(09-02-2016 09:34 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  All this does is show that the people who want FBS but decreased their giving just shot themselves in the foot

Here! Here! I say, here! Here!

(09-02-2016 12:09 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  JMU fans are so spoiled. After spending 2 years away from JMU at a different university, I got a sense of just how different things worked at other places. Our ridiculous student fees have shielded the alumni and fans from really having to contribute. Everyone gives whatever they give and then screams about how big our budget is and how they want more. At nearly every FBS school, that's not how it works. If you want more, you give more. Similar to how the Alpha Dogs here at JMU work - they wanted a nicer locker room for the team, so they gave more money and made it happen.

This financial outlook may seem bleak but it's the truth. We (as a fanbase) can't keep saying how much we want FBS without financially supporting the athletic department better. For a school this size, $2.5 million in athletic contributions is just not enough. We should be contributing double or triple that. Y'all talk about small time thinking. That small time thinking isn't just coming from the administration.

+1

Another problem no one has pointed out was that corporate giving was 1.4M while Duke club donations were 2.5M. That's a problem and corporate contributions should always exceed our fan giving numbers, I would think.
Corporations can afford a lot more than individuals can. It's a product of our region I suppose.

(09-02-2016 12:29 PM)Potomac Wrote:  Another problem no one has pointed out was that corporate giving was 1.4M while Duke club donations were 2.5M. That's a problem and corporate contributions should always exceed our fan giving numbers, I would think.
Corporations can afford a lot more than individuals can. It's a product of our region I suppose.

Yeah that number really needs to climb. I'm not sure if corporations just aren't lining up to support JMU Athletics or if we're picky on who we want to partner with and what we'll let them name. Renaming University Park is an awesome step. I'm sure whoever puts their name on the new Convo will have to fork over a decent amount too.

I'd be very curious to see the corporate giving levels for the G5 conferences. I would imagine it's probably only marginally higher on average than JMU's number, especially the lower tier (exclude mwc and AAC).

Corporations who have that kind of money to burn don't want to spend it for local impact. They want at least regional and likely national impact.

The bulk of Corporate sponsorships flow to the high profile sports, not to the Olympic sports.
Thus, all sports being equal is not a good negotiation starter for JMU with corporations. Football and basketball are MORE important to corporate sponsors. That is where they want their name branded.
I have high hopes for the new convo, but anyone would be fooling themselves if they have high hopes for a FCS football program. Fortune 500 companies don't want to be associated with lower tier athletics. Big sponsorship dollars can only be justified by big marketing/branding impact.

Move to FBS, combine with a new convo, and play excellent competition, then you can attract some big money sponsors.

How does this make any sense?

"Unlike some institutions, JMU does not offer tuition waivers whereby the cost of an athletic scholarship is forgiven or an out-of-state scholarship is charged at the in-state rate. Athletics pays the university the full scholarship costs associated with each athletic scholarship."

The cost of a scholarship should be standardized as in-state tuition across the board. Why does JMU insist on creating roadblocks at every step. We use a different accounting method, we us a different scholarship cost method... It just seems we are our own worst enemies. 50-100 out-of-state scholarships across all sports (just a guess). That's in the neighborhood of $1-2 million difference. That alone covers the CAA exit fee. Our university is being run by lawyers and accountants (no offense to you lawyers and accountants on the board...) but, these occupations are not typically associated with innovation and risk-taking.

(09-02-2016 12:53 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Corporations who have that kind of money to burn don't want to spend it for local impact. They want at least regional and likely national impact.

The bulk of Corporate sponsorships flow to the high profile sports, not to the Olympic sports.
Thus, all sports being equal is not a good negotiation starter for JMU with corporations. Football and basketball are MORE important to corporate sponsors. That is where they want their name branded.
I have high hopes for the new convo, but anyone would be fooling themselves if they have high hopes for a FCS football program. Fortune 500 companies don't want to be associated with lower tier athletics. Big sponsorship dollars can only be justified by big marketing/branding impact.

Move to FBS, combine with a new convo, and play excellent competition, then you can attract some big money sponsors.

Anyone know what Sentara is paying JMU? It's a 4 year deal. What would you pay? I'll bet it's between 15000-25000 per year.

(09-02-2016 12:55 PM)Rockville Duke Wrote:  How does this make any sense?

"Unlike some institutions, JMU does not offer tuition waivers whereby the cost of an athletic scholarship is forgiven or an out-of-state scholarship is charged at the in-state rate. Athletics pays the university the full scholarship costs associated with each athletic scholarship."

The cost of a scholarship should be standardized as in-state tuition across the board. Why does JMU insist on creating roadblocks at every step. We use a different accounting method, we us a different scholarship cost method... It just seems we are our own worst enemies. 50-100 out-of-state scholarships across all sports (just a guess). That's in the neighborhood of $1-2 million difference. That alone covers the CAA exit fee. Our university is being run by lawyers and accountants (no offense to you lawyers and accountants on the board...) but, these occupations are not typically associated with innovation and risk-taking.

In the state of NC, this is a legislative decision, not an individual school decision. I assume JMU is subsidized by the taxpayers? If so, it sounds like your lawmakers(like ours), want state subsidized institutions to focus on in-state students, and recognizing the full cost of out-of-state student scholarships is a way to financially encourage athletic departments to scour the state of VA for recruits.
UNCW was just forced to increase out of state tuition due to our greater than average demand.

Bigger picture thought. It is apparent to me as an outsider that JMU admin was full bore on obtaining FBS. The investments alone make that clear. It also appears that the huge change in FBS, lower conference TV revenues and a legislative mandate on student fees has increased the risk along with the expenses that have already increased with the investments.

It is apparent to me that your admin has laid the following on the table. If you want FBS, donations must increase significantly to offset the new realities of FBS participation. Not sure how else you could take it.

(09-02-2016 12:53 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Corporations who have that kind of money to burn don't want to spend it for local impact. They want at least regional and likely national impact.

The bulk of Corporate sponsorships flow to the high profile sports, not to the Olympic sports.
Thus, all sports being equal is not a good negotiation starter for JMU with corporations. Football and basketball are MORE important to corporate sponsors. That is where they want their name branded.
I have high hopes for the new convo, but anyone would be fooling themselves if they have high hopes for a FCS football program. Fortune 500 companies don't want to be associated with lower tier athletics. Big sponsorship dollars can only be justified by big marketing/branding impact.

Move to FBS, combine with a new convo, and play excellent competition, then you can attract some big money sponsors.

Exactly, without corporate donations, looking to build a higher profile athletics program won't happen easily. I would love to see JMU become a FBS program but we have a lot more hurdles if you just look at the demographics of the Harrisonburg area. If you look at ODU (if you dare) there are tons of small to medium sizes corporations in the Tidewater area compared to H-burg. The JMU to the FBS will need to be "self-funded" first, then the corporate money will follow the success. Aside from JMU, anyone know who the larger businesses are in the area?

I feel there is an important point missing from the Bourne letter. What is the return on the investment? It focuses on the cost of FBS but says little about what the advantages are.

I haven't emailed Bourne yet but I want to see if he'll consider a dialogue addressing the other side of this financial coin. What revenues exist and what will it take to get to the fbs goal, financially speaking.

I doesn't matter when you have a Diversity Attorney as the President.

It seems that we need to make cuts and big cuts. Begin with the Athletic Department. We don't need as many people collecting paychecks as we have for the product
that we putting on the field year in and year out.

i respect the ODAC more than the CAA.

(09-02-2016 12:20 PM)Potomac Wrote:  What's that saying? Put your money where your mouth is? I don't think there's a truer cliche term to apply to this message board.
We want nice things but aren't willing to pay for them.

(09-02-2016 01:06 PM)82hawk Wrote:  It is apparent to me that your admin has laid the following on the table. If you want FBS, donations must increase significantly to offset the new realities of FBS participation. Not sure how else you could take it.

I don't think very many people trust the JMU administration with donation dollars anymore. How could anyone (Jeff Bourne included) expect people to up their donations for a promise of an FBS move "sometime in the future?" Have those people not been paying attention for the past 9 years of wink-wink-nudge-nudge? At this point, if JMU expects people to donate for an FBS move before they announce an invite, then it is NEVER going to happen.

I seem to remember ODU accepting a CUSA invite, BEFORE hitting up their donor base for increased contributions. Then, they were blown away by how much money they were able to fund-raise. Why does JMU not trust its alumni base to do the same?

(09-02-2016 01:41 PM)NYJMUPIKE Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 12:20 PM)Potomac Wrote:  What's that saying? Put your money where your mouth is? I don't think there's a truer cliche term to apply to this message board.
We want nice things but aren't willing to pay for them.

(09-02-2016 01:06 PM)82hawk Wrote:  It is apparent to me that your admin has laid the following on the table. If you want FBS, donations must increase significantly to offset the new realities of FBS participation. Not sure how else you could take it.

I don't think very many people trust the JMU administration with donation dollars anymore. How could anyone (Jeff Bourne included) expect people to up their donations for a promise of an FBS move "sometime in the future?" Have those people not been paying attention for the past 9 years of wink-wink-nudge-nudge? At this point, if JMU expects people to donate for an FBS move before they announce an invite, then it is NEVER going to happen.

I seem to remember ODU accepting a CUSA invite, BEFORE hitting up their donor base for increased contributions. Then, they were blown away by how much money they were able to fund-raise. Why does JMU not trust its alumni base to do the same?

Fundamentally this is the issue. Some folks believe if you donate, we will move up. Others believe, move up and then we will donate.

The vast majority are not engaged at all. What's the best way to get them engaged?

Perhaps the divide would not be so great if we had not turned down CUSA a long while back (under a different president) or SB, last year, under the current president. There are smart, knowledgeable folks on this board and there is a 3M view thread on all the possible landing spots and dominos that would have to fall. It is now unlikely that a spot will open up for JMU in a conference they would agree to based on the current movements. Most people thinking of donating specifically to the move up cause, need to see a path. It appears to them that the path is currently blocked.

It is just my opinion, but after thinking about it, I believe todays dialogue was an early dampening of expectations on the FBS front, well ahead of any movement that will not include us.

JMU is what it is. I don't agree with it because I think JMU could be so much more, but I am okay with it.

#CAA4LYFE


PS. I hope I am wrong

(09-02-2016 01:41 PM)NYJMUPIKE Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 12:20 PM)Potomac Wrote:  What's that saying? Put your money where your mouth is? I don't think there's a truer cliche term to apply to this message board.
We want nice things but aren't willing to pay for them.

(09-02-2016 01:06 PM)82hawk Wrote:  It is apparent to me that your admin has laid the following on the table. If you want FBS, donations must increase significantly to offset the new realities of FBS participation. Not sure how else you could take it.

I don't think very many people trust the JMU administration with donation dollars anymore. How could anyone (Jeff Bourne included) expect people to up their donations for a promise of an FBS move "sometime in the future?" Have those people not been paying attention for the past 9 years of wink-wink-nudge-nudge? At this point, if JMU expects people to donate for an FBS move before they announce an invite, then it is NEVER going to happen.

I seem to remember ODU accepting a CUSA invite, BEFORE hitting up their donor base for increased contributions. Then, they were blown away by how much money they were able to fund-raise. Why does JMU not trust its alumni base to do the same?

-"18-24"
-"buy club seats while you can"
-"read between the lines"
-"Carr Report"
-"Its not if, it is when"

followed by Money Matters... Confusing for sure.

I appreciate the attempt of transparency if that is what it is, many of us see it as the next why we can't/won't.

As pointed out above, Bourne ignoring the positive side of a move (bigger pay-day) is rather telling.

(09-02-2016 01:51 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  It is just my opinion, but after thinking about it, I believe todays dialogue was an early dampening of expectations on the FBS front, well ahead of any movement that will not include us.

Agreed. I don't think the B12 moves are going to result in any FCS call-ups. I suspect the G5 will realign amongst themselves, and CUSA will be happy to end up at 12.

I found this email very informative. It laid out all the facts as to why JMU's budget is different, and the risks and financial issues that will present itself should JMU go FBS or stay in the CAA - some of which is specific to being a VA state school.

When I see these Bourne Dialogue's I tend to roll my eyes as I open it up. I thought this one was very well done.

As far as dampening expectations, I just saw it as some cold hard facts. Expenses will rise no matter what. If you want to go FBS the revenues have to come from somewhere.

(09-02-2016 01:52 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 01:41 PM)NYJMUPIKE Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 12:20 PM)Potomac Wrote:  What's that saying? Put your money where your mouth is? I don't think there's a truer cliche term to apply to this message board.
We want nice things but aren't willing to pay for them.

(09-02-2016 01:06 PM)82hawk Wrote:  It is apparent to me that your admin has laid the following on the table. If you want FBS, donations must increase significantly to offset the new realities of FBS participation. Not sure how else you could take it.

I don't think very many people trust the JMU administration with donation dollars anymore. How could anyone (Jeff Bourne included) expect people to up their donations for a promise of an FBS move "sometime in the future?" Have those people not been paying attention for the past 9 years of wink-wink-nudge-nudge? At this point, if JMU expects people to donate for an FBS move before they announce an invite, then it is NEVER going to happen.

I seem to remember ODU accepting a CUSA invite, BEFORE hitting up their donor base for increased contributions. Then, they were blown away by how much money they were able to fund-raise. Why does JMU not trust its alumni base to do the same?

-"18-24"
-"buy club seats while you can"
-"read between the lines"
-"Carr Report"
-"Its not if, it is when"

followed by Money Matters... Confusing for sure.

I appreciate the attempt of transparency if that is what it is, many of us see it as the next why we can't/won't.

As pointed out above, Bourne ignoring the positive side of a move (bigger pay-day) is rather telling.

We can talk about these nebulous "positives" all we want, but that doesn't change the fact that moving up to FBS will be incredibly expensive for JMU. Bourne laid out the financials in decent detail and I'm sure he would go into more specifics if you reached out to him. I'm no Bourne apologist. I understand how the JMU admin has dropped the ball with regards to conference realignment. But that doesn't mean that this message from Bourne isn't accurate.

Like I said earlier, JMU fans are so spoiled. We've achieved an incredible amount of success (across all sports) for the amount that we (as fans) contribute back to the athletic department. We can't expect JMU to just "find the money" or "rearrange money" in the budget. We can't just keep passing the buck onto the students. If we want to be an FBS school, we've got to start contributing like we're an FBS school.

(09-02-2016 02:19 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 01:52 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 01:41 PM)NYJMUPIKE Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 12:20 PM)Potomac Wrote:  What's that saying? Put your money where your mouth is? I don't think there's a truer cliche term to apply to this message board.
We want nice things but aren't willing to pay for them.

(09-02-2016 01:06 PM)82hawk Wrote:  It is apparent to me that your admin has laid the following on the table. If you want FBS, donations must increase significantly to offset the new realities of FBS participation. Not sure how else you could take it.

I don't think very many people trust the JMU administration with donation dollars anymore. How could anyone (Jeff Bourne included) expect people to up their donations for a promise of an FBS move "sometime in the future?" Have those people not been paying attention for the past 9 years of wink-wink-nudge-nudge? At this point, if JMU expects people to donate for an FBS move before they announce an invite, then it is NEVER going to happen.

I seem to remember ODU accepting a CUSA invite, BEFORE hitting up their donor base for increased contributions. Then, they were blown away by how much money they were able to fund-raise. Why does JMU not trust its alumni base to do the same?

-"18-24"
-"buy club seats while you can"
-"read between the lines"
-"Carr Report"
-"Its not if, it is when"

followed by Money Matters... Confusing for sure.

I appreciate the attempt of transparency if that is what it is, many of us see it as the next why we can't/won't.

As pointed out above, Bourne ignoring the positive side of a move (bigger pay-day) is rather telling.

We can talk about these nebulous "positives" all we want, but that doesn't change the fact that moving up to FBS will be incredibly expensive for JMU. Bourne laid out the financials in decent detail and I'm sure he would go into more specifics if you reached out to him. I'm no Bourne apologist. I understand how the JMU admin has dropped the ball with regards to conference realignment. But that doesn't mean that this message from Bourne isn't accurate.

Like I said earlier, JMU fans are so spoiled. We've achieved an incredible amount of success (across all sports) for the amount that we (as fans) contribute back to the athletic department. We can't expect JMU to just "find the money" or "rearrange money" in the budget. We can't just keep passing the buck onto the students. If we want to be an FBS school, we've got to start contributing like we're an FBS school.

I'm curious about this statement. Can you help me understand, relative to our peers, what this success is vs. what we contribute. I don't have access to how much other school's fans donate so I am just trying to understand this.

EDIT: I just did about 5 minutes of research on google. I decided to see if I could find out what a school like Ohio donates to their athletic program. Ohio popped into my head because I saw them earlier on a USA Today Athletic Budget list as being about 10M less than JMU or what JMU would be if they didn't have the facilities debt, had to pay for the lights and didn't include spirit teams in the athletic budget. I found an OHIO brochure from 2014 which showed the MAC's athletic giving. It turns out they had 500K in giving that year. Akron had 900K in athletic dept. donation vs. $2.5M for JMU according to Bourne's dialogue. I didn't want to comb through all the conference rankings for all sports for JMU or Ohio or Akron for that matter so I went to the Learfield Sports directors cup (used to be sears cup) which scores all schools on the overall success of their athletic programs. JMU is 94 and Akron is 71. Akron got 50 points for FB (for making or winning a bowl?) JMU got 9. Subtracting out those points, for FBS vs FCS differences puts Akron at 78 and JMU at 96 roughly.

I'm still interested in your first hand experience. I just did a quick swag.

Without reading all the responses I'd say this confirms what a lot of us have come to realize.

If you were investing in JMU in hopes they would go 1A, it's not going to happen. Based on current requirements/restrictions and this administration beliefs it's not going to happen any time soon.

We'll be a 1AA likely for most of the veterans on here's lifetime. Let's' face it, the current setup can't even attract enough funds for a Convo.

IAA is far from my preference. Watching ASU last night shows we can be a top 25 team in IA for some years if we moved up. I'll be there rooting for 1AA JMU tomorrow. Knowing that we won't be 1A any time soon will continue to always be a bit of a bummer to me.

My JMU football expectations have certainly reduced the last 12
months, but it is what it is.....

Go JMU - Beat Moorehead!