(09-10-2016 03:13 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:02 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:59 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Ok. I'm more than fine with putting Bailiff on Death Row.
But firing him, mid-season, is not a smart move. In my opinion.
If we had real talent and experience on the coaching staff..like UT, OU, etc...it would make sense. But we don't. What we would get is not a fresh start, but the Bataan Death March.

That's happening anyway. 2-10 at this point, with or without an interim coach.

You're absolutely right. But a HC firing at this point will result in total surrender. IMHO. Coaches AND players. It would really hamper getting a quality staff for next year. Not to mention the recruiting problem it would create.
Look. I'll admit that I'm not even close to understanding athletic administration. But it seems like at this point we've got a football program that's really teetering on the brink. Make the wrong decision and you'll have the same type of coach coming in that we have now. And talent, as well. A quick walk to DIII.
I would think that giving our AD the chance to start making some contacts during the next few weeks would be the thing to do. Behind the scenes. Or whatever.
2-10 either way you go. But patience might bring a better HC and help recruiting next season.

The longer we wait, the longer he has to dig the hole deeper. It is kind of like leaving the starting pitcher in one batter too long. Immediate action will also help give people (perhaps including potential recruits) confidence that JK and Rice are willing to act decisively and that Rice is dedicated to being (to borrow a Stanford adage) Winners on the field and winners off the field.

Also, from my observations of past seasons, if we are go into our last three games with one win, but then win two of the last three, many people will be saying - Look DB has improved. He just needed more time. We have to be patient. Next year he will be much better.

Act now. Today. This hour. This minute.

(09-10-2016 03:11 PM)raptorsareout Wrote:  I'm onboard. Bailiff and his coaching staff all need to be let go, but I know Karlgaard won't do it until the end of the season. Our recruiting is bad and our coaching is worse. I won't be at the Baylor game. Up until today, I was looking forward to it, but I'm not going to pay to see us lose by four touchdowns. All the energy is gone. Rice needs to open up it's wallet and hire some good coaches, and it needs to lower it's academic standards so we can sign some real talent. Big changes need to be made or it'll be the same sad song over and over again on South Main.

4 TD

If I don't get to see the PVAM band bc of the check march out, I'm not going to be happy...

(09-10-2016 02:42 PM)elf owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:25 PM)YOwl Ming Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:24 PM)elf owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:21 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Don't punt. Please.

I saw Rice go for it on fourth down from our own ten once. Name that game.

BYU at home - 1998?

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Yes, BYU. You got me on the year though. We almost scored on the play. A pass to the tight end was not what anybody expected from Hatfield.

Yes--it was an audible!

(09-10-2016 03:20 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:13 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:02 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:59 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Ok. I'm more than fine with putting Bailiff on Death Row.
But firing him, mid-season, is not a smart move. In my opinion.
If we had real talent and experience on the coaching staff..like UT, OU, etc...it would make sense. But we don't. What we would get is not a fresh start, but the Bataan Death March.

That's happening anyway. 2-10 at this point, with or without an interim coach.

You're absolutely right. But a HC firing at this point will result in total surrender. IMHO. Coaches AND players. It would really hamper getting a quality staff for next year. Not to mention the recruiting problem it would create.
Look. I'll admit that I'm not even close to understanding athletic administration. But it seems like at this point we've got a football program that's really teetering on the brink. Make the wrong decision and you'll have the same type of coach coming in that we have now. And talent, as well. A quick walk to DIII.
I would think that giving our AD the chance to start making some contacts during the next few weeks would be the thing to do. Behind the scenes. Or whatever.
2-10 either way you go. But patience might bring a better HC and help recruiting next season.

The longer we wait, the longer he has to dig the hole deeper. It is kind of like leaving the starting pitcher in one batter too long. Immediate action will also help give people (perhaps including potential recruits) confidence that JK and Rice are willing to act decisively and that Rice is dedicated to being (to borrow a Stanford adage) Winners on the field and winners off the field.

Also, from my observations of past seasons, if we are go into our last three games with one win, but then win two of the last three, many people will be saying - Look DB has improved. He just needed more time. We have to be patient. Next year he will be much better.

Act now. Today. This hour. This minute.

It's a difficult decision. In my profession it's called a judgement decision. It's probably called that in yours.
Presented with a near death unstable patient with a life threatening condition and a surgical solution. Do you proceed directly to the OR for a life saving amputation and hope he can withstand the operation? Or do you stabilize him with antibiotics and fluids and hope he improves enough to do the operation safely.
I've never fired a football coach. So I don't know the answer. I've got a gut feeling. But no experience.
That's why we've got Dr K, I guess.

(09-10-2016 03:13 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:02 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:59 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Ok. I'm more than fine with putting Bailiff on Death Row.
But firing him, mid-season, is not a smart move. In my opinion.
If we had real talent and experience on the coaching staff..like UT, OU, etc...it would make sense. But we don't. What we would get is not a fresh start, but the Bataan Death March.

That's happening anyway. 2-10 at this point, with or without an interim coach.

You're absolutely right. But a HC firing at this point will result in total surrender. IMHO. Coaches AND players. It would really hamper getting a quality staff for next year. Not to mention the recruiting problem it would create.
Look. I'll admit that I'm not even close to understanding athletic administration. But it seems like at this point we've got a football program that's really teetering on the brink. Make the wrong decision and you'll have the same type of coach coming in that we have now. And talent, as well. A quick walk to DIII.
I would think that giving our AD the chance to start making some contacts during the next few weeks would be the thing to do. Behind the scenes. Or whatever.
2-10 either way you go. But patience might bring a better HC and help recruiting next season.

If Karlgaard hasn't already been making contacts, then fire him. No way he isn't already looking.

(09-10-2016 01:57 PM)Barrett Wrote:  Army blocks our punt.

I think that play was the final straw for DB. Some nice moments, but overall a mess. Almost wish the 2012 season hadn't got turned around.

(09-10-2016 03:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:13 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:02 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:59 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Ok. I'm more than fine with putting Bailiff on Death Row.
But firing him, mid-season, is not a smart move. In my opinion.
If we had real talent and experience on the coaching staff..like UT, OU, etc...it would make sense. But we don't. What we would get is not a fresh start, but the Bataan Death March.

That's happening anyway. 2-10 at this point, with or without an interim coach.

You're absolutely right. But a HC firing at this point will result in total surrender. IMHO. Coaches AND players. It would really hamper getting a quality staff for next year. Not to mention the recruiting problem it would create.
Look. I'll admit that I'm not even close to understanding athletic administration. But it seems like at this point we've got a football program that's really teetering on the brink. Make the wrong decision and you'll have the same type of coach coming in that we have now. And talent, as well. A quick walk to DIII.
I would think that giving our AD the chance to start making some contacts during the next few weeks would be the thing to do. Behind the scenes. Or whatever.
2-10 either way you go. But patience might bring a better HC and help recruiting next season.

If Karlgaard hasn't already been making contacts, then fire him. No way he isn't already looking.

I'd think JK would not fire DB mid-season unless he'd already lined up a stellar successor.


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(09-10-2016 02:15 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:10 PM)Bay Area Owl Wrote:  Bailiff should be fired immediately. Karlgaard should have removed him last year at a minimum. Keeping him on was like leaving cancer untreated.

I suppose it's not fair to make the interim coach face Baylor in their first game, but Bailiff needs to be cut out now...

We might beat PV A&M and Charlotte this year....

Dr K deserves equal blame

the whole bloody mess is 100% on Leebron

(09-10-2016 03:13 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:02 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:59 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Ok. I'm more than fine with putting Bailiff on Death Row.
But firing him, mid-season, is not a smart move. In my opinion.
If we had real talent and experience on the coaching staff..like UT, OU, etc...it would make sense. But we don't. What we would get is not a fresh start, but the Bataan Death March.

That's happening anyway. 2-10 at this point, with or without an interim coach.

You're absolutely right. But a HC firing at this point will result in total surrender. IMHO. Coaches AND players. It would really hamper getting a quality staff for next year. Not to mention the recruiting problem it would create.
Look. I'll admit that I'm not even close to understanding athletic administration. But it seems like at this point we've got a football program that's really teetering on the brink. Make the wrong decision and you'll have the same type of coach coming in that we have now. And talent, as well. A quick walk to DIII.
I would think that giving our AD the chance to start making some contacts during the next few weeks would be the thing to do. Behind the scenes. Or whatever.
2-10 either way you go. But patience might bring a better HC and help recruiting next season.

Referencing your concern about getting a good hire, JK has done an exceptional job of finding outstanding coaches. If RG were still the AD, I would be concerned. But I have confidence in JK's picks.

Thus far I have deferred to his judgment on the timing of the decision (I do not doubt that DB's departure is certain if we want to retain any self respect). I assume from things Walt has posted that JK might have wanted to make the move last year but was not allowed to do so. I sure hope he gets permission to do it soon.

Don, as always, you have valid points about the timing. It may be a no win decision. But I feel in my gut that the sooner we make the switch the sooner the repair can begin. Nothing will change as long as he remains.

Scratching my head how/why everyone appears to be so shocked by this outcome. Some of us have been saying since last year's Army game that this year would be a loss. I also continue to marvel how some genuinely believed there would be significant improvement in this year's team. Given how awful we played last year, combined with a inexperienced QB and VERY questionable OL and defense-- not to mention a conference schedule with all our toughest games on the road (unlike last year), I couldn't believe how many were projecting 7+ wins this season. As I said from the get-go, I saw 6-6 as the absolute best case scenario, and that would have required running the table against all teams ranked outside the Top 100.

(09-10-2016 03:35 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:13 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:02 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:59 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Ok. I'm more than fine with putting Bailiff on Death Row.
But firing him, mid-season, is not a smart move. In my opinion.
If we had real talent and experience on the coaching staff..like UT, OU, etc...it would make sense. But we don't. What we would get is not a fresh start, but the Bataan Death March.

That's happening anyway. 2-10 at this point, with or without an interim coach.

You're absolutely right. But a HC firing at this point will result in total surrender. IMHO. Coaches AND players. It would really hamper getting a quality staff for next year. Not to mention the recruiting problem it would create.
Look. I'll admit that I'm not even close to understanding athletic administration. But it seems like at this point we've got a football program that's really teetering on the brink. Make the wrong decision and you'll have the same type of coach coming in that we have now. And talent, as well. A quick walk to DIII.
I would think that giving our AD the chance to start making some contacts during the next few weeks would be the thing to do. Behind the scenes. Or whatever.
2-10 either way you go. But patience might bring a better HC and help recruiting next season.

If Karlgaard hasn't already been making contacts, then fire him. No way he isn't already looking.

I'd think JK would not fire DB mid-season unless he'd already lined up a stellar successor.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using CSNbbs mobile app

As Frizzy noted, JK must be looking. I have never met JK, but from what I see of his actions, he is smart, energetic, and pro-active. We need a football coach similar to JK.

(09-10-2016 02:47 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 02:46 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Central Michigan scores on an untimed down (on offensive penalty?) to beat Oklahoma St.
Long pass and lateral. Under review.

Nichols St barely loses to Georgia.

who is their coach?

(09-10-2016 03:37 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Scratching my head how/why everyone appears to be so shocked by this outcome. Some of us have been saying since last year's Army game that this year would be a loss. I also continue to marvel how some genuinely believed there would be significant improvement in this year's team. Given how awful we played last year, combined with a inexperienced QB and VERY questionable OL and defense-- not to mention a conference schedule with all our toughest games on the road (unlike last year), I couldn't believe how many were projecting 7+ wins this season.

Walt, I think some people were expecting us to be better with more experience in the same manner that you expect the baseball team to be better with more experience...

(09-10-2016 03:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:37 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Scratching my head how/why everyone appears to be so shocked by this outcome. Some of us have been saying since last year's Army game that this year would be a loss. I also continue to marvel how some genuinely believed there would be significant improvement in this year's team. Given how awful we played last year, combined with a inexperienced QB and VERY questionable OL and defense-- not to mention a conference schedule with all our toughest games on the road (unlike last year), I couldn't believe how many were projecting 7+ wins this season.

Walt, I think some people were expecting us to be better with more experience in the same manner that you expect the baseball team to be better with more experience...

+1

(09-10-2016 03:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 03:37 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Scratching my head how/why everyone appears to be so shocked by this outcome. Some of us have been saying since last year's Army game that this year would be a loss. I also continue to marvel how some genuinely believed there would be significant improvement in this year's team. Given how awful we played last year, combined with a inexperienced QB and VERY questionable OL and defense-- not to mention a conference schedule with all our toughest games on the road (unlike last year), I couldn't believe how many were projecting 7+ wins this season.

Walt, I think some people were expecting us to be better with more experience in the same manner that you expect the baseball team to be better with more experience...

Except the baseball team and players come in each year with a higher baseline from the previous season than what last year's football team did.

It should be beyond obvious that Bailiff is gone next year, but I can see the argument for coaxing out something approaching a .500 season just for appearances. The team's a mess, but this is an easy schedule.

If I was AD, I would take Bailiff aside and tell him he's gone immediately if Rice doesn't defeat UNT. It would light an immediate fire under his butt, and he might respond. If Rice defeats UNT and then likely gets routed by USM, I take Bailiff aside again and tell him he's gone if Rice doesn't defeat UTSA. With wins against UNT, UTSA, and then a pathetic Prairie View, Rice would stand at 3-4. The team would still be terrible, but Rice could putter on to 5-7 or even 6-6 with this weak schedule. The sad fact is that a few fans would argue that 6-6 ain't half bad... I certainly hope Karlgaard is beyond this illusion at this point.

Rice could still lose to UNT and/or UTSA, and in this scenario, Bailiff is gone mid-season. Just as well, because the only virtue of keeping Bailiff around is to win the easy ones, and if he can't even win the easy ones... gone.

(09-10-2016 02:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  RU might need a week.

That's what I was thnking, although there is going to have to be some major unlearning to do here. My scenario: JK tells DB to accept a new OC. If DB says no, relieve him. It's pretty clear that this season is a throw-away in any case. Things need to be done to increase fan and player interest before the rest of the season slips away.

FWIW, I thought the D-line did a pretty good job this week. I see a nice future there if we can stay healthy.

SMU up 6-3 at Baylor midway through 2Q and inside the Baylor 15.

(09-10-2016 03:37 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Scratching my head how/why everyone appears to be so shocked by this outcome. Some of us have been saying since last year's Army game that this year would be a loss. I also continue to marvel how some genuinely believed there would be significant improvement in this year's team. Given how awful we played last year, combined with a inexperienced QB and VERY questionable OL and defense-- not to mention a conference schedule with all our toughest games on the road (unlike last year), I couldn't believe how many were projecting 7+ wins this season. As I said from the get-go, I saw 6-6 as the absolute best case scenario, and that would have required running the table against all teams ranked outside the Top 100.

Dammit Walt I wish I was as smart as you.