(09-18-2016 09:10 PM)george14 Wrote:  NDSU woulf smoke everyone in the MAC. No thanks.

Strange.

The MAC, in the past, has been criticized for taking FCS teams which aren't ready for FBS ball.

Now an opportunity to take a FCS team which plays like a B1G team and you say, "No".

Always better to add at the top than at the bottom...

(09-18-2016 11:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  One of NDSU's secrets is how they utilize weightlifting and workout programs. All their players are fully committed to it. Their players don't ever get winded and don't seem to get worn down, which was shown in the comeback against Iowa.

Northern Iowa is just about as good as NDSU for the past seven years, although their offense isn't up there now. UNI lost to Montana and E Washington just the season. UNI doesn't have the fan base that Dakota schools have though. NDSU had overtime games against EWU and Charleston Southern, so it's not like they are pulverizing FCS teams. EWU has NFL class receivers and they might win FCS this year.

North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming and Montana have amazing fan basis. I Wyoming they have the Cowboys and if they were any good they would always sell out. In South Dakota you are either a Coyote or a Jack Rabbit, it's all about USD and SDSU in that state. In Montana, that state's in state rivalry is 2nd to none in my opinion. You are either a U of M Grizz or a MSU Bobcat. I have been in that state during rivalry week, everyone in the state picks a side. North Dakota and North Dakota State is another great rivalry. In all these states they lack a professional team and they lack a P5 team so there is no competition with better programs. In Kalamazoo within 200 miles there are 3 NFL teams (Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis and 5 P5 schools (UM, MSU, ND, NU and PU), that is extremely hard to compete with.

(09-19-2016 05:54 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 09:10 PM)george14 Wrote:  NDSU woulf smoke everyone in the MAC. No thanks.

Strange.

The MAC, in the past, has been criticized for taking FCS teams which aren't ready for FBS ball.

Now an opportunity to take a FCS team which plays like a B1G team and you say, "No".

Always better to add at the top than at the bottom...

Was a joke.

ND St. should stay where they are in FCS or join the MWC if they can get an invite. There really aren't a lot of other practical options. It's not really a problem being the biggest fish in the small pond of FCS. The problem in FCS is being one of the 90% of the small fish.

If North Dakota State was sincerely interested in FBS, the MAC would have to seriously consider it. The Mountain West would, too.

(09-19-2016 08:24 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  If North Dakota State was sincerely interested in FBS, the MAC would have to seriously consider it. The Mountain West would, too.

I think the MWC should consider them....

Would you rather have NDSU rather than (fill in name of MWC school one wants to insult)?

EDIT: Do not list WYO (EMU plays them Friday night on 'national' TV).

If you want to "insult" a school, maybe Hawaii (good school, paradise on earth, etc. but too far to travel from the mainland).

(09-19-2016 07:18 AM)John52168 Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 11:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  One of NDSU's secrets is how they utilize weightlifting and workout programs. All their players are fully committed to it. Their players don't ever get winded and don't seem to get worn down, which was shown in the comeback against Iowa.

Northern Iowa is just about as good as NDSU for the past seven years, although their offense isn't up there now. UNI lost to Montana and E Washington just the season. UNI doesn't have the fan base that Dakota schools have though. NDSU had overtime games against EWU and Charleston Southern, so it's not like they are pulverizing FCS teams. EWU has NFL class receivers and they might win FCS this year.

North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming and Montana have amazing fan basis. I Wyoming they have the Cowboys and if they were any good they would always sell out. In South Dakota you are either a Coyote or a Jack Rabbit, it's all about USD and SDSU in that state. In Montana, that state's in state rivalry is 2nd to none in my opinion. You are either a U of M Grizz or a MSU Bobcat. I have been in that state during rivalry week, everyone in the state picks a side. North Dakota and North Dakota State is another great rivalry. In all these states they lack a professional team and they lack a P5 team so there is no competition with better programs. In Kalamazoo within 200 miles there are 3 NFL teams (Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis and 5 P5 schools (UM, MSU, ND, NU and PU), that is extremely hard to compete with.

I have lived here since '96, and I can attest that the Montana/Montana State rivalry is uniquely great. My wife is a Griz. Everyone identifies themselves as a Griz or Bobcat. The whole state gets up for it all year. Literally, all year long! I have never seen anything like it (not even Michigan/Michigan State).

However, something always struck me as being a little "off" about the whole thing. I finally figured out what is odd about this rivalry a couple of years ago... While it is a great rivalry filled with passion, it is too polite! When the game is over, Griz fans and Bobcat fans will go get a drink together. There is only civility. I have never, not even once, seen any actual hatred towards the other team. When the Grizzlies and Bobcats aren't playing each other, the fans always root for the other in-state team. They genuinely seem to like and respect each other (while still maintaining a huge rivalry).

Maybe it is just my perspective as a Western alumnus, but this is weird. I hate Central. I'm certainly not going to have a friendly conversation with a Chip after the game. I'm never going to root for them. I want them to lose - often - and badly.

As a side note: the media also needs to quit trying to market the game as "The Brawl of the Wild". No one calls it that. It is simply known as, "Cat-Griz". If you attend the game (which is a great game day atmosphere!), everyone will know you are from out of state if you call it the Brawl of the Wild.

(09-19-2016 02:26 PM)Montana Bronco Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 07:18 AM)John52168 Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 11:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  One of NDSU's secrets is how they utilize weightlifting and workout programs. All their players are fully committed to it. Their players don't ever get winded and don't seem to get worn down, which was shown in the comeback against Iowa.

Northern Iowa is just about as good as NDSU for the past seven years, although their offense isn't up there now. UNI lost to Montana and E Washington just the season. UNI doesn't have the fan base that Dakota schools have though. NDSU had overtime games against EWU and Charleston Southern, so it's not like they are pulverizing FCS teams. EWU has NFL class receivers and they might win FCS this year.

North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming and Montana have amazing fan basis. I Wyoming they have the Cowboys and if they were any good they would always sell out. In South Dakota you are either a Coyote or a Jack Rabbit, it's all about USD and SDSU in that state. In Montana, that state's in state rivalry is 2nd to none in my opinion. You are either a U of M Grizz or a MSU Bobcat. I have been in that state during rivalry week, everyone in the state picks a side. North Dakota and North Dakota State is another great rivalry. In all these states they lack a professional team and they lack a P5 team so there is no competition with better programs. In Kalamazoo within 200 miles there are 3 NFL teams (Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis and 5 P5 schools (UM, MSU, ND, NU and PU), that is extremely hard to compete with.

I have lived here since '96, and I can attest that the Montana/Montana State rivalry is pretty great. My wife is a Griz. Everyone identifies themselves as a Griz or Bobcat. The whole state gets up for it all year. Literally, all year long! I have never seen anything like it (not even Michigan/Michigan State).

However, something always struck me as being a little "off" about the whole thing. I finally figured out what is odd about this rivalry a couple of years ago... While it is a great rivalry filled with passion, it is too polite! When the game is over, Griz fans and Bobcat fans will go get a drink together. There is only civility. I have never, not even once, seen any actual hatred towards the other team. When the Grizzlies and Bobcats aren't playing each other, the fans always root for the other in-state team. They genuinely seem to like and respect each other (while still maintaining a huge rivalry).

Maybe it is just my perspective as a Western alumnus, but this is weird. I hate Central. I'm certainly not going to have a friendly conversation with a Chip after the game. I'm never going to root for them. I want them to lose - often - and badly.

As a side note: the media also needs to quit trying to market the game as "The Brawl of the Wild". No one calls it that. It is simply known as, "Cat-Griz". If you attend the game (which is a great game day atmosphere!), everyone will know you are from out of state if you call it the Brawl of the Wild.

I should also add: No matter how great NDSU, Montana, or any of these FCS schools out west are - I don't want them in the MAC. I also don't want Delaware or Stony Brook. It has nothing to do with their success on the field or the fan bases. They are simply too far geographically and have nothing in common with the MAC culturally. Call me old-fashioned, but I liked when all of the conferences were comprised of similar institutions (size, scope, attitude, etc). I love that the MAC has retained that flavor.

FWIW (which is nothing) but was watching PTI and either Wilbon or Kornheiser said the Big XII should add NDSU.

When NDSU wants FBS, it will happen. They will likely be the next Boise State at that point. I think that with the Mtn. West considering expansion, they may get a serious look from that conference. I agree that the culture and footprint of the MAC deserves some consideration if/when we expand. I think 12 full members is a nice, even number. When expansion happens, I am sure it will be a new addition that fits in with the rest of us. I think 11 of the 12 of us are pretty content where we are now. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the Big 12 and the American expansions where other schools, then Northern Illinois are concerned.

My biggest hope scenario = if the American loses two, and replaces them with one being NIU, they grab Navy as a full member, and we replace the Huskies with Army as a full member. I see the only way the service academies leaving the Patriot is at the same time.

But now, back to reality. I think the MAC will be where it's at for the foreseeable future, just like in the previous rounds of realignment craziness.

(09-19-2016 06:11 PM)PK_UToledo Wrote:  When NDSU wants FBS, it will happen. They will likely be the next Boise State at that point. I think that with the Mtn. West considering expansion, they may get a serious look from that conference. I agree that the culture and footprint of the MAC deserves some consideration if/when we expand. I think 12 full members is a nice, even number. When expansion happens, I am sure it will be a new addition that fits in with the rest of us. I think 11 of the 12 of us are pretty content where we are now. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the Big 12 and the American expansions where other schools, then Northern Illinois are concerned.

My biggest hope scenario = if the American loses two, and replaces them with one being NIU, they grab Navy as a full member, and we replace the Huskies with Army as a full member. I see the only way the service academies leaving the Patriot is at the same time.

But now, back to reality. I think the MAC will be where it's at for the foreseeable future, just like in the previous rounds of realignment craziness.

I don't want to disparage Wyoming, EMU's opponent Friday night, but if WYO fits in the MWC how can NDSU not?

Geographically a decent fit, better than with the MAC. Looking at a map, North Dakota almost touches Wyoming (although NDSU is on the other side of the state).

(09-20-2016 05:09 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I don't want to disparage Wyoming, EMU's opponent Friday night, but if WYO fits in the MWC how can NDSU not?

Geographically a decent fit, better than with the MAC. Looking at a map, North Dakota almost touches Wyoming (although NDSU is on the other side of the state).

NDSU is basically on the Minnesota border while U. of Wyoming is basically on the Colorado border. Northern Illinois is much closer to NDSU. Borderline bus range, at least for non-revenue sports where you don't care if the student-athletes complain about a 8.5 hour trip. U. of Wyoming in comparison is a 12 hour drive with a whole lot of nothing in between.

(09-20-2016 02:57 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 05:09 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I don't want to disparage Wyoming, EMU's opponent Friday night, but if WYO fits in the MWC how can NDSU not?

Geographically a decent fit, better than with the MAC. Looking at a map, North Dakota almost touches Wyoming (although NDSU is on the other side of the state).

NDSU is basically on the Minnesota border while U. of Wyoming is basically on the Colorado border. Northern Illinois is much closer to NDSU. Borderline bus range, at least for non-revenue sports where you don't care if the student-athletes complain about a 8.5 hour trip. U. of Wyoming in comparison is a 12 hour drive with a whole lot of nothing in between.

Dekalb is 600 miles from Fargo. I'd hate to see a bus full of students crank through that less than 9 hours. Especially at night and in the winter.

I believe, and could be wrong, that EMU uses a standard of 250 miles for bus vs. fly.

So we'd bus to Miami(O) but fly to play Coppin State (MBB, 2015).

I think the closest thing to an official standard is that the NCAA allocates bus or air travel money for post-season appearances based on a 400 mile threshold. I figured people in the big states were accustomed to driving longer distances. I once asked someone in Montana where I could find a liquor store, and he gave me directions to one "just down the road." Ended up being a 40 minute drive. Worth it for "Moose Drool Brown Ale" though. Anyway, UMass typically taps out at the 5 hour range, but I know UMaine doesn't balk at 8 hour bus trips for football, and they're the North Dakota of the East in terms of isolation.

Move NDSU to Wisconsin, and the MAC might be interested ... but for Fargo, it's not clear why more exposure in eastern North Dakota / western Minnesota is of that much interest to MAC Presidents.

(09-21-2016 05:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Move NDSU to Wisconsin, and the MAC might be interested ... but for Fargo, it's not clear why more exposure in eastern North Dakota / western Minnesota is of that much interest to MAC Presidents.

Maybe for TV sets that would actually be tuned to the game. We can talk all we want about potential viewership in Chicago but viewers there aren't interested.

(09-20-2016 03:18 PM)masttg Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 02:57 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 05:09 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I don't want to disparage Wyoming, EMU's opponent Friday night, but if WYO fits in the MWC how can NDSU not?

Geographically a decent fit, better than with the MAC. Looking at a map, North Dakota almost touches Wyoming (although NDSU is on the other side of the state).

NDSU is basically on the Minnesota border while U. of Wyoming is basically on the Colorado border. Northern Illinois is much closer to NDSU. Borderline bus range, at least for non-revenue sports where you don't care if the student-athletes complain about a 8.5 hour trip. U. of Wyoming in comparison is a 12 hour drive with a whole lot of nothing in between.

Dekalb is 600 miles from Fargo. I'd hate to see a bus full of students crank through that less than 9 hours. Especially at night and in the winter.

Excellent point. NIU is also pretty remote to the conference footprint out west. Deliberating on a school due to its proximity to an already distant school makes no sense. Moreover, given the chance, NIU would bolt, putting NDSU further away.

(09-20-2016 05:09 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 06:11 PM)PK_UToledo Wrote:  When NDSU wants FBS, it will happen. They will likely be the next Boise State at that point. I think that with the Mtn. West considering expansion, they may get a serious look from that conference. I agree that the culture and footprint of the MAC deserves some consideration if/when we expand. I think 12 full members is a nice, even number. When expansion happens, I am sure it will be a new addition that fits in with the rest of us. I think 11 of the 12 of us are pretty content where we are now. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the Big 12 and the American expansions where other schools, then Northern Illinois are concerned.

My biggest hope scenario = if the American loses two, and replaces them with one being NIU, they grab Navy as a full member, and we replace the Huskies with Army as a full member. I see the only way the service academies leaving the Patriot is at the same time.

But now, back to reality. I think the MAC will be where it's at for the foreseeable future, just like in the previous rounds of realignment craziness.

I don't want to disparage Wyoming, EMU's opponent Friday night, but if WYO fits in the MWC how can NDSU not?

Geographically a decent fit, better than with the MAC. Looking at a map, North Dakota almost touches Wyoming (although NDSU is on the other side of the state).

I think NDSU would make it into the MWC if they wanted to be there.

(09-21-2016 10:37 PM)PK_UToledo Wrote:  

(09-20-2016 05:09 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 06:11 PM)PK_UToledo Wrote:  When NDSU wants FBS, it will happen. They will likely be the next Boise State at that point. I think that with the Mtn. West considering expansion, they may get a serious look from that conference. I agree that the culture and footprint of the MAC deserves some consideration if/when we expand. I think 12 full members is a nice, even number. When expansion happens, I am sure it will be a new addition that fits in with the rest of us. I think 11 of the 12 of us are pretty content where we are now. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the Big 12 and the American expansions where other schools, then Northern Illinois are concerned.

My biggest hope scenario = if the American loses two, and replaces them with one being NIU, they grab Navy as a full member, and we replace the Huskies with Army as a full member. I see the only way the service academies leaving the Patriot is at the same time.

But now, back to reality. I think the MAC will be where it's at for the foreseeable future, just like in the previous rounds of realignment craziness.

I don't want to disparage Wyoming, EMU's opponent Friday night, but if WYO fits in the MWC how can NDSU not?

Geographically a decent fit, better than with the MAC. Looking at a map, North Dakota almost touches Wyoming (although NDSU is on the other side of the state).

I think NDSU would make it into the MWC if they wanted to be there.

Agree and I'm surprised they haven't made the move. Playing schools like Boise would be great.

I'm wondering if they'd have to build a NEW domed stadium to join the MWC.

That could cost hundreds of million dollars?