Interesting to see G5 travel expenses in this new ESPN database. MAC has a $1+ million advantage over the other G5 conferences. MWC will always have challenges due to the west being less populated, but CUSA, Sun Belt, and even the AAC all cover the same market and really just need to align themselves more regionally.


MAC - Ohio U - $1.7 Million
CUSA - Marshall - $2.9 Million
AAC- Cincy - $3.8 Million
Sun Belt - Texas State - $2.5 Million
MWC - Colorado State - $2.6 Million


source:
https://b2.caspio.com/dp.asp?AppKey=900c...2442d596df

You always bring this up. I just don't think in the grand scheme of things it is that big of a deal or else people would have rectified the situation sooner.

(09-04-2016 07:33 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  You always bring this up. I just don't think in the grand scheme of things it is that big of a deal or else people would have rectified the situation sooner.

After CUSA new TV contract, a million dollars makes a difference when you want to pay the full COA among other things. It wasn't discussed much before but reality is starting to hit and conversation's are beginning.

(09-04-2016 07:33 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  You always bring this up. I just don't think in the grand scheme of things it is that big of a deal or else people would have rectified the situation sooner.

Television was previously rewarding growing larger. MAC used to be tied with Sun Belt in dollars per team TV, now they are ahead of Sun Belt and CUSA and MWC appears to be concerned about the next TV deal (thus Craig Thompson broaching the issue of expansion) and AAC is likely concerned what happens if raided by Big XII.

If TV dollars decline per team then you have to recover the decline in revenue either by self-generating more, transferring more, or cutting expenses.

(1) These numbers are not audited by any outside accounting firm. They are just what the school reports or enters in its own books. Take them with a grain of salt. Be skeptical.

(2) As to whatever discrepancies do exist, much of it is probably due to an athletic department's ambitions and resources. A program like Cincinnati has big aspirations; they are more likely to let their coaches schedule games in distant places. Other schools that are just trying to make ends meet and don't have the donation base of a school like Cincinnati are probably telling their coaches, in every sport, that nearly all non-conference road games/matches/meets have to be scheduled within bus-ride distance.

(09-04-2016 08:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  (1) These numbers are not audited by any outside accounting firm. They are just what the school reports or enters in its own books. Take them with a grain of salt. Be skeptical.

(2) As to whatever discrepancies do exist, much of it is probably due to an athletic department's ambitions and resources. A program like Cincinnati has big aspirations; they are more likely to let their coaches schedule games in distant places. Other schools that are just trying to make ends meet and don't have the donation base of a school like Cincinnati are probably telling their coaches, in every sport, that nearly all non-conference road games/matches/meets have to be scheduled within bus-ride distance.

I posted a link about Wyoming. It is a concern for them right now as well. They have to trim money. Which is a surprise that MWC came out with an article about expansion. Adding 4 might help moving both Utah State and Boise State to the west. Add Portland State, Montana, Montana State and UTEP might help Wyoming our oon their budget.

(09-04-2016 08:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  (1) These numbers are not audited by any outside accounting firm. They are just what the school reports or enters in its own books. Take them with a grain of salt. Be skeptical.

(2) As to whatever discrepancies do exist, much of it is probably due to an athletic department's ambitions and resources. A program like Cincinnati has big aspirations; they are more likely to let their coaches schedule games in distant places. Other schools that are just trying to make ends meet and don't have the donation base of a school like Cincinnati are probably telling their coaches, in every sport, that nearly all non-conference road games/matches/meets have to be scheduled within bus-ride distance.

3) Some schools sponsor more sports than others accounting for differences.

Most G5 programs are bringing in 8-10 million in revenue so an extra million in travel cost is important plus traveling further for athletic competition is taxing on the student athlete.

(09-04-2016 07:11 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Interesting to see G5 travel expenses in this new ESPN database. MAC has a $1+ million advantage over the other G5 conferences. MWC will always have challenges due to the west being less populated, but CUSA, Sun Belt, and even the AAC all cover the same market and really just need to align themselves more regionally.


MAC - Ohio U - $1.7 Million
CUSA - Marshall - $2.9 Million
AAC- Cincy - $3.8 Million
Sun Belt - Texas State - $2.5 Million
MWC - Colorado State - $2.6 Million


source:
https://b2.caspio.com/dp.asp?AppKey=900c...2442d596df

Got $2.2 m for Miami last year. Did you subtract hockey for last year, as most of Miami games are by air?

The question in my mind is how does the MAC compare with the AAC on travel.

Bowling Green 1.53 mil
Ohio 1.78 mil
Toledo 1.84 mil
CMU 1.87 mil
Akron 1.96 mil
Ball St. 1.97 mil
EMU 2.07 mil
Miami 2.22 mil
NIU 2.38 mil
Kent St 2.74 mil
Buffalo 2.74 mil
WMU 2.78 mil

UCF 2.63 mil
Houston 3.5 mil
Cincinnati 3.83 mil
USF 3.96 mil
ECU 4.07 mil
Memphis 4.21 mil
UConn 7.53 mil

Not every school in the AAC reported travel $$$ but from the numbers I'm seeing it looks like right around 4 million for an AAC travel budget where in the MAC 2 million is typical.

How is 1 million more per year on the TV deal going to cover travel?

I think the argument us that the conferences became fat and bloated with no regards to travel thinking they were going to make millions and millions in TV money that isnt there and isnt coming...

So it would not be surpriaing if the bottom teir conferences expanded or shrunk with travel in mind instead of TV because the subusidies schools get from the goveremnet are only going to shrink...

How about the MAC vs. AAC in coaching salaries?

Buffalo 4.97 mil
NIU 4.08 mil
Bowling Green 4.97 mil
Ball St 5.13 mil
Ohio 5.2 mil
CMU 5.62 mil
EMU 5.63 mil
Toledo 5.68 mil
Akron 5.90 mil
Kent St 6.0 mil
Miami 6.05 mil
WMU 6.30 mil

ECU 7.74 mil
USF 8.22 mil
UCF 8.84 mil
Houston 9.84 mil
Memphis 11.2 mil
Cincinnati 13.0 mil
UConn 16.9 mil

The median AAC expenses on salaries is about 9.5 million compared to about 5.5 million for the MAC. That is another 4 million in difference that has to be made up by revenue.

A MAC school would have to commit to a 50% increase in student fees to make a move. Politically that is a tough sell.

Lot of factors in travel beyond distance.
Let's take a baseball trip, roughly 30 people in the traveling party. You are traveling to a three game league series Friday and Saturday night plus a Sunday afternoon game.
For this let's assume 18 hotel rooms.

One school may leave early Friday and return Sunday evening. Nine meals for an outlay of roughly $2700.
Another will leave after breakfast Friday, only eight meals saving around $300.
Another may leave late Thursday adding a meal at around $300 and an additional hotel night.

One school may go for the cheapest non-drug house hotel that will run about $360 less per night than staying in a business traveler standby like Holiday Inn Express, Fairfield, Springhill, Hampton.
Another will go for the business traveler standby's
Yet another will go up a class with nicer hotels usually offering better meeting facilities and will run about $360 a night more than the business class.

Just choosing a different hotel can swing costs over $700 a night.

I wouldn't be even mildly surprised to find UConn charters flights for men's and women's basketball while Houston might opt to use commercial because of the abundance of direct flights out of Houston That's a big difference in travel expense.

(09-04-2016 09:48 PM)00yyz Wrote:  I think the argument us that the conferences became fat and bloated with no regards to travel thinking they were going to make millions and millions in TV money that isnt there and isnt coming...

So it would not be surpriaing if the bottom teir conferences expanded or shrunk with travel in mind instead of TV because the subusidies schools get from the goveremnet are only going to shrink...

Right. Cincinnati, Houston ect. all committed down this path 20 years ago by moving into CUSA then the Big East. As the P5 expanded the TV money dried up.

UCF was able to commit more money to athletics as a rapidly growing school moving from the ASun to CUSA to the AAC.

UMass travel cost I will note is 3.9 mil, on par with the AAC average travel expense. I doubt travel costs had they put their sports in the MAC could be much higher than that.

(09-04-2016 07:11 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Interesting to see G5 travel expenses in this new ESPN database. MAC has a $1+ million advantage over the other G5 conferences. MWC will always have challenges due to the west being less populated, but CUSA, Sun Belt, and even the AAC all cover the same market and really just need to align themselves more regionally.


MAC - Ohio U - $1.7 Million
CUSA - Marshall - $2.9 Million
AAC- Cincy - $3.8 Million
Sun Belt - Texas State - $2.5 Million
MWC - Colorado State - $2.6 Million


source:
https://b2.caspio.com/dp.asp?AppKey=900c...2442d596df

AAC is serving more lobster on the flights. It is supposed to be about the student athlete, right?


.

I applaud the schools choosing to spend more on travel.

You put your student-athletes through heck, shuttling them around the country to play games during the school year. At least you can give them some niceties to help them out: charter flights instead of commercial flights, flights instead of long haul busing, catered food instead of restaurants/fast-casual, nicer hotels vs crappy hotels, etc.


College athletics isn't a damn for-profit business. Put away the friggin ROI sheets.

(09-05-2016 10:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I applaud the schools choosing to spend more on travel.

You put your student-athletes through heck, shuttling them around the country to play games during the school year. At least you can give them some niceties to help them out: charter flights instead of commercial flights, flights instead of long haul busing, catered food instead of restaurants/fast-casual, nicer hotels vs crappy hotels, etc.


College athletics isn't a damn for-profit business. Put away the friggin ROI sheets.

I mostly agree but I also remember having classes with baseball players and wondered how they ever managed to pass when they were leaving early because the coach wanted them more rested on the road.

(09-05-2016 10:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I applaud the schools choosing to spend more on travel.

You put your student-athletes through heck, shuttling them around the country to play games during the school year. At least you can give them some niceties to help them out: charter flights instead of commercial flights, flights instead of long haul busing, catered food instead of restaurants/fast-casual, nicer hotels vs crappy hotels, etc.


College athletics isn't a damn for-profit business. Put away the friggin ROI sheets.

You are 100% correct it is not a for profit business it is a huge gigantic money losing machine outside of the P5 that tax payers and students spend over 1 Billion a year subsudising...

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

If schools have money to burn ala Texas I dont care if they take charted flights...
If schools are losing millions they should be bused or comerical flights...
If these mighty student athletes are nothing more than babies who cant handle a bus ride or commercial flight they should quit...

This could also effect P5 schools like West Virginia. It could effect them in the long run for all their sports. I do think P5 might have to do the same for the other sports to be more regional.

The only teams with over $8 million in travel expenses:
Ohio State - 9.8 million
Florida State - 9.38
Minnesota - 9.25
Wisconsin - 9.15
West Virginia - 9.14
Michigan - 8.67
Kentucky - 8.47
Florida - 8.46
UCLA - 8.09

Ohio State is probably first because they sponsor the most sports (49). Michigan (27) also sponsors a lot more than most schools.

West Virginia, Florida, Florida State, and UCLA have to fly to almost every conference game. But so do a bunch of other schools so I'm not sure why their expenses are so much higher.

The big surprises are Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Kentucky.