Anybody see that App crushed ODU?

attendance was 23k in Boone. How is it that App State moved up to FBS and their attendance goes down from what the drew in FCS.

And yes, I know they will have a big crowd for Miami.

We were told a move to FBS would bring more interest from the casual fan. Can somebody explain whats happening at ASU then?

We have been told Bridgeforth is going to see dwindling attendance due to our low level opponents. We had 20k.

What else have we been told that isnt true???? I will up my donation 500% when we put on the big boy pants???

I think what is happening at App from an attendance perspective is a sign that the attendance grass may not be greener on the FBS side outside of a game against a P5 team at bridgeforth.

The realities of our location and difficulty in attracting fans a 2+ hour driving consistently will not change for a regular sleight of most CUSA or Sun Belt opponents. I've seen some app fans post that some of their fans are showing they care less about most non-regional sun belt teams than the SoCon teams they had at least heard of before in their area. Fewer visiting fans are showing up to Boone due to the distance.

App is not immune to the national trend of declining attendance due to the economy, due to the prevelance of tv and streaming options. Being FBS, I would imagine they're having more readily available video options. That only increases a fans chance of NOT driving all the way to boone and choosing to stay home.

With that being said, it is very strange to see them announce their move to FBS and the Sun Belt and have had a consistent decline in average attendance I believe ever since. I didn't look at their numbers last year.

edit: yep. consistent decline. this year will beat the trend thanks to the Miami game.
2012 - 26,358
2013 - 24,894
2014 - 23,166
2015 - 21,459

(09-12-2016 01:44 PM)Potomac Wrote:  I think what is happening at App from an attendance perspective is a sign that the attendance grass may not be greener on the FBS side outside of a game against a P5 team at bridgeforth.

The realities of our location and difficulty in attracting fans a 2+ hour driving consistently will not change for a regular sleight of most CUSA or Sun Belt opponents. I've seen some app fans post that some of their fans are showing they care less about most non-regional sun belt teams than the SoCon teams they had at least heard of before in their area. Fewer visiting fans are showing up to Boone due to the distance.

App is not immune to the national trend of declining attendance due to the economy, due to the prevelance of tv and streaming options. Being FBS, I would imagine they're having more readily available video options. That only increases a fans chance of NOT driving all the way to boone and choosing to stay home.

With that being said, it is very strange to see them announce their move to FBS and the Sun Belt and have had a consistent decline in average attendance I believe ever since. I didn't look at their numbers last year.

edit: yep. consistent decline. this year will beat the trend thanks to the Miami game.
2012 - 26,358
2013 - 24,894
2014 - 23,166
2015 - 21,459

Wonder if they had any home games on a Wednesday during that stretch. I know they go to ULL on a Wednesday this year. Mid-week home games have to kill attendance averages.

Didn't they also have the new stadium effect kind of like JMU has experienced? I'm not sure which year it was but they did a pretty significant renovation which we've seen can spike attendance for a couple years.

(09-12-2016 02:01 PM)CarRamrod Wrote:  Wonder if they had any home games on a Wednesday during that stretch. I know they go to ULL on a Wednesday this year. Mid-week home games have to kill attendance averages.

Great question. Only their 2015 season so far has featured mid-week home games. It had two Thursday games on October 22nd and November 5th.

Just wondering. From the view of the more casual fans who go to games. Does it really make any difference if an opponent is FBS or FCS if the fans don't know who they are and don't have any connection to an opponent?

For example. Would JMU draw a bigger crowd playing W&M, Richmond or ODU(even if they were FCS), or Arkansas State/Ga. Southern?

(09-12-2016 03:38 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Just wondering. From the view of the more casual fans who go to games. Does it really make any difference if an opponent is FBS or FCS if the fans don't know who they are and don't have any connection to an opponent?

For example. Would JMU draw a bigger crowd playing W&M, Richmond or ODU(even if they were FCS), or Arkansas State/Ga. Southern?

(09-12-2016 01:07 PM)PGJMU Wrote:  Anybody see that App crushed ODU?

attendance was 23k in Boone. How is it that App State moved up to FBS and their attendance goes down from what the drew in FCS.

And yes, I know they will have a big crowd for Miami.

We were told a move to FBS would bring more interest from the casual fan. Can somebody explain whats happening at ASU then?

We have been told Bridgeforth is going to see dwindling attendance due to our low level opponents. We had 20k.

What else have we been told that isnt true???? I will up my donation 500% when we put on the big boy pants???

The casual fan is now watching App on TV vs. before not caring about what their FCS program was doing or playing unless it was in the national championship.

Exposure has increased. Athletic donations have increased. National media coverage has increased. They are hosting an ACC school. They are receiving top 25 votes. They won a bowl game and went 10-2 their first year eligible. Their first game this year was nationally televised on ESPN. Just tell me when to stop???

Every couple of months people bring up App's stadium attendance not increasing after their move to FBS as if to poke the bear (the majority of JMU fans that think JMU is crazy for not pursuing other opportunities). A handful of posters make it a point to highlight anytime someone complains about being FCS still so we'll shut up until someone tries to make it seem App State isn't any better being in FBS.

I would love to be in App State's situation right now. They will likely be 10-2 or 11-1 by the end of the season and have the potential to knock on the door of the top 25. I also love they way our season has started but the public perception to the "casual fan" is night and day when comparing us and App State right now.

(09-12-2016 03:39 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 03:38 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Just wondering. From the view of the more casual fans who go to games. Does it really make any difference if an opponent is FBS or FCS if the fans don't know who they are and don't have any connection to an opponent?

For example. Would JMU draw a bigger crowd playing W&M, Richmond or ODU(even if they were FCS), or Arkansas State/Ga. Southern?

LOL. Serious. I assume the fans on this board have been to both types of games. Since I only have basketball as a reference at UNCW, I don't know if football is different. An example for me is UNCW vs. W. Michigan has no draw compared to even playing Campbell.

(09-12-2016 04:00 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 03:39 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 03:38 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Just wondering. From the view of the more casual fans who go to games. Does it really make any difference if an opponent is FBS or FCS if the fans don't know who they are and don't have any connection to an opponent?

For example. Would JMU draw a bigger crowd playing W&M, Richmond or ODU(even if they were FCS), or Arkansas State/Ga. Southern?

LOL. Serious. I assume the fans on this board have been to both types of games. Since I only have basketball as a reference at UNCW, I don't know if football is different. An example for me is UNCW vs. W. Michigan has no draw compared to even playing Campbell.

I think you are right short-term. Right now, I would worry about attendance to see JMU play Louisiana-Lafayette more so than Richmond. However, over time, as JMU would hopefully be involved with higher profile matchups coupled with seeing us play the same teams for a few years, attendance would bottom out and rise. I really worry about attendance the first few years when we are only winning 3 or 4 games a year.

Kidd Brewer Stadium's official capacity is 23,150 and their average home attendance last year was 21,459 (my computation tracks to what someone posted above). They exceed capacity at times because, I'm sure, of the large grassy area and hillside around the playing field. They had less than 20,000 at their bowl game in Montgomery versus Ohio. That game was shown on ESPN, however. In fact, all of their games last year were covered by one of the ESPN networks (usually ESPN3 or ESPNU), except for the ODU game, which was on the ASN network (believe that's also available nationally, at least it used to be). Many of App State's road games a year ago, save for the Clemson and ODU games, had closer to 10,000 in attendance (see games at GA State, at LA-Monroe, at Idaho, at South AL). Both sides of this issue have valid points to make. I'd be curious to know what the TV ratings are for these lower level FBS games in any event. Seems like every weekend there's saturation coverage of college and NFL football...how many games can any one person watch and what would draw someone, other than those connected to the school, to some of these lower-level FBS games with only 10 or 20K in the stands?

I agree that I don't think we'd see a significant uptick in any of the G5 conferences, maybe it would help with some OOC games. It's hard to say. I want FBS football as much as anyone, but the App. State example is hard to argue with ... and they're good. Not like a team getting its butt kicked by any means.

I really hate that all these conferences are so spread out. There could be an incredible conference if the VA/NC/SC schools could get their act together. The ACC built itself from the NC schools in the triangle area.

If ECU, for example, didn't have its' head in the clouds, they'd be a great partner for a conference that included ODU, Charlotte, ASU, JMU, Coastal Carolina, Richmond, W&M. I'm sure your posters could put together a regional and attractive football conference.

(09-12-2016 03:51 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 01:07 PM)PGJMU Wrote:  

The casual fan is now watching App on TV vs. before not caring about what their FCS program was doing or playing unless it was in the national championship.

Exposure has increased. Athletic donations have increased. National media coverage has increased. They are hosting an ACC school. They are receiving top 25 votes. They won a bowl game and went 10-2 their first year eligible. Their first game this year was nationally televised on ESPN. Just tell me when to stop???

Every couple of months people bring up App's stadium attendance not increasing after their move to FBS as if to poke the bear (the majority of JMU fans that think JMU is crazy for not pursuing other opportunities). A handful of posters make it a point to highlight anytime someone complains about being FCS still so we'll shut up until someone tries to make it seem App State isn't any better being in FBS.

I would love to be in App State's situation right now. They will likely be 10-2 or 11-1 by the end of the season and have the potential to knock on the door of the top 25. I also love they way our season has started but the public perception to the "casual fan" is night and day when comparing us and App State right now.

You are a good poster Dolley. I enjoy your perspective, I would like to be FBS as well. I think most on here would like us to be FBS. App State is a great success, but for every App State, there is a UMass and a GA State where it has not been a great success. Those schools are going to go 2-9, will play in front of 9k, and have huge budget deficits. UAB disbanded their program and need a $30 mm hail mary to restart the program. Just tell me when to stop???

I find most of the ardent FBSers, have no basis in reality. They look at the success stories (Boise & App), and conveniently overlook Ga State, UNC Charlotte, Umass and many others. They gloss over shrinking TV revenue, ignore cost increases and assume it will all just work out through the magic of FBS. We are told our Admin has no vision and dont know what they are doing. We are told the alumni of App State have never been more energized and gallivanized around the program. They tell us people dont care about playing W&M, Richmond, Maine, but they will care about playing La Monroe.

If we are going to have an educated discussion around FBS, we can't only look at the facts we like. We must consider them all.

Guess what Dolley, when I see facts that dont match what we have been told, I dont ignore it and think FBS pixie dust will fix it all, I call Bullsh*t.

(09-12-2016 04:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  I really hate that all these conferences are so spread out. There could be an incredible conference if the VA/NC/SC schools could get their act together. The ACC built itself from the NC schools in the triangle area.

If ECU, for example, didn't have its' head in the clouds, they'd be a great partner for a conference that included ODU, Charlotte, ASU, JMU, Coastal Carolina, Richmond, W&M. I'm sure your posters could put together a regional and attractive football conference.

People have been throwing around theoretical conferences for years but realistically, getting all of those entities to come together just isn't going to happen. I mean, look at Dowdy-Ficklen stadium and then look at Richmond and W&M's high school fields. You can't really have those teams in the same conference.

(09-12-2016 04:30 PM)PGJMU Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 03:51 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 01:07 PM)PGJMU Wrote:  

The casual fan is now watching App on TV vs. before not caring about what their FCS program was doing or playing unless it was in the national championship.

Exposure has increased. Athletic donations have increased. National media coverage has increased. They are hosting an ACC school. They are receiving top 25 votes. They won a bowl game and went 10-2 their first year eligible. Their first game this year was nationally televised on ESPN. Just tell me when to stop???

Every couple of months people bring up App's stadium attendance not increasing after their move to FBS as if to poke the bear (the majority of JMU fans that think JMU is crazy for not pursuing other opportunities). A handful of posters make it a point to highlight anytime someone complains about being FCS still so we'll shut up until someone tries to make it seem App State isn't any better being in FBS.

I would love to be in App State's situation right now. They will likely be 10-2 or 11-1 by the end of the season and have the potential to knock on the door of the top 25. I also love they way our season has started but the public perception to the "casual fan" is night and day when comparing us and App State right now.

You are a good poster Dolley. I enjoy your perspective, I would like to be FBS as well. I think most on here would like us to be FBS. App State is a great success, but for every App State, there is a UMass and a GA State where it has not been a great success. Those schools are going to go 2-9, will play in front of 9k, and have huge budget deficits. UAB disbanded their program and need a $30 mm hail mary to restart the program. Just tell me when to stop???

I find most of the ardent FBSers, have no basis in reality. They look at the success stories (Boise & App), and conveniently overlook Ga State, UNC Charlotte, Umass and many others. They gloss over shrinking TV revenue, ignore cost increases and assume it will all just work out through the magic of FBS. We are told our Admin has no vision and dont know what they are doing. We are told the alumni of App State have never been more energized and gallivanized around the program. They tell us people dont care about playing W&M, Richmond, Maine, but they will care about playing La Monroe.

If we are going to have an educated discussion around FBS, we can't only look at the facts we like. We must consider them all.

Guess what Dolley, when I see facts that dont match what we have been told, I dont ignore it and think FBS pixie dust will fix it all, I call Bullsh*t.

welcome to the more rational side of the discussion that is based in reality. Don't let Dolley and others try to bring you down for presenting facts and not fairy tales.

Even ODU's season ticket waiting list is no more. They're having to make up creative ways to keep their sell out streak going, such as offering more seats to students.

This all seems very anecdotal... I will bite though - maybe this ONE game was lower because they didn't want to watch ODU?

This would be a good thread to get some App fans' perspective. Are ticket prices higher? Are there less visiting fans attending? Did they have any crappy weather? Did their fans gain more interest in moonshine and less in football?
It is interesting that their Thursday games were up and down. One drew 18,000 and the other drew the capacity of 24,000. Their Thanksgiving weekend game only drew 16,000.

I guess we will see what their max is this week vs Miami. How many SRO's will they allow in that small stadium with a listed capacity of 24,000? It is listed as a sellout so we will know their exact max come Saturday. It looks like the cheapest aftermarket tickets are $130 right now.

If their stadium capacity is 23K and 23K were there Saturday what is the issue? It's not like they put 23k into Lane Stadium or something.

PGJMU - To address your first point - What is your definition of casual fan? Does VT only have 65k fans because that is how many people go to their games? I didn't "see" App State crushed ODU. I had to seek out the information. But I didn't have to seek out the 20+ times they were mentioned during college game day this past weekend or the other 20+ times they were mentioned during the prime time broadcast of Tenn vs. VT. I didn't have to seek out the ESPN twitter account that let me know they will be playing on a national ESPN game right after a show that has 2 million viewers.

Additionally, you want to present "facts" but the truth is that your argument of a huge risk due to past failures isn't based on facts. 10 teams have gone FBS since JMU became "ready", or lets just say 2009. Western Kentucky, UTSA, Texas State, South Alabama, UMass, Ga State, ODU, Ga Southern, App State and UNCC. How many of those are better off, neutral or worse off than they were before FBS?

Sure, I'll say that UMass is definitely worse off. App State is better off. Western Kentucky is coming off a season where they were 3 points from going 13-1 and 7+ wins since 2011 (transitioned in 2009). I think even ODU is better off given increased exposure and donations and upcoming ACC home games but I'll go neutral given the financial constraints the new TV deal appears to be having with them. Ga State, South Alabama, UTSA and UNCC were never really FCS so I don't think you can include them in a pro/con discussion on movement to FBS. Lets go neutral on everyone else (Texas Sate, Ga Southern) because I really don't know their stories. So 2.5 successes and 1 failure of 6 teams that you can include in the conversation? Now, UMass took some huge risks that JMU wouldn't have to take or has already mitigated so I really feel like to have an "educated discussion" you could even strike them from the conversation. 2.5 successes and 0 failures from 5 case studies. I'll agree that a FBS move isn't a first class ticket to stardom but a move from FCS to FBS doesn't seem as risky/bad/destined to fail when I look at the facts.

Moving on with my definition of a "casual fan", I don't think it is out of line to state that some of App States success with the "casual fan" is because those said fans had an idea of App State's football program (thanks to Michigan). Nobody had heard of Ga State, UNCC, UTSA, South Alabama football programs before their move. I got jumped on for saying that 99% of the country had already forgotten about our win over VT last week on here. "Casual fans" have already heard of JMU schools which would help with the transition to FBS.