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Bailiff Coaching Tree
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Pan95 Offline
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Post: #1
Bailiff Coaching Tree
Saw this in the Weekly Game Notes on page 20


BAILIFF COACHING TREE
In his 12 years of head coaching experience,
David Bailiff has provided opportunity for a
number of young coaches to begin or advance
their careers.
Tom Herman, Head Coach, Houston
(OC, Texas State, 2005-06, Rice 2007-08)
David Beaty, Head Coach, Kansas
(OC, Rice 2010)
Craig Naivar, Assoc. HC Co-DC, Houston
(DC, Texas State, 2004-06, Co-DC Rice 2007-09)
John Reagan, OC/OL Penn
(OC, Rice 2011-13)
D.J. Eliot, DC Kentucky
(DL, Rice 2007-09)
Drew Mehringer, OC Rutgers
(SA, Rice 2008-09)
Travis Bush, OC Houston
(GA, Texas State, 2004-06)
Jason Washington, ST Coord, Houston
(CB, Rice 2007-09)
Brandon Lacy, Assistant HC, SE Louisiana
(GA, Rice 2007)
Derek Warhime, OL, Houston
(GA, Rice 2007)
Michael Slater, DL, Kansas
(GA, Rice 2008-09, DL 2012-15)
Adrian Mayes, DL, Texas State
(GA, Rice 2011-13)
Joe Johnson, OL, Penn
(GA, Rice 2013-15)

Also of a humorous note...well at least to me. Bailiff is 1-3 versus...*drumroll*...Nicholl's State going back to his days at Texas State.
2004 Nicholls State (SLC) W 35-12
2005 at Nicholls State (SLC) LOT 32-29 (the year his team played in the FCS championship)
2006 Nicholls State (SLC) L 21-19
2007 Nicholls State L 16-14
We never had a chance against the Colonels in 2007. If this is David's last year at the helm, we need to ensure that the next coach (or couch) has a winning record against Nicholls State.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2016 12:40 PM by Pan95.)
09-08-2016 10:50 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
It seems as if his assistant coaching decisions were much better earlier in his time at Rice. I don't see a lot of recent assistants on that list.
09-08-2016 12:20 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 12:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It seems as if his assistant coaching decisions were much better earlier in his time at Rice. I don't see a lot of recent assistants on that list.

He's had a lot of stability lately ... something a lot of us view as a bad thing for assistant coaches at a G5 school. If they were really good, a P5 school could easily outbid Rice for their services.
09-08-2016 12:52 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 12:52 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It seems as if his assistant coaching decisions were much better earlier in his time at Rice. I don't see a lot of recent assistants on that list.

He's had a lot of stability lately ... something a lot of us view as a bad thing for assistant coaches at a G5 school. If they were really good, a P5 school could easily outbid Rice for their services.

Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.
09-08-2016 12:59 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:52 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It seems as if his assistant coaching decisions were much better earlier in his time at Rice. I don't see a lot of recent assistants on that list.

He's had a lot of stability lately ... something a lot of us view as a bad thing for assistant coaches at a G5 school. If they were really good, a P5 school could easily outbid Rice for their services.

Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

At the same time as he had some of the prominent names, he managed to rack up some real duds too. Some like Zaunbrecher, Driesbach etc.

So for all we know, it could be chance. He got lucky early on.
09-08-2016 01:15 PM
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RiceFootball2K5 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:52 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It seems as if his assistant coaching decisions were much better earlier in his time at Rice. I don't see a lot of recent assistants on that list.

He's had a lot of stability lately ... something a lot of us view as a bad thing for assistant coaches at a G5 school. If they were really good, a P5 school could easily outbid Rice for their services.

Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

Combination of 1) we don't pay assistants enough and 2) when they inevitably leave (because of #1), Bailiff gets his feelings hurt and hires someone who won't leave.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2016 01:34 PM by RiceFootball2K5.)
09-08-2016 01:33 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

Maybe more people have had more data on his whole body of work as the years have gone by and it has affected their perceptions of Coach Bailiff? Remember, when Rice first hired him, he did have only a few years head coaching experience, and back then he looked pretty good with that Texas State runner-up season sandwiched in between the two other not-so-good seasons?
09-08-2016 03:18 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 01:15 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:52 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It seems as if his assistant coaching decisions were much better earlier in his time at Rice. I don't see a lot of recent assistants on that list.

He's had a lot of stability lately ... something a lot of us view as a bad thing for assistant coaches at a G5 school. If they were really good, a P5 school could easily outbid Rice for their services.

Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

At the same time as he had some of the prominent names, he managed to rack up some real duds too. Some like Zaunbrecher, Driesbach etc.

So for all we know, it could be chance. He got lucky early on.

No. We know better than that. You don't get to be a D1 college football coach by chance. Either give him some credit for doing enough to get to Rice on his own or give him credit for finding good assistants along the way.

A clear case of you attributing all problems to Bailiff and anything good to something else.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2016 03:21 PM by cr11owl.)
09-08-2016 03:20 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 03:18 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

Maybe more people have had more data on his whole body of work as the years have gone by and it has affected their perceptions of Coach Bailiff? Remember, when Rice first hired him, he did have only a few years head coaching experience, and back then he looked pretty good with that Texas State runner-up season sandwiched in between the two other not-so-good seasons?

Or coaches felt that coming to Rice was a dead end because we couldn't even fund working showers? I find it impressive how quickly people fall into place and don't seem to think more critically about a situation.

In all honesty, I think it is most likely that DB got lucky by hiring some truly talented guys at the beginning and then has whiffed on subsequent hires.

I don't think his reputation or facilities have played a large role, unless we find out that he has been recruiting coaches and they have been turning him down. He obviously has shown that coaches can come here and go on to do good, if not great things, so why would coaches stay away?
09-08-2016 03:34 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 03:20 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 01:15 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:52 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It seems as if his assistant coaching decisions were much better earlier in his time at Rice. I don't see a lot of recent assistants on that list.

He's had a lot of stability lately ... something a lot of us view as a bad thing for assistant coaches at a G5 school. If they were really good, a P5 school could easily outbid Rice for their services.

Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

At the same time as he had some of the prominent names, he managed to rack up some real duds too. Some like Zaunbrecher, Driesbach etc.

So for all we know, it could be chance. He got lucky early on.

No. We know better than that. You don't get to be a D1 college football coach by chance. Either give him some credit for doing enough to get to Rice on his own or give him credit for finding good assistants along the way.

A clear case of you attributing all problems to Bailiff and anything good to something else.

Hahaha. Funny.

We've seen time and again that clown shows manage to keep getting hired despite being terrible coaches. Sorry, every once in a while a blind squirrel can find an acorn.

Or, rather than just whining about my theory, perchance you have one too?
09-08-2016 03:44 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 03:34 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 03:18 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

Maybe more people have had more data on his whole body of work as the years have gone by and it has affected their perceptions of Coach Bailiff? Remember, when Rice first hired him, he did have only a few years head coaching experience, and back then he looked pretty good with that Texas State runner-up season sandwiched in between the two other not-so-good seasons?

Or coaches felt that coming to Rice was a dead end because we couldn't even fund working showers? I find it impressive how quickly people fall into place and don't seem to think more critically about a situation.

In all honesty, I think it is most likely that DB got lucky by hiring some truly talented guys at the beginning and then has whiffed on subsequent hires.

I don't think his reputation or facilities have played a large role, unless we find out that he has been recruiting coaches and they have been turning him down. He obviously has shown that coaches can come here and go on to do good, if not great things, so why would coaches stay away?

This seems the most likely.
09-08-2016 03:45 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 03:44 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 03:20 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 01:15 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:52 PM)mrbig Wrote:  He's had a lot of stability lately ... something a lot of us view as a bad thing for assistant coaches at a G5 school. If they were really good, a P5 school could easily outbid Rice for their services.

Yeah. I wonder what changed? Did DB think that hiring such good coaches, which led to high turnover was a bad thing because his players did not have time to find a groove with each coach? Did his budget change and thus he could start affording to hold on to coaches he thought were doing a good job? Did he start hiring worse coaches for some reason?

So many questions and so much speculation.

At the same time as he had some of the prominent names, he managed to rack up some real duds too. Some like Zaunbrecher, Driesbach etc.

So for all we know, it could be chance. He got lucky early on.

No. We know better than that. You don't get to be a D1 college football coach by chance. Either give him some credit for doing enough to get to Rice on his own or give him credit for finding good assistants along the way.

A clear case of you attributing all problems to Bailiff and anything good to something else.

Hahaha. Funny.

We've seen time and again that clown shows manage to keep getting hired despite being terrible coaches. Sorry, every once in a while a blind squirrel can find an acorn.

Or, rather than just whining about my theory, perchance you have one too?

i have a theory, maybe it takes some time to move from a rice assistant to a head coach. That would explain why newer hires are not coaching P5s already.

I remember when the astute observers here thought Herman was a clown show. Was he McGuffie up the middle or was that Beatty?

Shouldn't Thor be on the list, too? Wasn't he here for a cup of coffee?
09-08-2016 03:50 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 03:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Was he McGuffie up the middle or was that Beatty?

That phrase has became tattooed on my brain as the actual name of a play any time I see a play like that whether college, pro or high school.
09-08-2016 04:00 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-08-2016 03:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I remember when the astute observers here thought Herman was a clown show. Was he McGuffie up the middle or was that Beatty?

McGuffie played at Rice in 2010 (Beaty as OC), 2011 (Reagan as OC), and 2012 (Reagan as OC). I remember McGuffie-up-the-middle most prominently in 2010, because I remember Cook (who moved to TE in 2011) coming into a game as QB right before the half and being excited to see him air it out some, only to watch handoffs to McGuffie between the tackles on 5 straight plays. McGuffie was moved to WR in 2012.

(09-08-2016 04:00 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 03:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Was he McGuffie up the middle or was that Beatty?

That phrase has became tattooed on my brain as the actual name of a play any time I see a play like that whether college, pro or high school.

I actually think part of the failure on those plays was McGuffie. It seemed like he was so fast and so explosive that he would get to the LOS before the o-line even had a chance to open up a hole. Probably would have had more success between the tackles if he had been a little more patient, like Tyler Smith and Ross. Did Rice run many zone reads in those days? Seems like that would have been a good way to get McGuffie outside the tackles.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2016 04:10 PM by mrbig.)
09-08-2016 04:05 PM
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Pan95 Offline
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RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
Just throwing this out there. Just because a play ends up as "McGuffie up the middle" doesn't mean that initial call or intent of the play was indeed "McGuffie up the middle." I can't speak as to whether Beaty was obtuse and stubborn as an OC, but it is an unfair generalization of Beaty's play calling acumen to suggest that the McGuffie dive was 90% of his play book. There are many variables such as 11 men on offense, 5 line man blocking, perhaps the QB was a step off in his turn to hand off the ball, or maybe the A gap appeared to be open. Another set of factors to consider would be the defensive alignment, i.e., the other 11 guys we are trying to beat. Something else to consider is tendencies. Perhaps we were trying to exploit a team's propensity to take away the outside run by showcasing runs between the tackles. IIRC, 2010 was the year McHargue was the RS Freshman starter against UT at Reliant. Taylor was one of the most effective zone read QBs I've seen with regard to his ability for deception. But maybe defenses were taking the outside option away leaving only the inside option available at the mesh point. Regardless, there are many variations and for proof, I offer this article: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/11/26/5...s-panthers
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2016 11:09 AM by Pan95.)
09-08-2016 05:41 PM
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ranfin Offline
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RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
The problem was, whatever the justification, McGuffie up the middle didn't work.....repeatedly.



(09-08-2016 05:41 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  Just throwing this out there. Just because a play ends up as "McGuffie up the middle" doesn't mean that initial call or intent of the play was indeed "McGuffie up the middle." I can't speak as to whether Beaty was obtuse and stubborn as an OC, but it is an unfair generalization of Beaty's play calling acumen to suggest that the McGuffie dive was 90% of his play book. There are many variables such as 11 men on offense, 5 line man blocking, perhaps the QB was a step off in his turn to hand off the ball, or maybe the A gap appeared to be open. Another set of factors to consider would be the defensive alignment, i.e., the other 11 guys we are trying to beat. Something else to consider is tendencies. Perhaps we were trying to exploit a team's propensity to take away the outside run but showcasing runs between the tackles. IIRC, 2010 was the year McHargue was the RS Freshman starter against UT at Reliant. Taylor was one of the most effective zone read QBs I've seen with regard to his ability for deception. But maybe defenses were taking the outside option away leaving only the inside option available at the mesh point. Regardless, there are many variations and for proof, I offer this article: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/11/26/5...s-panthers
09-09-2016 09:24 AM
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ranfin Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
The problem was, whatever the justification, McGuffie up the middle didn't work.....repeatedly.



(09-08-2016 05:41 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  Just throwing this out there. Just because a play ends up as "McGuffie up the middle" doesn't mean that initial call or intent of the play was indeed "McGuffie up the middle." I can't speak as to whether Beaty was obtuse and stubborn as an OC, but it is an unfair generalization of Beaty's play calling acumen to suggest that the McGuffie dive was 90% of his play book. There are many variables such as 11 men on offense, 5 line man blocking, perhaps the QB was a step off in his turn to hand off the ball, or maybe the A gap appeared to be open. Another set of factors to consider would be the defensive alignment, i.e., the other 11 guys we are trying to beat. Something else to consider is tendencies. Perhaps we were trying to exploit a team's propensity to take away the outside run but showcasing runs between the tackles. IIRC, 2010 was the year McHargue was the RS Freshman starter against UT at Reliant. Taylor was one of the most effective zone read QBs I've seen with regard to his ability for deception. But maybe defenses were taking the outside option away leaving only the inside option available at the mesh point. Regardless, there are many variations and for proof, I offer this article: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/11/26/5...s-panthers
09-09-2016 09:34 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
and seemed a waste of his exceptional speed. Perhaps the best combination of strength and speed we've had in decades?
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2016 10:19 AM by Hambone10.)
09-09-2016 10:18 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-09-2016 10:18 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  and seemed a waste of his exceptional speed.

Yep, using him on the outside worked much better. That way he at least had a chance to lose 5+ yards as he retreated backwards trying to elude defenders...

But in all seriousness, the staff did seem at a loss with regards to how to use McGuffie. I think having a better QB would have helped because it would have at least forced defenses to be honest and not crowd the line of scrimmage. But then again, we would have had to stop rushing him up the middle nearly every time.
09-09-2016 10:21 AM
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Pan95 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Bailiff Coaching Tree
(09-09-2016 10:18 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  and seemed a waste of his exceptional speed. Perhaps the best combination of strength and speed we've had in decades?

I completely agree. I think the coaches wised up when they moved him to slot receiver the next year.
09-09-2016 11:11 AM
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