Win your conference/league you move up the next year
Middle of the pack stays
Lose your conference you drop down

All this talk about G5 teams being underrated and could/can compete with the P5 and the opposite, P5 teams that have no business competing against their current peers.

Which schools do you see dropping down to the G5 or moving up to the P5 on a regular basis if this were the case.

(09-18-2016 03:43 AM)GhentFan Wrote:  Win your conference/league you move up the next year
Middle of the pack stays
Lose your conference you drop down

All this talk about G5 teams being underrated and could/can compete with the P5 and the opposite, P5 teams that have no business competing against their current peers.

Which schools do you see dropping down to the G5 or moving up to the P5 on a regular basis if this were the case.

Actually there has been a lot of discussion over the past years where the top teams from each country would break off from their respective domestic leagues and create a true Champions League. So in effect EuroSoccer has been thinking more about morphing into a P5/G5 setup like CFB. These teams continue to get bribed into not breaking away. Sound familiar?

First we'd probably have to rearrange the conferences to have some geographic reasonableness at the P5 and G5 levels

Pac 12 > Mountain West - Colorado State + Idaho
SEC > Sun Belt + MTSU + WKU + NMSU + Southern Miss
Big 12 + Notre Dame + BYU > AAC West - Navy + CUSA West - Southern Miss + Colorado State + Wichita State + Missouri State
ACC - Notre Dame > AAC East + UMass + Army + Navy + CUSA East - MTSU - WKU
Big 10 > MAC

I promoted BYU to get an even number in the first division, then promoted Wichita State and Missouri State so both flights of the "Big 14" have 14 members.

Second flight division winners play for the right to get promoted. The last place teams in the first flight conferences play a 13th game to avoid relegation.


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Don't know, don't care.

(09-18-2016 11:47 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Don't know, don't care.

This

(09-18-2016 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 11:47 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Don't know, don't care.

This

Slow day.....

Ah - another promotion/relegation proposal. Why won't people understand that there are a whole lot of critical factors outside of on-the-field performance that matter to who schools want to formally associate themselves with? As someone else has noted, we're much more likely to see the wealthiest soccer clubs break away than seeing any type of pro/rel setup at any level in the US. There's a certain point where clubs like Manchester United would want stop subsidizing the less valuable clubs.

Kansas would be in the NAIA.

The B1G and the MAC are geographically intertwined, if those 26 teams divided into 2 conferences I think this season you would definitely see Western Michigan, Central Michigan and Toledo move UP and Illinois, Northwestern and Purdue move down.

(09-18-2016 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 11:47 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Don't know, don't care.

This

Why not? This arrangement would force schools with similar talent levels playing against their peers. It would end the debate of the top 1/2 of conference X is better than conference Y.

(09-18-2016 01:06 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Ah - another promotion/relegation proposal. Why won't people understand that there are a whole lot of critical factors outside of on-the-field performance that matter to who schools want to formally associate themselves with? As someone else has noted, we're much more likely to see the wealthiest soccer clubs break away than seeing any type of pro/rel setup at any level in the US. There's a certain point where clubs like Manchester United would want stop subsidizing the less valuable clubs.

This is just meant to spur a what if type of discussion. Perhaps it would be best left for the summer when no sports are going on.
I'm fully aware of the desire of hyper rich teams desire to break away.

You can formally associate yourself with another university in other ways than sports. There are plenty of Academic related, research related etc... groupings that rely on the merits of the research and it's graduates instead of sports.

(09-18-2016 03:56 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Kansas would be in the NAIA.

That's a little steep, but probably not far from the truth.

Just imagine how this would affect recruiting. The relegated teams would never be able to recruit enough talent to move back up for more than a short period of time.

Relegation works because European soccer teams have entirely different methods of acquiring talent compared to NCAA recruiting, including owning the rights to kids playing in youth leagues.

(09-18-2016 03:56 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Kansas would be in the NAIA.

Funny that you said that. Kansas was like the founding member of the Kansas Collegiate Athletic Conference which is still going today. The conference is now NAIA. Kansas's first football game was to Baker Kansas, and they lost. Kansas State, Wichita State, Washburn, Emporia State. Fort Hays State, Pittsburg State and some larger NCAA schools were part of the conference.

There was also an Oklahoma Intercollegiate Conference that Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Langston, Central Oklahoma, SW Oklahoma State, Oklahoma Baptist, Cameron, Rogers State, Phillips, SE Oklahoma State, East Central Oklahoma, Bacone and some others were conference mates at one time. That was before Missouri Intercollegiate Athletic Conference was formed which is now known as Missouri Valley Conference.

(09-18-2016 04:34 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 01:06 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Ah - another promotion/relegation proposal. Why won't people understand that there are a whole lot of critical factors outside of on-the-field performance that matter to who schools want to formally associate themselves with? As someone else has noted, we're much more likely to see the wealthiest soccer clubs break away than seeing any type of pro/rel setup at any level in the US. There's a certain point where clubs like Manchester United would want stop subsidizing the less valuable clubs.

This is just meant to spur a what if type of discussion. Perhaps it would be best left for the summer when no sports are going on.
I'm fully aware of the desire of hyper rich teams desire to break away.

You can formally associate yourself with another university in other ways than sports. There are plenty of Academic related, research related etc... groupings that rely on the merits of the research and it's graduates instead of sports.

We get one of these promotion/relegation discussions on this board every couple of months and it always devolves into some convoluted way to try to relegate schools like Wake Forest, Washington State and Rutgers while elevating Boise State and [insert favorite G5 school here].

I understand that there are other ways to formally associate schools outside of athletics, but the reality is that the athletic association carries disproportionate weight because it's the front porch of the university. The Ivy League is technically just an athletic league just like the MAC, but the Ivy League has become much more than that for academic and cultural reasons. It's a branding and identity marker that has value far beyond the athletic field. As a result, leagues like the Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12, etc. should always be free to use whatever athletic or non-athletic criteria that they want for their memberships. I guess I just have a visceral reaction to any league being forced to take anyone against their will. Schools should be free to associate with who they want for any reason (regardless of whether outsiders think that it's "fair").

The only result of a promotion/relegation scheme would be to give even more power to the top teams.

Here's why: Ohio State, Alabama, USC, Texas, etc would never ever be relegated. Schools like Iowa, Auburn, Oklahoma State, Washington, etc might be relegated some years. So no top recruit in his right mind would risk going to the mid-P5 schools if they have an offer from a top P5 school.

Just look at the winners of European soccer leagues. Despite having 20 teams in their leagues, Serie A, La Liga, and the Premiere League have each had only 4 teams win a championship since the mid-1990s. Compare that to MLB or the NFL: MLB has had 11 different champions since 2001. The NFL has had 9 different champions in the last 10 years.

you would see expenses go up dramatically and you would see live fan support crumble and you would see payouts to conferences decline dramatically as live broadcasting expenses went up and up

the end result would be the death of college sports at an even faster pace than now and eventually some groups of schools would get together and break away and get out from the stupidity of relegation

people that come up with this nonsense have no idea of the logistics of scheduling games, getting teams to and from games, having facilities for teams along with what many fans go through to make sure they can travel to see several games a year either at the home stajium or road games

What would the conferences look like? Probably the same because the NCAA has no say in who belongs to what conference.

(09-19-2016 05:44 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Just look at the winners of European soccer leagues. Despite having 20 teams in their leagues, Serie A, La Liga, and the Premiere League have each had only 4 teams win a championship since the mid-1990s.

The richest teams also buy the best players from less well-off teams each year, forcing those teams to take the cash they need and then rebuild again, and making it less likely they'll get promoted in the future. Imagine the best G5 football teams getting raided every single year not just for the ten best coaches in G5, but for the ten best players on every good team's roster.

or here's an idea, lose the P5/G5 label and this eliminate the 80/20 rev split. problem solved.

(09-19-2016 11:49 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  or here's an idea, lose the P5/G5 label and this eliminate the 80/20 rev split. problem solved.

You can remove any labels you want the revenue gap is always going to be there because while your program was sitting back chilling other programs were developing theirs.

(09-18-2016 03:43 AM)GhentFan Wrote:  Win your conference/league you move up the next year
Middle of the pack stays
Lose your conference you drop down

All this talk about G5 teams being underrated and could/can compete with the P5 and the opposite, P5 teams that have no business competing against their current peers.

Which schools do you see dropping down to the G5 or moving up to the P5 on a regular basis if this were the case.

Another Relegation Thread! Yippee!


Actually...hold still...