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westwolf Offline
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Boren's latest
I swear, these Big 12 guys should be taken behind the woodshed for stringing everyone along all summer. A few months ago they were indicating expansion by as early as 2017 with 4, then 2 teams and a decision "before the season starts" so as not to distract from the games.

They should be told to say NOW either "No expansion for foreseeable future" or "We're adding XX and YY for 20** season" and let everyone get on with it.

What a dysfunctional group. I have not been a fan of the AAC, but now I think it may be poised to pass the Big 12 in stature due to superior management.
09-15-2016 08:27 AM
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HuskyHawk Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Boren's latest
I think there is something to expanding by 2 rather than 4 to avoid poking ESPN and Fox to the maximum extent. So this is my (conjecture) summary of what he said:

1. To maintain the peace with the Networks, we really should expand by only 2, to get back to our original 12.
2. If we expand by only 2, Houston isn't going to be one of them. We need to expand the footprint in the way I want.

So we are where we thought all along. They realize 2 is the better number for network relations, but can't agree on just 2. Boren would rather not expand than expand by 2 with UH as one of them.
09-15-2016 08:32 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 08:27 AM)westwolf Wrote:  I swear, these Big 12 guys should be taken behind the woodshed for stringing everyone along all summer. A few months ago they were indicating expansion by as early as 2017 with 4, then 2 teams and a decision "before the season starts" so as not to distract from the games.

They should be told to say NOW either "No expansion for foreseeable future" or "We're adding XX and YY for 20** season" and let everyone get on with it.

What a dysfunctional group. I have not been a fan of the AAC, but now I think it may be poised to pass the Big 12 in stature due to superior management.

I really don't think the Big XII has been indicating any of the things you say. Rather, the media and internet chat sites have been inferring all manner of things, including the ones you mention.

From day one, when the media announced that the Big XII had decided to expand, fans accepted that as gospel, even though the league never said any such thing. The only thing the league agreed to, and the only thing they have ever said publicly, is that they would consider expanding. There are three possible outcomes to such consideration: expand now, expand later or expand never. None of those outcomes have ever been ruled out.

The dysfunction isn't with the Big XII. It's with the media and the fans.
09-15-2016 08:37 AM
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Georgia_Power_Company Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 08:32 AM)HuskyHawk Wrote:  I think there is something to expanding by 2 rather than 4 to avoid poking ESPN and Fox to the maximum extent. So this is my (conjecture) summary of what he said:

1. To maintain the peace with the Networks, we really should expand by only 2, to get back to our original 12.
2. If we expand by only 2, Houston isn't going to be one of them. We need to expand the footprint in the way I want.

So we are where we thought all along. They realize 2 is the better number for network relations, but can't agree on just 2. Boren would rather not expand than expand by 2 with UH as one of them.

It's ridiculous to me to be running scared of Houston. I think the best possible outcome of this is to add Houston and Cincinnati as full members and give BYU a scheduling agreement for football similar to what Notre Dame has with the ACC.
09-15-2016 08:40 AM
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f1do Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 08:40 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  
(09-15-2016 08:32 AM)HuskyHawk Wrote:  I think there is something to expanding by 2 rather than 4 to avoid poking ESPN and Fox to the maximum extent. So this is my (conjecture) summary of what he said:

1. To maintain the peace with the Networks, we really should expand by only 2, to get back to our original 12.
2. If we expand by only 2, Houston isn't going to be one of them. We need to expand the footprint in the way I want.

So we are where we thought all along. They realize 2 is the better number for network relations, but can't agree on just 2. Boren would rather not expand than expand by 2 with UH as one of them.

It's ridiculous to me to be running scared of Houston. I think the best possible outcome of this is to add Houston and Cincinnati as full members and give BYU a scheduling agreement for football similar to what Notre Dame has with the ACC.

I'm trying to figure out what is accomplished by a scheduling agreement with BYU though. Isn't that just saying we'll add you to our schedules but don't want to give you any conference money? Unless you are saying that the arrangement would give BYU access to Big 12 bowl games and revenue shares for bowl games like Notre Dame gets with the ACC.
09-15-2016 08:53 AM
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 08:53 AM)f1do Wrote:  
(09-15-2016 08:40 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  
(09-15-2016 08:32 AM)HuskyHawk Wrote:  I think there is something to expanding by 2 rather than 4 to avoid poking ESPN and Fox to the maximum extent. So this is my (conjecture) summary of what he said:

1. To maintain the peace with the Networks, we really should expand by only 2, to get back to our original 12.
2. If we expand by only 2, Houston isn't going to be one of them. We need to expand the footprint in the way I want.

So we are where we thought all along. They realize 2 is the better number for network relations, but can't agree on just 2. Boren would rather not expand than expand by 2 with UH as one of them.

It's ridiculous to me to be running scared of Houston. I think the best possible outcome of this is to add Houston and Cincinnati as full members and give BYU a scheduling agreement for football similar to what Notre Dame has with the ACC.

I'm trying to figure out what is accomplished by a scheduling agreement with BYU though. Isn't that just saying we'll add you to our schedules but don't want to give you any conference money? Unless you are saying that the arrangement would give BYU access to Big 12 bowl games and revenue shares for bowl games like Notre Dame gets with the ACC.

That's exactly it BYU would play a quasi Big 12 schedule and have access to Bowl games and the CFP via the Big 12 just like Notre Dame does through the ACC.
09-15-2016 09:04 AM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
Expand to 12 with uconn and cincy, break into two 6 team divisons and play 8 conference games. Cut a deal with byu to play 6 big 12 schools per year so they cycle through everybody h/a every 4 years + allow byu big 12 bowl access. The big 12 could cut the same deal with Air Force so they play 6 games per year, so 12 big 12 schools would have 8 conference games and either byu or Air Force. The wcc brings in Air Force and Seattle or Denver
09-15-2016 09:13 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Boren's latest
There is a lot of political posturing, no doubt. Presidents want the like-minded institutions (which is cloudy in the Big 12 to say the least), as well as the strong academic adds that will increase their conference's academic rankings. Athletic Directors want to increase the footprint and add quality athletic programs that will expand the strength of the league in a variety of sports, namely football. Football coaches want the best football adds period, unless of course that infringes on their recruiting territory and/or are hesitant to add more competition to the same footprint.

Everything we read/hear is an opinion from one of those angles. There are a lot of forces at play with regards to this situation. At the end of the day, the only collective that controls who is added is the Presidents. ADs/Coaches/Fans can pound their chests all they want, but they don't have control over the selection process.
09-15-2016 09:37 AM
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 08:37 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-15-2016 08:27 AM)westwolf Wrote:  I swear, these Big 12 guys should be taken behind the woodshed for stringing everyone along all summer. A few months ago they were indicating expansion by as early as 2017 with 4, then 2 teams and a decision "before the season starts" so as not to distract from the games.

They should be told to say NOW either "No expansion for foreseeable future" or "We're adding XX and YY for 20** season" and let everyone get on with it.

What a dysfunctional group. I have not been a fan of the AAC, but now I think it may be poised to pass the Big 12 in stature due to superior management.

I really don't think the Big XII has been indicating any of the things you say. Rather, the media and internet chat sites have been inferring all manner of things, including the ones you mention.

From day one, when the media announced that the Big XII had decided to expand, fans accepted that as gospel, even though the league never said any such thing. The only thing the league agreed to, and the only thing they have ever said publicly, is that they would consider expanding. There are three possible outcomes to such consideration: expand now, expand later or expand never. None of those outcomes have ever been ruled out.

The dysfunction isn't with the Big XII. It's with the media and the fans.

Or with Boren alone? Nearly everyone else has kept their opinions to themselves.
09-15-2016 09:43 AM
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RE: Boren's latest
Sounds like Boren is only going to get one of his three demands. CCG wasn't hard but expansion and a network might be impossible. I wonder if that is enough to challenge a GOR for the conference not doing its job to maximize money of its members
09-15-2016 09:45 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 09:45 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  Sounds like Boren is only going to get one of his three demands. CCG wasn't hard but expansion and a network might be impossible. I wonder if that is enough to challenge a GOR for the conference not doing its job to maximize money of its members

No, it isn't. That is not a condition of the GoR (nor is it the conference's job to overrule the wishes of its members).
09-15-2016 09:49 AM
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ccbfan Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
No expansion is what I always expected and I'll continue expecting that.

There's just isn't a candidate with 8 votes and the "top 2" of OU and UT are different. If they were the same they could probably get the other 8 to follow.

The big 4 candidates are have major blemishes

BYU - National backlash. Even though they're a great candidate academically and athletically until BYU changes the student code, Big 12 wont invite them.
Cinci - Good overall profile but major little brother to OSU, brings in a new market but very unknown how much they can bring. Not a great athletic department but strong in the two major sports.
Houston - Doesn't bring in any new markets. Good in football but overall athletic department weak.
Uconn - Sucks in all aspects of Football (Success, recruiting, Stadium). Major new markets in Hartford/NH which they own and partial in NYC and Boston. Best athletic department of the bunch. Great academically and have similar goals to schools like UT and OU (Land Grant, Top State School, Research). Again sucks in Football which is the main driver when there's no conference network.
09-15-2016 09:58 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Boren's latest
Coaches do not want the best football adds! LOL!

Coaches want to avoid any risk of losses, whatsoever.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2016 10:08 AM by MplsBison.)
09-15-2016 10:08 AM
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HuskyHawk Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 09:58 AM)ccbfan Wrote:  No expansion is what I always expected and I'll continue expecting that.

There's just isn't a candidate with 8 votes and the "top 2" of OU and UT are different. If they were the same they could probably get the other 8 to follow.

The big 4 candidates are have major blemishes

BYU - National backlash. Even though they're a great candidate academically and athletically until BYU changes the student code, Big 12 wont invite them.
Cinci - Good overall profile but major little brother to OSU, brings in a new market but very unknown how much they can bring. Not a great athletic department but strong in the two major sports.
Houston - Doesn't bring in any new markets. Good in football but overall athletic department weak.
Uconn - Sucks in all aspects of Football (Success, recruiting, Stadium). Major new markets in Hartford/NH which they own and partial in NYC and Boston. Best athletic department of the bunch. Great academically and have similar goals to schools like UT and OU (Land Grant, Top State School, Research). Again sucks in Football which is the main driver when there's no conference network.

UConn's fairly new football Stadium sucks? Hardly. It's football facilities are better than many P5 schools. http://www.jcj.com/burton-shenkman/ Success? Since 2003, it has two 9 win and four 8 win seasons. It had a share of the Big East championship twice. One bad coaching hire, but that's been fixed.
09-15-2016 10:11 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
If there is no resistance to 12 expand right away.

Go with Houston as a good FB addition and UConn for their basketball.

BYU and Cincinnati are nice to have but not immediately necessary IMO.

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09-15-2016 10:11 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
How about the Big Ten gives you back Nebraska, and we'll take UConn for the East (kick Indy over to the West). That's a win-win-win-win scenario.
09-15-2016 10:14 AM
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 08:53 AM)f1do Wrote:  
(09-15-2016 08:40 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  
(09-15-2016 08:32 AM)HuskyHawk Wrote:  I think there is something to expanding by 2 rather than 4 to avoid poking ESPN and Fox to the maximum extent. So this is my (conjecture) summary of what he said:

1. To maintain the peace with the Networks, we really should expand by only 2, to get back to our original 12.
2. If we expand by only 2, Houston isn't going to be one of them. We need to expand the footprint in the way I want.

So we are where we thought all along. They realize 2 is the better number for network relations, but can't agree on just 2. Boren would rather not expand than expand by 2 with UH as one of them.

It's ridiculous to me to be running scared of Houston. I think the best possible outcome of this is to add Houston and Cincinnati as full members and give BYU a scheduling agreement for football similar to what Notre Dame has with the ACC.

I'm trying to figure out what is accomplished by a scheduling agreement with BYU though. Isn't that just saying we'll add you to our schedules but don't want to give you any conference money? Unless you are saying that the arrangement would give BYU access to Big 12 bowl games and revenue shares for bowl games like Notre Dame gets with the ACC.

the only reason a scheduling agreement would work for the Big 12 is if the Big 12 was NOT going to expand and they were also going to split into divisions AND most importantly play fewer conference games

if the Big 12 expands there is no need for a scheduling agreement because the Big 12 would be foolishly believing that new members somehow made them stronger at the top where they need the most help and a scheduling agreement with BYU brings nothing in that case

if the Big 12 continues to play 9 conference games then the dumbest of all possible things to do is to split into divisions because that locks you into having a CCG with division winners and prevents you from having a CCG with the two best teams as you could without divisions

and the Big 12 could still have half the conference play BYU every 2 years, but why if they are staying with 9 conference games

that just means half the conference goes from 3 OOC games they have a choice of scheduling every two years to 2 and that is just the worst

if the Big 12 goes to 8 conference games then divisions with a CCG makes a modicum of sense because there is a chance you get your top division winners to miss each other and then play in the most meaningful of CCGs which is a non-rematch

but really with 10 teams and 8 conference games a rematch is highly possible as is the possibility of having a CCG that does not feature the two best teams in the conference

it also takes half the conference from having 4 OOC games they control every two years back to only 3 with little added benefit other than having VYU already on the schedule those two years which is not terrible, but perhaps some teams have other needs like WVU scheduling on the east coast

if the Big 12 went to 7 conference games, divisions and then had a scheduling agreement with BYU that would be the best of all possible solutions

you have a much lower chance of a CCG being a repeat, you have a higher chance of teams that are highly ranked being in the CCG, you have half the conference locked into an 8th "P5" quality game with BYU every two years and you give your other programs a great deal of freedom to schedule for their needs in the OOC be it for wins, for recruiting, for rivalry games in the OOC or for playoff chances or for anything in between
09-15-2016 10:14 AM
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HuskyHawk Offline
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RE: Boren's latest
(09-15-2016 10:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  How about the Big Ten gives you back Nebraska, and we'll take UConn for the East (kick Indy over to the West). That's a win-win-win-win scenario.

Sold! Plus we'd bring the hockey team.
09-15-2016 11:20 AM
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