(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:36 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  There's a clear talent gap between us and the top four teams in CUSA. I couldn't believe my eyes last night at the speed WKU has, especially at WR. Our guys aren't athletic enough to keep up. The talent gap needs to close, and I hope the EZF will help.

There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:36 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  There's a clear talent gap between us and the top four teams in CUSA. I couldn't believe my eyes last night at the speed WKU has, especially at WR. Our guys aren't athletic enough to keep up. The talent gap needs to close, and I hope the EZF will help.

There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:36 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  There's a clear talent gap between us and the top four teams in CUSA. I couldn't believe my eyes last night at the speed WKU has, especially at WR. Our guys aren't athletic enough to keep up. The talent gap needs to close, and I hope the EZF will help.

There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

Per Wikipedia - 7 in the NFL on rosters, mostly from 2013 and 2014. That doesn't include the 3 players drafted last year.

Our talent definitely isn't as good as WKU. If you don't believe that, you're an idiot.

That is not to say that good coaching can't beat superior talent.

(09-02-2016 09:29 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Our talent definitely isn't as good as WKU. If you don't believe that, you're an idiot.

That is not to say that good coaching can't beat superior talent.

Ad hominem. That ends the conversation. Good day to you.

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

I think it says something. How do you read it as Rice being equal or better?

(09-02-2016 09:28 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

Per Wikipedia - 7 in the NFL on rosters, mostly from 2013 and 2014. That doesn't include the 3 players drafted last year.

How does players in the NFL tell us anything about about players on the field last night?

(09-02-2016 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

I think it says something. How do you read it as Rice being equal or better?

It says WKU is far better coached than Rice.

(09-02-2016 09:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:36 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  There's a clear talent gap between us and the top four teams in CUSA. I couldn't believe my eyes last night at the speed WKU has, especially at WR. Our guys aren't athletic enough to keep up. The talent gap needs to close, and I hope the EZF will help.

There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

These two things don't have to be mutually exclusive...

And when Bailiff has had talent, 2008 and 2013 (lots of NFL players there) for example, he has won.

That doesn't defend current results, but for some this is an unpleasant fact as well: We play as well as the players on the team, in comparison to the talent level on the teams we play. It was true in 1949, 1957, 1980-81, 1994, 1996-97, 2008 and 2013.

It's was also true in 1977-79, 1983, 1988, and 2005

The talent we have here is based on our recruiting and the coaches are responsible for that (obviously in the context of budget and what academic limits they deal with).

That doesn't mean we don't have good players on every team we put out there. It's a matter of how good, and the degree of depth.

WKU, who was undefeated in CUSA last year, is pretty obviously much better than we are right now. The degree to which they are better is disappointing and a little depressing.

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

... and whose responsibility is it to bring in said talent?

(09-02-2016 09:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:28 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

Per Wikipedia - 7 in the NFL on rosters, mostly from 2013 and 2014. That doesn't include the 3 players drafted last year.

How does players in the NFL tell us anything about about players on the field last night?

Not sure, but the info was requested.

I don't think WKU is Alabama, but posters on this board far too often discount teams because they have a direction in their name.

We played poorly, no doubt about it. But WKU looks to have a VERY good coach, a very athletic team, and QB who can make all the throws you want him to (announcers said he started two years at USF, and transferred for reasons not relating to playing time). They ended the year ranked 24 in the polls and look like they haven't missed a beat.

If only we had pulled the trigger last year, I'd at least have some hope that a new coach could turn things around from this debacle.

(09-02-2016 09:34 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

I think it says something. How do you read it as Rice being equal or better?

It says WKU is far better coached than Rice.

If I understand you, you are saying that two squads are of approximately equal talent, and the only difference is coaching. Do I have that right?

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

Is this what you guys do around here every time we lose? It's the first game for crying out loud, and it was against a vastly superior squad. Not to mention, we're breaking in a new offense. Stehling looked great to me. He's in for a big year. He can definitely throw a football.

(09-02-2016 09:36 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

... and whose responsibility is it to bring in said talent?

This. WKU's recruiting advantages - if any - aren't insurmountable.

(09-02-2016 09:38 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:36 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

... and whose responsibility is it to bring in said talent?

This. WKU's recruiting advantages - if any - aren't insurmountable.

Not insurmountable, but not insignificant either.

Maybe after this season we can hire the OC brother Brohm and see how well he can recruit to Rice. Especaily against his brother.

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:36 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  There's a clear talent gap between us and the top four teams in CUSA. I couldn't believe my eyes last night at the speed WKU has, especially at WR. Our guys aren't athletic enough to keep up. The talent gap needs to close, and I hope the EZF will help.

There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

When we had NFL caliber players on our roster, we had good records, recent and remote past both.

Are you saying that going down position by position THIS year, we match up with WKU?

Not happy with where we are either, but I watched the game last night, and it was not a game of evenly matched teams. Switching coaching staffs may have changed the score (some, who knows) but not the outcome.

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:36 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  There's a clear talent gap between us and the top four teams in CUSA. I couldn't believe my eyes last night at the speed WKU has, especially at WR. Our guys aren't athletic enough to keep up. The talent gap needs to close, and I hope the EZF will help.

There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Not totally true. Great coaches get the most out of their talent and devise schemes to offset their own weaknesses and exploit the other team's strength. Also, quality coaches when outmatched talent wise devise very aggressive-type game plans, recognizing that is their only chance of winning. Bailiff gets the least out of his talent, does not prepare his team for the opponent, uses the same game plan against everybody-- making very few if any changes or adjustments, and is ultra conservative in his offensive and defensive philosophy. The consequence is that we only have a chance of winning against teams we have a clear physical and athletic advantage over.

(09-02-2016 09:37 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:19 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

According to the Orlando Sentinel, it was #108 at #31.

Which says exactly nothing about relative player talent.

Is this what you guys do around here every time we lose? It's the first game for crying out loud, and it was against a vastly superior squad. Not to mention, we're breaking in a new offense. Stehling looked great to me. He's in for a big year. He can definitely throw a football.

To answer your question, yes we do this every time, win or lose. Sometimes we do it before the game.

I agree on Stehling. It's the WR who need to pick up their game.

Interesting stat. Zero sacks - by either team. Our DL needs to do better. Our OL needs to run black better, but by and large Stehling had protection.

(09-02-2016 09:42 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:10 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 09:00 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:43 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-02-2016 08:36 AM)raptorsareout Wrote:  There's a clear talent gap between us and the top four teams in CUSA. I couldn't believe my eyes last night at the speed WKU has, especially at WR. Our guys aren't athletic enough to keep up. The talent gap needs to close, and I hope the EZF will help.

There's also a significant coaching gap. Enough with the excuses.

That's fair, but even the greatest coaches aren't going to do anything with inferior talent. WKU was better than us in every position last night other than punter. Our guys appeared slow compared to theirs.

Anecdotal assertions of "inferior talent" aren't evidence. Provide some facts. How many former WKU players are on NFL rosters, for example? We weren't playing Alabama last night.

When we had NFL caliber players on our roster, we had good records, recent and remote past both.

Are you saying that going down position by position THIS year, we match up with WKU?

Not happy with where we are either, but I watched the game last night, and it was not a game of evenly matched teams. Switching coaching staffs may have changed the score (some, who knows) but not the outcome.

I think DB lived off of the quality of players associated with the 2008 results for a bit too long, and for some reason the cupboard is bare. Based on the results on the field last night, I don't think any of our players stood out in a positive way.