(09-23-2016 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 12:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-22-2016 10:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-22-2016 07:20 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(09-22-2016 06:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I claim Houston gets zero present-day national fan credit for what its hoops and football did before 1995. I never said that was anything but my very educated opinion as someone who has followed college football and basketball very closely for 40 years.

What have you done to counter that? Nothing but mouth Coog-Fanboy blather. That's it, no facts.

You stated that in the last 20 years you have lived in 4 different parts of the country and no one equates UH with anything other than the fact that they lost power status in 95. That is complete nonsense on your part as people in their 40s and beyond know darn well what UH accomplished. As far as Coog fan boy nonsense, maybe you also need glasses as I did not attend or root for UH. I merely called you out for your post which has no basis in fact and zero to back it up. Just Quo being Quo.

Your claim that my knowledge based on living in four states is 'ridiculous' isn't a fact, it's just a hopeful coog-fan opinion. Houston's pre-1995 football history is basically unknown. There was a disconnect that happened when you were demoted in 1995.

It's just the way it is.

You seem to want to minimize the facts--almost to the point of wanting to pretend this stuff didnt happen. Well. sorry---it doesnt work that way. It happened.

The Heisman trophy happened. There is even a series of commercials based on "Heisman House" where Andre Wares Heisman is at the center of the gag. That commercial wasnt 30 years ago---that commercial is just a couple of years old and still airs today. The Cotton Bowl wins actually happened. The SWC championships happened. The Veer offense happened. That offense swept the country and it started at Houston. The Run and Shoot years actually happened. The Briles offense first was seen in the college game at UH. The Case Air Raid years actually happened. Now, yet again, the school is in the midst of another run with Herman at the helm.

The fact is UH has been in and out of the public eye a tremendous amount---especially for a G5 football program since the 70's. Frankly, other than TCU---I'd be hard pressed to name any G5 football program that has had more success and has a larger historical public profile than UH. All those accomplishments and runs are what creates name recognition in the general public. The idea that UH is unknown or synonymous with UTEP is simply a construct contained completely within the limits of your imagination. Anyone who has been a college football fan for 40 years knows that. By the way, in 1976---which was exactly 40 years ago, UH went 10-2, won the SWC and beat #4 Maryland in the Cotton Bowl. UH finished #4 in the nation that year.

Do you know that Ware, Klingler, and Keenum have thrown fewer NFL TD passes in their combined careers than 4 NFL QBs threw just last year? That hasn't helped the public memory.

The leading passer in TD's, yards, and completions is Keenum. The guy who's record Case shattered, never played a down in the NFL. I bet Keenum already has more NFL TD passes than Alabama stud AJ McKeron. Great college QBs do not necessarily translate to the pro game. They are two different games. That said, you just rattled off 4 recent UH QBs who had NFL careers.

(09-24-2016 12:04 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 12:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-22-2016 10:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-22-2016 07:20 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  You stated that in the last 20 years you have lived in 4 different parts of the country and no one equates UH with anything other than the fact that they lost power status in 95. That is complete nonsense on your part as people in their 40s and beyond know darn well what UH accomplished. As far as Coog fan boy nonsense, maybe you also need glasses as I did not attend or root for UH. I merely called you out for your post which has no basis in fact and zero to back it up. Just Quo being Quo.

Your claim that my knowledge based on living in four states is 'ridiculous' isn't a fact, it's just a hopeful coog-fan opinion. Houston's pre-1995 football history is basically unknown. There was a disconnect that happened when you were demoted in 1995.

It's just the way it is.

You seem to want to minimize the facts--almost to the point of wanting to pretend this stuff didnt happen. Well. sorry---it doesnt work that way. It happened.

The Heisman trophy happened. There is even a series of commercials based on "Heisman House" where Andre Wares Heisman is at the center of the gag. That commercial wasnt 30 years ago---that commercial is just a couple of years old and still airs today. The Cotton Bowl wins actually happened. The SWC championships happened. The Veer offense happened. That offense swept the country and it started at Houston. The Run and Shoot years actually happened. The Briles offense first was seen in the college game at UH. The Case Air Raid years actually happened. Now, yet again, the school is in the midst of another run with Herman at the helm.

The fact is UH has been in and out of the public eye a tremendous amount---especially for a G5 football program since the 70's. Frankly, other than TCU---I'd be hard pressed to name any G5 football program that has had more success and has a larger historical public profile than UH. All those accomplishments and runs are what creates name recognition in the general public. The idea that UH is unknown or synonymous with UTEP is simply a construct contained completely within the limits of your imagination. Anyone who has been a college football fan for 40 years knows that. By the way, in 1976---which was exactly 40 years ago, UH went 10-2, won the SWC and beat #4 Maryland in the Cotton Bowl. UH finished #4 in the nation that year.

Do you know that Ware, Klingler, and Keenum have thrown fewer NFL TD passes in their combined careers than 4 NFL QBs threw just last year? That hasn't helped the public memory.

The leading passer in TD's, yards, and completions is Keenum. The guy who's record Case shattered, never played a down in the NFL. I bet Keenum already has more NFL TD passes than Alabama stud AJ McKeron. Great college QBs do not necessarily translate to the pro game. They are two different games. That said, you just rattled off 4 recent UH QBs who had NFL careers.

Yes, they are "different games" in the same sense that high school and college football are "different games", one is at a higher level than the other.

When great college players fail at the NFL level it's typically for the same reason a great high school QB fails at the college level - he wasn't really that good, but was in a situation at the lower level that hided his deficiencies.

(09-23-2016 03:04 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 02:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:   No, *I* touched a nerve, and all the nervous coog fans jumped in.

You've been reduced to berating me about spouting 'opinions as facts' when it's been obvious I've been voicing an opinion about what fans remember about Houston.

Albeit a very learned and informed one.

I challenge you to find anything I have posted that wasn't a fact (or expressly listed as an opinion).

So what's the value in that? I mean, neither means that you have made any point worth mentioning whatsoever.

(09-23-2016 03:05 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 02:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 09:01 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Do you know that Ware, Klingler, and Keenum have thrown fewer NFL TD passes in their combined careers than 4 NFL QBs threw just last year? That hasn't helped the public memory.

Look Quo shifting the conversation yet again.....

I thought we were discussing college football.

Not shifting it at all. Just trying to explain why the great bulk of college fans make no connection between today's Houston program and the pre-1995 Houston program.

And the failure of those three QBs in the NFL could help explain it.

One has nothing to do with the other.

Do people rave about Southern Miss because of Brett Favre?

The latter example doesn't prove the point. It just means that if a college produces a star NFL player it doesn't necessarily mean that this creates shine for the college, something pretty well known.

But it surely does happen, and if those Houston QBs had become NFL stars, there is a good chance Houston's profile would be higher as a result, and crucially, would have stayed relevant during the 1990s and early 2000s (when Klingler and Ware would have been playing had they not flopped in the NFL) after Houston's program was demoted from Power level.

Say that it doesn't prove anything --- but there is no way in h___ you can say that Carson Wentz isn't generating positive advertising for NDSU!

(09-24-2016 08:39 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Say that it doesn't prove anything --- but there is no way in h___ you can say that Carson Wentz isn't generating positive advertising for NDSU!

Yep, he definitely is, which shows that NFL success can shine on a college program. Happens all the time.

A single counter-example disproves a general claim.

You may consider making your claim more specific.

(09-24-2016 09:03 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  A single counter-example disproves a general claim.

Only if the general claim is made in absolute terms, e.g., "an NFL star always creates shine for his college". But who has done that here? Oh, the Coog fan did.

I think it depends on the school. In Carson's case, having an NFL star come from North Dakota State is a bit of an exceptional case, and that's marketable.

(09-24-2016 08:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 12:04 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-23-2016 12:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-22-2016 10:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Your claim that my knowledge based on living in four states is 'ridiculous' isn't a fact, it's just a hopeful coog-fan opinion. Houston's pre-1995 football history is basically unknown. There was a disconnect that happened when you were demoted in 1995.

It's just the way it is.

You seem to want to minimize the facts--almost to the point of wanting to pretend this stuff didnt happen. Well. sorry---it doesnt work that way. It happened.

The Heisman trophy happened. There is even a series of commercials based on "Heisman House" where Andre Wares Heisman is at the center of the gag. That commercial wasnt 30 years ago---that commercial is just a couple of years old and still airs today. The Cotton Bowl wins actually happened. The SWC championships happened. The Veer offense happened. That offense swept the country and it started at Houston. The Run and Shoot years actually happened. The Briles offense first was seen in the college game at UH. The Case Air Raid years actually happened. Now, yet again, the school is in the midst of another run with Herman at the helm.

The fact is UH has been in and out of the public eye a tremendous amount---especially for a G5 football program since the 70's. Frankly, other than TCU---I'd be hard pressed to name any G5 football program that has had more success and has a larger historical public profile than UH. All those accomplishments and runs are what creates name recognition in the general public. The idea that UH is unknown or synonymous with UTEP is simply a construct contained completely within the limits of your imagination. Anyone who has been a college football fan for 40 years knows that. By the way, in 1976---which was exactly 40 years ago, UH went 10-2, won the SWC and beat #4 Maryland in the Cotton Bowl. UH finished #4 in the nation that year.

Do you know that Ware, Klingler, and Keenum have thrown fewer NFL TD passes in their combined careers than 4 NFL QBs threw just last year? That hasn't helped the public memory.

The leading passer in TD's, yards, and completions is Keenum. The guy who's record Case shattered, never played a down in the NFL. I bet Keenum already has more NFL TD passes than Alabama stud AJ McKeron. Great college QBs do not necessarily translate to the pro game. They are two different games. That said, you just rattled off 4 recent UH QBs who had NFL careers.

Yes, they are "different games" in the same sense that high school and college football are "different games", one is at a higher level than the other.

When great college players fail at the NFL level it's typically for the same reason a great high school QB fails at the college level - he wasn't really that good, but was in a situation at the lower level that hided his deficiencies.

The talent level at the NFL is just better. Archie Griffin is a perfect example. Two time Heisman winner. He was big enough and fast enough to be the best player in college football twice. But his size and speed wasn't good enough to accomplish much at the NFL. He needed more size or more speed. Those weren't "deficiencies" that were hidden. It just wasn't enough to succeed in the higher level of competition.

(09-24-2016 09:06 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 09:03 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  A single counter-example disproves a general claim.

Only if the general claim is made in absolute terms, e.g., "an NFL star always creates shine for his college". But who has done that here? Oh, the Coog fan did.

I guarantee every recruiter will point out the NFL stars and that helps.