those nut jobs who clings to the belief that there is something greater because their mind is too feeble to handle the reality that they aren't a special snowflake. I feel like I'm talking to a 14 year old kid who is 1/128th <insert random minority here> and who identifies as a mythical creature, like one of the giants that you mentioned in an earlier post. Now I have no idea if that's what you're really like -we've never knowingly met - but that's what you sound like.

Betond those shortcomings in your post, you are wrong on another point. It's not that I don't believe in God. It just depends on the definition of said God. Is there some creation force? Probably - we exist. Are there beings with the power to make material changes to the world around them? Yup - us. Are there other being and/or forces? Maybe - I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know.

Now lost the incredible insecurity that's clouding you, and think about what you're saying. If God was all powerful, why would God care if you sucked up to him? If God was also all good, why would God want you to spew hate? If God is also omniscient, why is there evil?l in the world?

But going back to your posts and using your own words, Jews would disagree with you about Jesus being predicted in the OT, just like you disagree with Muslims. I'm pretty much quoting you and you're arguing with me.

I get that you hate Catholics, Muslims, and possibly Jews (I don't know), but your hatred doesn't change the fact that you're talking to the same God. I'm sorry. If you don't want it to be that way, you're going to have to change religions. I don't think that Zorastrianism has been used in a while on a large scale. You might give that a whirl.

All you are interested in doing is insulting people, twisting what was said, mocking their religion and trolling.

Your posts and your lack of basic information about Judaism, Christianity and Islam has been exposed here and speaks for itself.

But I still forgive you for your insults and have nothing but love for you. Peace and grace to you my friend.

God be with you.

I don't think that you grasp the concept of rhetorical questions.

(09-21-2016 07:48 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 06:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 03:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 07:40 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Is Christianity not monotheistic?

Yes, ever heard of the Trinity? Jesus is God in the flesh.

It's no small wonder that no one was seriously injured performing the mental gymnastics required to assert that Jesus was divine, the begotten son of God, but that there was still only one God. I wonder how long it took to purge all the followers of Jesus who did not believe him to be divine.

It's like the gymnastics required to say that even though Jews worship Yahweh and Christians worship God the Father, who everyone agrees is the same person, Christians don't worship the same God as Jews, despite being a monotheistic religion. I'll buy that the two groups worship the same being differently, but saying that they talk to two different guys is mind blowingly void of any critical thought.

I've never heard anyone say Jews and Christians worship a different God until you did.

You just made all that up.

[i]All Christians know they worship Yahweh, who is God the Father.[i/i]

Bold: What are you talking about? Seriously, I bet I have 5 posts on this thread where I say that they're the same dude. I think one of them even uses those exact words.

Bold and underlined: see post #148

Italics: Im not sure that you do. You seem to keep changing your mind.

(09-20-2016 09:44 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 08:14 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:52 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 06:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Except for the problem that there is not one single verse in the bible about Mohammad or the religion of Islam.

NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE.

That is the elephant in the room for the Muslims. The entire religion was created out of thin air almost 700 years after Christ in the middle ages.





People can claim Elvis is alive, that does not mean there is evidence to support it.

Muslim do NOT follow any version of the OT, they follow the Koran, which is completely separate book from the Bible and was written by Mohammad himself.

Again, you are asking these question because you have never read the Bible yourself, but yet you seem to think you are in a position to discuss and debate its contents.

Jesus IS the God of the OT. Christians follow and Worship the SAME GOD the Jews did.

The Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, just as the OT prophesied they would do.

There is nothing in the OT concerning Mohammad or the religion of Islam.

Its just not in there. The OT is all about the Jews and the coming Messiah and the gentile church that followed for the next 2000 years.

1) Jews would say the same thing about Christianity. That's how branch-off religions work.

2) No, I'm asking these questions because I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome of the answers. And I've actually read the bible. Your arrogance is is astoundingas your lack of logic. You refute my assertion that Jews and Christians worship the same guy by saying "Christians follow and Worship the SAME GOD the Jews did." Given that the Jews never stopped worshiping the same God, I don't know what to tell you other than I agree. Yes, both of you wear different goofy clothes, and both of you speak in different languages, but none of you are special snowflakes. You're all in the same boat - whether you like it or not.

Christians worship Jesus. Jews don't recognize Jesus as God.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

Is Christianity not monotheistic?

It is monotheistic. Don't confuse the trinity as polytheism.

That's my very point.

(09-21-2016 08:01 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 07:48 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 06:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 03:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-21-2016 07:40 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Yes, ever heard of the Trinity? Jesus is God in the flesh.

It's no small wonder that no one was seriously injured performing the mental gymnastics required to assert that Jesus was divine, the begotten son of God, but that there was still only one God. I wonder how long it took to purge all the followers of Jesus who did not believe him to be divine.

It's like the gymnastics required to say that even though Jews worship Yahweh and Christians worship God the Father, who everyone agrees is the same person, Christians don't worship the same God as Jews, despite being a monotheistic religion. I'll buy that the two groups worship the same being differently, but saying that they talk to two different guys is mind blowingly void of any critical thought.

I've never heard anyone say Jews and Christians worship a different God until you did.

You just made all that up.

[i]All Christians know they worship Yahweh, who is God the Father.[i/i]

Bold: What are you talking about? Seriously, I bet I have 5 posts on this thread where I say that they're the same dude. I think one of them even uses those exact words.

Bold and underlined: see post #148

Italics: Im not sure that you do. You seem to keep changing your mind.

Obvious trolling.

The pope is not a God.