(09-09-2016 03:34 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 03:21 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  To the comments, I don't think there's anything inherent in being of Mexican descent that makes someone 'better' OR worse than someone of Anglo or African or Asian descent... Different perhaps.

That's not the problem

Even if they appreciate being in America, working hard and looking after each other, they either live on one side or the other of the law. This creates opportunities for exploitation by ALL SORTS of elements, even if they themselves are perfect people. Also, their contributions to society MAY be less than those of others, even some who aren't as 'good' as they are, depending on their legal status and their intentions.

I've got no problem with the many people I know from Mexico and other places here to work hard and do the right thing and send money home to their families... but we need to know who they are, how many there are, what their needs are, how to protect them and how much money is leaving our economy. They need to be here legally. I don't care if they're Jesus... HE followed the laws of men.

As with any society, the people causing the trouble are ALWAYS a small percentage of the whole... but I can't tell the difference between someone running from police because they're here illegally and someone running because they're a rapist or murderer. If they were here legally, they wouldn't need to hide UNLESS they were a rapist or murderer



To the OP, I think it's a GREAT idea.

Most of Northern Mexico would be more than happy to see US forces come in and eliminate the criminal elements near the border, ceding far more territory to the US than the original plan. In any other area that might for some reason resist, any resistance would be futile. Take the whole darn thing... outside of criminals, I suspect with almost no resistance... assuming we allowed them to have 5+ states and 'all the trimmings' that go with that. I mean seriously, like Mexico is going to 'take back' US territory (unless we simply want them to)?

I agree with your comment Ham. We need to face reality. These people are here to stay. All the bluster and foot stomping from Trump is not going to change that. At some point we as a nation are going to have to sit down and come to grips with this. It may simply be requiring illegals register and get work visas. I don't know. I do know that their labor is vitally important to large segments of the economy. The second you start deportations en masse? You are going to have a mess on your hands and you will see a quiet underground protest from business and agricultural interests that depend upon this labor. I have no issue deporting those that are "criminals" or pose a threat to our security. This issue is not as cut and dried as many think it is. It is going take some thoughtful people sitting down and creating a usable framework.

lol

That's a lot to ask from our mentally challenged government.

(09-09-2016 03:58 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 03:34 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 03:21 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  To the comments, I don't think there's anything inherent in being of Mexican descent that makes someone 'better' OR worse than someone of Anglo or African or Asian descent... Different perhaps.

That's not the problem

Even if they appreciate being in America, working hard and looking after each other, they either live on one side or the other of the law. This creates opportunities for exploitation by ALL SORTS of elements, even if they themselves are perfect people. Also, their contributions to society MAY be less than those of others, even some who aren't as 'good' as they are, depending on their legal status and their intentions.

I've got no problem with the many people I know from Mexico and other places here to work hard and do the right thing and send money home to their families... but we need to know who they are, how many there are, what their needs are, how to protect them and how much money is leaving our economy. They need to be here legally. I don't care if they're Jesus... HE followed the laws of men.

As with any society, the people causing the trouble are ALWAYS a small percentage of the whole... but I can't tell the difference between someone running from police because they're here illegally and someone running because they're a rapist or murderer. If they were here legally, they wouldn't need to hide UNLESS they were a rapist or murderer



To the OP, I think it's a GREAT idea.

Most of Northern Mexico would be more than happy to see US forces come in and eliminate the criminal elements near the border, ceding far more territory to the US than the original plan. In any other area that might for some reason resist, any resistance would be futile. Take the whole darn thing... outside of criminals, I suspect with almost no resistance... assuming we allowed them to have 5+ states and 'all the trimmings' that go with that. I mean seriously, like Mexico is going to 'take back' US territory (unless we simply want them to)?

I agree with your comment Ham. We need to face reality. These people are here to stay. All the bluster and foot stomping from Trump is not going to change that. At some point we as a nation are going to have to sit down and come to grips with this. It may simply be requiring illegals register and get work visas. I don't know. I do know that their labor is vitally important to large segments of the economy. The second you start deportations en masse? You are going to have a mess on your hands and you will see a quiet underground protest from business and agricultural interests that depend upon this labor. I have no issue deporting those that are "criminals" or pose a threat to our security. This issue is not as cut and dried as many think it is. It is going take some thoughtful people sitting down and creating a usable framework.

lol

That's a lot to ask from our mentally challenged government.

Yep...Quite a challenge. Especially if we elect someone that is intent on walls and deportation strategies. We essentially just kick it own down the road at that point. I don't believe for a second either is going to happen.

What's the point of the effort of registration if there isn't a way to stop thousands more?

Talk about kicking the can down the road.... All you guys are doing is emptying the bucket under the leaking faucet. At some point, you have to fix the leak. Otherwise, you're solving nothing.

All of this blustering about 'cries from industry' are as bad (if not worse) than the 'they're all criminals' crowd, trying to 'scare' people into inaction.

cries from industry would be over a reduction in the labor force, which is GOOD for wages AND innovation... problems 'the left' says can't be solved... yet right here is the solution. You can't mow lawns or wash dishes or bus tables (typical 'illegal alien' jobs that Americans don't want to do) which means that the risk of offshoring is minimal, so you either have to pay $15/hr to ENTICE Americans to do it, or you have to create a 'robot' to do that job.

My primary goal in annexing Mexico would be to drastically reduce our southern border and thus vastly improve our ability to enforce it. You can't have one without the other.

(09-09-2016 07:21 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  What's the point of the effort of registration if there isn't a way to stop thousands more?

Talk about kicking the can down the road.... All you guys are doing is emptying the bucket under the leaking faucet. At some point, you have to fix the leak. Otherwise, you're solving nothing.

All of this blustering about 'cries from industry' are as bad (if not worse) than the 'they're all criminals' crowd, trying to 'scare' people into inaction.

cries from industry would be over a reduction in the labor force, which is GOOD for wages AND innovation... problems 'the left' says can't be solved... yet right here is the solution. You can't mow lawns or wash dishes or bus tables (typical 'illegal alien' jobs that Americans don't want to do) which means that the risk of offshoring is minimal, so you either have to pay $15/hr to ENTICE Americans to do it, or you have to create a 'robot' to do that job.

My primary goal in annexing Mexico would be to drastically reduce our southern border and thus vastly improve our ability to enforce it. You can't have one without the other.

I think you really have to concentrate on drying up ALL jobs that illegals are now working. No visa, No green card...No job. Make the penalty so severe for hiring anyone without them that no one would dare do it. Make examples of businesses and people caught doing it. Set up a system to screen applicants and allow in workers as the market demands. Im open to any other ideas that would stem the flow of illegals also...other than making America's Southern border akin to the former East Germany.

(09-09-2016 08:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think you really have to concentrate on drying up ALL jobs that illegals are now working. No visa, No green card...No job. Make the penalty so severe for hiring anyone without them that no one would dare do it. Make examples of businesses and people caught doing it. Set up a system to screen applicants and allow in workers as the market demands. Im open to any other ideas that would stem the flow of illegals also...other than making America's Southern border akin to the former East Germany.

Except the majority of the jobs that these people get are from moms and pops... not big corporations. You can't possibly police all of those small businesses.

I don't disagree with you in principle... I just don't see how you can possibly enforce it. This is one of those things that to me sounds like we're addressing the problem, but really doesn't address the problem.

The reality is that if we tried to enforce it, we'd have to be stopping every lawn service and moving truck in town, and every cleaning service etc... and the same people supporting you in this effort would be crying 'profiling'...

(09-09-2016 10:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 08:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think you really have to concentrate on drying up ALL jobs that illegals are now working. No visa, No green card...No job. Make the penalty so severe for hiring anyone without them that no one would dare do it. Make examples of businesses and people caught doing it. Set up a system to screen applicants and allow in workers as the market demands. Im open to any other ideas that would stem the flow of illegals also...other than making America's Southern border akin to the former East Germany.

Except the majority of the jobs that these people get are from moms and pops... not big corporations. You can't possibly police all of those small businesses.

I don't disagree with you in principle... I just don't see how you can possibly enforce it. This is one of those things that to me sounds like we're addressing the problem, but really doesn't address the problem.

The reality is that if we tried to enforce it, we'd have to be stopping every lawn service and moving truck in town, and every cleaning service etc... and the same people supporting you in this effort would be crying 'profiling'...

(09-10-2016 04:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 08:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think you really have to concentrate on drying up ALL jobs that illegals are now working. No visa, No green card...No job. Make the penalty so severe for hiring anyone without them that no one would dare do it. Make examples of businesses and people caught doing it. Set up a system to screen applicants and allow in workers as the market demands. Im open to any other ideas that would stem the flow of illegals also...other than making America's Southern border akin to the former East Germany.

Except the majority of the jobs that these people get are from moms and pops... not big corporations. You can't possibly police all of those small businesses.

I don't disagree with you in principle... I just don't see how you can possibly enforce it. This is one of those things that to me sounds like we're addressing the problem, but really doesn't address the problem.

The reality is that if we tried to enforce it, we'd have to be stopping every lawn service and moving truck in town, and every cleaning service etc... and the same people supporting you in this effort would be crying 'profiling'...

Cutting off any and all government assistance to non citizens would also help. Stop incentivizing people to come here and stay. Incentivize them to come...work..and go back home.

(09-10-2016 04:57 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 04:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 08:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think you really have to concentrate on drying up ALL jobs that illegals are now working. No visa, No green card...No job. Make the penalty so severe for hiring anyone without them that no one would dare do it. Make examples of businesses and people caught doing it. Set up a system to screen applicants and allow in workers as the market demands. Im open to any other ideas that would stem the flow of illegals also...other than making America's Southern border akin to the former East Germany.

Except the majority of the jobs that these people get are from moms and pops... not big corporations. You can't possibly police all of those small businesses.

I don't disagree with you in principle... I just don't see how you can possibly enforce it. This is one of those things that to me sounds like we're addressing the problem, but really doesn't address the problem.

The reality is that if we tried to enforce it, we'd have to be stopping every lawn service and moving truck in town, and every cleaning service etc... and the same people supporting you in this effort would be crying 'profiling'...

Cutting off any and all government assistance to non citizens would also help. Stop incentivizing people to come here and stay. Incentivize them to come...work..and go back home.

I'm for that as well, but again, that flies in the face of the 'great society' people who won't want to see people dying for lack of healthcare or shelter or food or whatever.

This should tell everyone something... Son has a teacher friend with a serious long term illness... think 'cancer'... Don't remember the reasons why, but she was ineligible for the ACA until 9/1... and on 8/6 was having some serious pains.... not deadly... just MAJOR discomfort/pain. She needed help and without insurance it was too expensive.... she wouldn't have been able to afford her insurance if she had the OOP for this. My son called me, a hospital administrator, and asked for help/ideas. My BEST advice to her was for her to show up at an ED that she has never been to before without ID and to give a fake name and 'not know' her SSN. Say she lives with a friend... I told her to 'act' like she wasn't here legally... tell them what she knew of her condition, but not 'how' she knew (no specific dates or locations or physicians) and they would treat her symptoms/get her to 9/1. She probably got 2500 worth of services... that the hospital got paid $250 for, and she paid nothing. We agreed that she should pay something to the hospital charity foundation when she could.

It is extremely difficult to be a 'great society' without helping those who need it... but it is equally difficult to help people 'for free'... which means that citizens, whom we can track and follow and report to the credit bureaus and even the police if necessary (and THEY can find them) pay the price, while those here 'stealing' the services can simply walk away. You HAVE to limit the freebies somehow, otherwise that is all you will get.

So, Mexico is declaring war?

The question now is will the US surrender happen quickly enough for Obama to lead it?

(09-10-2016 10:59 AM)Smaug Wrote:  So, Mexico is declaring war?

The question now is will the US surrender happen quickly enough for Obama to lead it?

He will first draw a red line.

(09-10-2016 01:17 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(09-10-2016 10:59 AM)Smaug Wrote:  So, Mexico is declaring war?

The question now is will the US surrender happen quickly enough for Obama to lead it?

He will first draw a red line.

and then order billions of funds seized during drug smuggling operations 'released'