(09-13-2016 11:44 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Keep the events in North Carolina. The ACC needs to standby the state.

I'm on a college campus. They've changed some of the men's rooms to "all-genders" and leave the women's room alone. It's super awkward.

But there's really no issue here. It shouldn't be legislated one way or another. Nobody gave a sh@t before about who used which bathroom.

I don't think the law is fair. I don't know why the state government did it. This is a freight train coming down the tracks against the state government of North Carolina. The ACC needs to get off the tracks and don't get tarnished with the State Government of North Carolina. They brought this on themselves.

(09-13-2016 11:22 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-13-2016 11:07 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  It is way too early for the ACC to consider a physical move. I believe they own the building in Greensboro. If the courts were to uphold the law then it would be time to look at options.

The logistics of a physical move are daunting. That's a lot of people to relocate. And it's one thing to move tournaments around. But what other single location makes more sense for the conference offices than the one we have?

South Carolina or maybe Southern Virginia. To buy a similar sized building in NY would be outrageous for the ACC price wise.

(09-13-2016 08:51 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(09-13-2016 08:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Just abolish that stupid law already.

Good luck with that. This is the final culmination of a battle between rural NC Republicans and the state's urban areas. The rural republicans have joined with out of state pubs that have moved into the Charlotte and Raleigh suburbs to form a governing coalition that is absolutely crazy. It's not real republicanism as most of you would know it. This crew have been at work taking the cities' airports, water systems, sewer systems, etc., and giving control of them to rural entities instead of the people who paid for these things. NC is a Dillon's Rule state - no home rule here.

These guys lose nothing personally from this stuff so they double and triple down. Traditional "business" republicans no longer exist in NC so there is no counterbalance to this in the party.

Everything that made NC great has been under attack - the University System, the Public Schools, the triple A rated Cities, etc., etc.

That Swofford and the entire UNC/Duke/UVa cabal have not been able to turn them should tell you all you need to know. Everyone is waiting for the 4th Circuit and Supreme Court to toss this thing. And the real issue is not the bathrooms - that's a red herring - the real issue is prevent people from suing for discrimination, and preventing cities from setting their own standards - something buried deeper in the bill.

I'm old enough to remember when Republicans were respectable, level-headed people in NC. Yes they were tight with a dollar and no they didn't particularly want to support a great deal of social change - but they weren't crazy.

That, and that.

Not even Jesse Helms in his complete "Helms-ness" was this crazy.

(09-13-2016 11:07 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  It is way too early for the ACC to consider a physical move. I believe they own the building in Greensboro. If the courts were to uphold the law then it would be time to look at options.

My recollection is that the city of Greensboro gave them the building or at least the use of it in exchange for getting the ACC offices. There may be some contractual obligations that would force the ACC to keep its offices in Greensboro.

I think the ACC will delay moving its offices and delay doing anything about conference championships after this school year in hopes that HB2 is found unconstitutional, which seems pretty likely.

Higher seed hosting is damn risky. UNC, Duke, BC, and UVa do not have the physical parking and access needed for more than 10K visitors - they can barely host the home crowd. VT does not have hotel facilities for that sized crowd. Tally is damn hard to get to on short notice. The weather in Blacksburg, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Pitt and Charlottesville can really suck that time of year. Miami and Pitt would have to work with the NFL.

I think you are stuck with Orlando, or Fed Ex in DC for anything outside NC on short notice that is not at Clemson, or Bobby Dodd.

If the offices had to move they would go to the SC side of Charlotte or Richmond.

Myrtle Beach would not be unthinkable.


That said, I would expect the seconding coming before the ACC left Greensboro.

(09-13-2016 12:53 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  If the offices had to move they would go to the SC side of Charlotte or Richmond.

Myrtle Beach would not be unthinkable.

I have no problem with moving events. Conference HQ is another story entirely, and an overreaction, IMO. How long ago was it that events were being moved out of South Carolina, for example? We can't pack up and go every time a state legislature does something stupid (and fixable), or conversely does something we like.

(09-13-2016 12:53 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  If the offices had to move they would go to the SC side of Charlotte or Richmond.

Myrtle Beach would not be unthinkable.


That said, I would expect the seconding coming before the ACC left Greensboro.

Carowinds!

Also not far from ESPN offices in South Charlotte (where I'm guessing the ACC Network HQ will be).

Will I get some delight out of the karma in play here I stand by my beliefs that neither the NCAA nor ACC have any business injecting themselves into the internal politics of a sovereign state government.

That being said....the ACC sure as hell didn't waste this much time piling on with the NCAA when it came to South Carolina, and there shouldn't have to be a vote on anything because the precedent has been set....if the NCAA pulls out then the ACC does as well.

Probably need to post a flood warning for Greensboro for the tears coming out of ACCHQ due to not being able to funnel the conference's money to their pals in NC in the future.

(09-13-2016 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Will I get some delight out of the karma in play here I stand by my beliefs that neither the NCAA nor ACC have any business injecting themselves into the internal politics of a sovereign state government.

That being said....the ACC sure as hell didn't waste this much time piling on with the NCAA when it came to South Carolina, and there shouldn't have to be a vote on anything because the precedent has been set....if the NCAA pulls out then the ACC does as well.

Probably need to post a flood warning for Greensboro for the tears coming out of ACCHQ due to not being able to funnel the conference's money to their pals in NC in the future.

I think the ACC and NCAA should stay out of the HB2 for two main reasons:

1. Sports is supposed to bring us together. Politics divides us. It would be nice to keep sports above the fray so it can provide us all with a much needed escape.

2. Boycotts always cause collateral damage on people and businesses with little or no influence over the issue at hand (other than their votes for the representatives, which cannot be immediately revisited). I felt this way about the boycott of SC over the confederate flag (which I supported taking down).

On another note, I'm just not comfortable with my daughter sharing a restroom or locker room with someone who was born a male. I'm just not ok with it. There is no hate or being judgmental intended towards anyone. I'm just a dad with a daughter. It's also very discouraging that there is so much demagoguery swirling about this issue. Somewhere along the way, it seems that Americans have lost the ability to disagree and remain friends. We paint each other with broad brush strokes and demonize one another for having different views (I'm guilty of that too, btw). That's really sad.

Moving conferences offices would be too short-sighted. The law will be overturned within a few years.

As for now, I'll echo the thought that I expect conference championships moved elsewhere, and the football title game will suffer even if the move was needed temporarily.

Man, if people would just research and read, it would be quite difficult for political parties to manipulate the masses. Unfortunately, that is not the case and the vast majority of Americans are too lazy or too stupid to use their own brain and form their own opinion. THE BATHROOM ISSUE IS A RED HERRING TO GET GULLIBLE PEOPLE TO NOT FOCUS ON THE REAL PROBLEM. This bill limits the power of local governments and dose not allow citizens to sue for discrimination. That is the real issue. Enough of the bathroom BS.

(09-13-2016 03:04 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(09-13-2016 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Will I get some delight out of the karma in play here I stand by my beliefs that neither the NCAA nor ACC have any business injecting themselves into the internal politics of a sovereign state government.

That being said....the ACC sure as hell didn't waste this much time piling on with the NCAA when it came to South Carolina, and there shouldn't have to be a vote on anything because the precedent has been set....if the NCAA pulls out then the ACC does as well.

Probably need to post a flood warning for Greensboro for the tears coming out of ACCHQ due to not being able to funnel the conference's money to their pals in NC in the future.

I think the ACC and NCAA should stay out of the HB2 for two main reasons:

1. Sports is supposed to bring us together. Politics divides us. It would be nice to keep sports above the fray so it can provide us all with a much needed escape.

2. Boycotts always cause collateral damage on people and businesses with little or no influence over the issue at hand (other than their votes for the representatives, which cannot be immediately revisited). I felt this way about the boycott of SC over the confederate flag (which I supported taking down).

On another note, I'm just not comfortable with my daughter sharing a restroom or locker room with someone who was born a male. I'm just not ok with it. There is no hate or being judgmental intended towards anyone. I'm just a dad with a daughter. It's also very discouraging that there is so much demagoguery swirling about this issue. Somewhere along the way, it seems that Americans have lost the ability to disagree and remain friends. We paint each other with broad brush strokes and demonize one another for having different views (I'm guilty of that too, btw). That's really sad.

Are you more comfortable with her sharing a locker room with someone who was born a female but is now a male? That's what HB2 demands, if that young man hasn't had his birth certificate changed yet.

Pretty simple issue as far as I'm concerned: If an individual has male plumbing the logical restroom to use is the one with urinals on the wall. If one has no plumbing that lends itself to use of a urinal use the restroom with no urinals.

(09-13-2016 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Will I get some delight out of the karma in play here I stand by my beliefs that neither the NCAA nor ACC have any business injecting themselves into the internal politics of a sovereign state government.

That being said....the ACC sure as hell didn't waste this much time piling on with the NCAA when it came to South Carolina, and there shouldn't have to be a vote on anything because the precedent has been set....if the NCAA pulls out then the ACC does as well.

Probably need to post a flood warning for Greensboro for the tears coming out of ACCHQ due to not being able to funnel the conference's money to their pals in NC in the future.

States haven't been "sovereign" since Appomattox.

"State's rights" has always been the refuge of those who wish to discriminate, as was seen during the slavery and Jim Crow years.

North Carolina brought all of this on themselves.

(09-14-2016 06:55 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(09-13-2016 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Will I get some delight out of the karma in play here I stand by my beliefs that neither the NCAA nor ACC have any business injecting themselves into the internal politics of a sovereign state government.

That being said....the ACC sure as hell didn't waste this much time piling on with the NCAA when it came to South Carolina, and there shouldn't have to be a vote on anything because the precedent has been set....if the NCAA pulls out then the ACC does as well.

Probably need to post a flood warning for Greensboro for the tears coming out of ACCHQ due to not being able to funnel the conference's money to their pals in NC in the future.

States haven't been "sovereign" since Appomattox.

"State's rights" has always been the refuge of those who wish to discriminate, as was seen during the slavery and Jim Crow years.

North Carolina brought all of this on themselves.

You are 100% correct. I live in Northern Va and love NC and the south but will never move back to NC as long as these idiots are in charge of the state. They can't stand people want to progress and change. Will end up ruining one of the fastest growing state in the country.

(09-14-2016 06:55 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(09-13-2016 01:16 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Will I get some delight out of the karma in play here I stand by my beliefs that neither the NCAA nor ACC have any business injecting themselves into the internal politics of a sovereign state government.

That being said....the ACC sure as hell didn't waste this much time piling on with the NCAA when it came to South Carolina, and there shouldn't have to be a vote on anything because the precedent has been set....if the NCAA pulls out then the ACC does as well.

Probably need to post a flood warning for Greensboro for the tears coming out of ACCHQ due to not being able to funnel the conference's money to their pals in NC in the future.

States haven't been "sovereign" since Appomattox.

"State's rights" has always been the refuge of those who wish to discriminate, as was seen during the slavery and Jim Crow years.

North Carolina brought all of this on themselves.

They certainly did bring this all on themselves. IMO, this is a classic case of searching for a problem where none existed. Prior to NC making an issue of this, this "issue" existed nowhere else. Why? Because people who identified as a "male" or "female" simply used the bathrooms for which they identified with and nobody was the wiser. No problems.

Well, now we know.

Move neutral-site events. Keep offices. (Why not? The league should outlast NC House Bill 2 by at least a century.)

Thanks for an interesting discussion. See the new thread.