RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:42 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote: If it's so great then why are so many trying to leave?
Read post #13
That doesn't answer the question, primarily because you can't separate the economics from the equation.
If you cannot separate the culture and the people form their economic situation this would explain your distaste for them.
Economics plays a huge part in defining culture.
I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:42 AM)Fitbud Wrote: Read post #13
That doesn't answer the question, primarily because you can't separate the economics from the equation.
If you cannot separate the culture and the people form their economic situation this would explain your distaste for them.
Economics plays a huge part in defining culture.
I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote: That doesn't answer the question, primarily because you can't separate the economics from the equation.
If you cannot separate the culture and the people form their economic situation this would explain your distaste for them.
Economics plays a huge part in defining culture.
I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote: That doesn't answer the question, primarily because you can't separate the economics from the equation.
If you cannot separate the culture and the people form their economic situation this would explain your distaste for them.
Economics plays a huge part in defining culture.
I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
Mexican culture is their unique food, music, customs and rich history dating back thousands of years.
Why am I not surprised that you would think of Mexican culture as nothing more than breaking US law and corruption.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote: If you cannot separate the culture and the people form their economic situation this would explain your distaste for them.
Economics plays a huge part in defining culture.
I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
Mexican culture is their unique food, music, customs and rich history dating back thousands of years.
Why am I not surprised that you would think of Mexican culture as nothing more than breaking US law and corruption.
Perhaps because of the fact that the vast majority of Mexicans I have come into contact with are criminals.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote: Economics plays a huge part in defining culture.
I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
Mexican culture is their unique food, music, customs and rich history dating back thousands of years.
Why am I not surprised that you would think of Mexican culture as nothing more than breaking US law and corruption.
Perhaps because of the fact that the vast majority of Mexicans I have come into contact with are criminals.
It's a shame that in this day and age that you would be so ignorant.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote: I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
Mexican culture is their unique food, music, customs and rich history dating back thousands of years.
Why am I not surprised that you would think of Mexican culture as nothing more than breaking US law and corruption.
Perhaps because of the fact that the vast majority of Mexicans I have come into contact with are criminals.
It's a shame that in this day and age that you would be so ignorant.
What if he works in a prison? lol
Anyway, coming to the US is, IMO, ingrained in Mexican culture. Just watch pretty much any Mexican movie and an overwhelming number of them deal with either crossing the border or drug cartels. I've always thought that the movies a nation produces directly reflects that nation's culture, etc.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:49 PM)VA49er Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote: What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
Mexican culture is their unique food, music, customs and rich history dating back thousands of years.
Why am I not surprised that you would think of Mexican culture as nothing more than breaking US law and corruption.
Perhaps because of the fact that the vast majority of Mexicans I have come into contact with are criminals.
It's a shame that in this day and age that you would be so ignorant.
What if he works in a prison? lol
Anyway, coming to the US is, IMO, ingrained in Mexican culture. Just watch pretty much any Mexican movie and an overwhelming number of them deal with either crossing the border or drug cartels. I've always thought that the movies a nation produces directly reflects that nation's culture, etc.
And a great number of U.S. movies deal with murders and monsters. Are we to assume then that American culture is nothing but murderers and boogiemen?
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote: I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?
Mexican culture is their unique food, music, customs and rich history dating back thousands of years.
Why am I not surprised that you would think of Mexican culture as nothing more than breaking US law and corruption.
Perhaps because of the fact that the vast majority of Mexicans I have come into contact with are criminals.
It's a shame that in this day and age that you would be so ignorant.
How so? The vast majority of Mexicans I have come in contact with did not enter this country legally thus are criminals. They aren't paying taxes on the income they are making in this country which is also illegal, thus they are criminals.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
Without getting into the illegal alien issue..but...Just an observation of values and lifestyles of these folks.....
I live in a very agriculturally heavy part of NC. There are a ton of Hispanics here. I counted 4 Taco trucks and 5 Taquerias in my town of 6000. There are 3 Catholic churches that hold Hispanic mass. My wife is the director of the county health department and serves this population daily. I have hired dozens of Hispanics with green cards over the last 20 years. It is my and my wife's experience that these folks are just people trying to provide for their families. In general, they are quiet, respectful,humble and polite. The children are well taken care of and they behave in public. It is a very male dominated society and the women have almost zero power in the family unit other than taking care of the kids. I can say without a doubt...Id rather have these people around than a TON of the useless white and black trash I have to deal with daily. At least they appreciate being in America, work hard and look after each other. Just my 2 cents.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 02:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: Without getting into the illegal alien issue..but...Just an observation of values and lifestyles of these folks.....
I live in a very agriculturally heavy part of NC. There are a ton of Hispanics here. I counted 4 Taco trucks and 5 Taquerias in my town of 6000. There are 3 Catholic churches that hold Hispanic mass. My wife is the director of the county health department and serves this population daily. I have hired dozens of Hispanics with green cards over the last 20 years. It is my and my wife's experience that these folks are just people trying to provide for their families. In general, they are quiet, respectful,humble and polite. The children are well taken care of and they behave in public. It is a very male dominated society and the women have almost zero power in the family unit other than taking care of the kids. I can say without a doubt...Id rather have these people around than a TON of the useless white and black trash I have to deal with daily. At least they appreciate being in America, work hard and look after each other. Just my 2 cents.
Thank you. Finally a sensible post concerning the Hispanic mindset. In El Paso we have a population of around 800k and around 80% the population is Hispanic. As a large city we're proud of being no.1 as the safest city in the nation. Our family "VALUES" have a LOT to do with this. We work hard and we take care of our families. If the nation tried this we wouldn't have the problems we have. Our greatest virtue is being kind to everyone. Ha, ha, except when we're driving.
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
To the comments, I don't think there's anything inherent in being of Mexican descent that makes someone 'better' OR worse than someone of Anglo or African or Asian descent... Different perhaps.
That's not the problem
Even if they appreciate being in America, working hard and looking after each other, they either live on one side or the other of the law. This creates opportunities for exploitation by ALL SORTS of elements, even if they themselves are perfect people. Also, their contributions to society MAY be less than those of others, even some who aren't as 'good' as they are, depending on their legal status and their intentions.
I've got no problem with the many people I know from Mexico and other places here to work hard and do the right thing and send money home to their families... but we need to know who they are, how many there are, what their needs are, how to protect them and how much money is leaving our economy. They need to be here legally. I don't care if they're Jesus... HE followed the laws of men.
As with any society, the people causing the trouble are ALWAYS a small percentage of the whole... but I can't tell the difference between someone running from police because they're here illegally and someone running because they're a rapist or murderer. If they were here legally, they wouldn't need to hide UNLESS they were a rapist or murderer
To the OP, I think it's a GREAT idea.
Most of Northern Mexico would be more than happy to see US forces come in and eliminate the criminal elements near the border, ceding far more territory to the US than the original plan. In any other area that might for some reason resist, any resistance would be futile. Take the whole darn thing... outside of criminals, I suspect with almost no resistance... assuming we allowed them to have 5+ states and 'all the trimmings' that go with that. I mean seriously, like Mexico is going to 'take back' US territory (unless we simply want them to)?
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 03:21 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: To the comments, I don't think there's anything inherent in being of Mexican descent that makes someone 'better' OR worse than someone of Anglo or African or Asian descent... Different perhaps.
That's not the problem
Even if they appreciate being in America, working hard and looking after each other, they either live on one side or the other of the law. This creates opportunities for exploitation by ALL SORTS of elements, even if they themselves are perfect people. Also, their contributions to society MAY be less than those of others, even some who aren't as 'good' as they are, depending on their legal status and their intentions.
I've got no problem with the many people I know from Mexico and other places here to work hard and do the right thing and send money home to their families... but we need to know who they are, how many there are, what their needs are, how to protect them and how much money is leaving our economy. They need to be here legally. I don't care if they're Jesus... HE followed the laws of men.
As with any society, the people causing the trouble are ALWAYS a small percentage of the whole... but I can't tell the difference between someone running from police because they're here illegally and someone running because they're a rapist or murderer. If they were here legally, they wouldn't need to hide UNLESS they were a rapist or murderer
To the OP, I think it's a GREAT idea.
Most of Northern Mexico would be more than happy to see US forces come in and eliminate the criminal elements near the border, ceding far more territory to the US than the original plan. In any other area that might for some reason resist, any resistance would be futile. Take the whole darn thing... outside of criminals, I suspect with almost no resistance... assuming we allowed them to have 5+ states and 'all the trimmings' that go with that. I mean seriously, like Mexico is going to 'take back' US territory (unless we simply want them to)?
I agree with your comment Ham. We need to face reality. These people are here to stay. All the bluster and foot stomping from Trump is not going to change that. At some point we as a nation are going to have to sit down and come to grips with this. It may simply be requiring illegals register and get work visas. I don't know. I do know that their labor is vitally important to large segments of the economy. The second you start deportations en masse? You are going to have a mess on your hands and you will see a quiet underground protest from business and agricultural interests that depend upon this labor. I have no issue deporting those that are "criminals" or pose a threat to our security. This issue is not as cut and dried as many think it is. It is going take some thoughtful people sitting down and creating a usable framework.
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2016 03:35 PM by Fo Shizzle.)
RE: Mexican senator proposes cancellation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
(09-09-2016 12:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Kaplony Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:52 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-09-2016 11:50 AM)Kaplony Wrote: That doesn't answer the question, primarily because you can't separate the economics from the equation.
If you cannot separate the culture and the people form their economic situation this would explain your distaste for them.
Economics plays a huge part in defining culture.
I agree only to the extent that it hinders a people's ability to express their culture. The fact that Mexican culture is so prevalent despite their economic situation only speaks to how wonderful it truly is.
What exactly is "Mexican culture"? I mean besides breaking US laws on entering this country, corruption at every level of government, and widespread narcoterrorism?