(08-31-2016 07:48 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(08-30-2016 06:40 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(08-30-2016 12:56 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  How come few ever seem to consider that we might be the most advanced civilization, even amidst a universe with other life in it? What if we are the first, and others should be afraid of us? Heck, we're pretty dangerous to ourselves!

The notion that we are the most advanced civilization is a possibility... There's a concept called "The Great Filter" that brings up idea that there's some sort of step in evolutionary life that is very difficult to achieve. Some believe this step was the transition between simple prokaryotic cells to complex eukaryote cells. If it's so difficult to make that jump, something only 0.00001% of life can complete, then there's a chance that we are in fact ahead of the curve when it comes to advanced species out there in the galaxy.

The thought that we have not experienced The Great Filter yet, though, is frightening.

But I tend to believe that in our 13 billion year universe, we are not the first to achieve this level of complexity. I don't believe we are special or unique when it comes to life in this universe.

Good point but would you care to expand on the highlighted thought. I'm taking your point to mean that we have had to already reached that stage in order to exist. Sort of like the anthropic principle.

Well, the Great Filter is just an event put forth as an answer to the Fermi Paradox. With all the billions and billions of galaxies, stars, and planets in the universe, how is it possible that we haven't been contacted by another intelligent lifeform yet. So it is hypothesized that there is an event deemed The Great Filter that makes it very difficult to go from the most basic form of life to a space faring, galactic species.



I don't know whether we've passed through The Great Filter yet, but I'm really really hoping that we have. Otherwise, the future for the human species looks pretty grim.

SO if The Great Filter is in our rear view mirrors, woohoo!!! We made it! Our species is one of the few who have gone from primordial soup to a intelligent species. The Great Filter could have been the step from amino acids, sugars, and other chemicals to the most basic form of life. Or it could have been the jump from the simple prokaryote cell to the complex eukaryote cell as I've mentioned before. Others think it could have been the jump from semi-intelligent life (like dolphins, chimps, etc) to intelligent life (ourselves, currently).

If The Great Filter is not in our rear view mirrors... We're in trouble. That means there's some sort of event out there that prevents 99.99999% of life from making it to a super advanced, galactic civilization. This event could be anything from a gamma ray burst from an exploding star somewhere in our neighborhood, to our own human nature (nuclear Apocalypse, world ending environmental disasters, etc..).

To reiterate, I don't know whether we've passed The Great Filter or not yet, let alone whether there actually is an event called The Great Filter. It's just one of many explanations for The Fermi Paradox.

So, on the bright side of things... finding no complex life elsewhere in the solar system and galaxy is a good sign. That means complex, intelligent life is very, very rare... leading some to believe that The Great Filter is behind us. However, if we ended up finding multicultural or intelligent life elsewhere, say, on a moon of Saturn, then life isn't that rare and The Great Filter is likely ahead of us.

Silence is golden.

If anyone is curious where I'm getting all this nonsense, check out this article. I found it very interesting.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html

(08-31-2016 11:45 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 07:37 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2016 04:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Sorry...We are the only sentient beings. There might be some kind of life..but it is not as advanced as us.

I know this is not a popular opinion..but..Just what is wrong with believing we are awesome?

I believe that there we are not the only sentient beings out there. However, I believe the odds of us ever crossing paths would be nil. Not only do you have to have a certain number of factors that need to take place for intelligent life to come into existence, there is also a timing component for it to happen too. There could have been intelligent life that flourished and died out before out earth even cooled enough to allow water to start forming on the surface, and there could be a planet out there now where life just started and it will take many millions of years before the first thinking - let alone advanced - life form develops. We'll likely be long gone from the universe when that happens.

Honest question: Why do atheists take the "I won't believe unless I see evidence" with God but not with extraterrestrial intelligent life?

Personally, I don't rule anything out.

I don't rule out the existence of God, nor do I rule out the existence of extraterrestrial life.

I can't say I believe that extraterrestrial life exists yet. I'd need solid evidence before I do. However, based off the shear magnitude of the universe (300 billion stars per galaxy times 100 billion galaxies in the universe), I tend to think that the probability of extraterrestrial life existing is greater than the probability that a God exists.

(08-31-2016 12:49 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:45 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 07:37 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2016 04:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Sorry...We are the only sentient beings. There might be some kind of life..but it is not as advanced as us.

I know this is not a popular opinion..but..Just what is wrong with believing we are awesome?

I believe that there we are not the only sentient beings out there. However, I believe the odds of us ever crossing paths would be nil. Not only do you have to have a certain number of factors that need to take place for intelligent life to come into existence, there is also a timing component for it to happen too. There could have been intelligent life that flourished and died out before out earth even cooled enough to allow water to start forming on the surface, and there could be a planet out there now where life just started and it will take many millions of years before the first thinking - let alone advanced - life form develops. We'll likely be long gone from the universe when that happens.

Honest question: Why do atheists take the "I won't believe unless I see evidence" with God but not with extraterrestrial intelligent life?

Personally, I don't rule anything out.

I don't rule out the existence of God, nor do I rule out the existence of extraterrestrial life.

I can't say I believe that extraterrestrial life exists yet. I'd need solid evidence before I do. However, based off the shear magnitude of the universe (300 billion stars per galaxy times 100 billion galaxies in the universe), I tend to think that the probability of extraterrestrial life existing is greater than the probability that a God exists.

God an extraterrestrial life are not mutually exclusive. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God only created man here on earth.

(08-31-2016 11:45 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 07:37 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2016 04:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Sorry...We are the only sentient beings. There might be some kind of life..but it is not as advanced as us.

I know this is not a popular opinion..but..Just what is wrong with believing we are awesome?

I believe that there we are not the only sentient beings out there. However, I believe the odds of us ever crossing paths would be nil. Not only do you have to have a certain number of factors that need to take place for intelligent life to come into existence, there is also a timing component for it to happen too. There could have been intelligent life that flourished and died out before out earth even cooled enough to allow water to start forming on the surface, and there could be a planet out there now where life just started and it will take many millions of years before the first thinking - let alone advanced - life form develops. We'll likely be long gone from the universe when that happens.

Honest question: Why do atheists take the "I won't believe unless I see evidence" with God but not with extraterrestrial intelligent life?

I'm not an atheist. Not sure what I am really.

(08-31-2016 12:55 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 12:49 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:45 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 07:37 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2016 04:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Sorry...We are the only sentient beings. There might be some kind of life..but it is not as advanced as us.

I know this is not a popular opinion..but..Just what is wrong with believing we are awesome?

I believe that there we are not the only sentient beings out there. However, I believe the odds of us ever crossing paths would be nil. Not only do you have to have a certain number of factors that need to take place for intelligent life to come into existence, there is also a timing component for it to happen too. There could have been intelligent life that flourished and died out before out earth even cooled enough to allow water to start forming on the surface, and there could be a planet out there now where life just started and it will take many millions of years before the first thinking - let alone advanced - life form develops. We'll likely be long gone from the universe when that happens.

Honest question: Why do atheists take the "I won't believe unless I see evidence" with God but not with extraterrestrial intelligent life?

Personally, I don't rule anything out.

I don't rule out the existence of God, nor do I rule out the existence of extraterrestrial life.

I can't say I believe that extraterrestrial life exists yet. I'd need solid evidence before I do. However, based off the shear magnitude of the universe (300 billion stars per galaxy times 100 billion galaxies in the universe), I tend to think that the probability of extraterrestrial life existing is greater than the probability that a God exists.

God an extraterrestrial life are not mutually exclusive. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God only created man here on earth.

Agreed.

(08-31-2016 11:45 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Honest question: Why do atheists take the "I won't believe unless I see evidence" with God but not with extraterrestrial intelligent life?

Science provides much more theory and evidence (however remote) for the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligent life than there is any evidence - secular, religious or scientific - of an always existing, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent omnibenevolent, all loving god of any stripe.

(08-31-2016 01:22 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:45 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Honest question: Why do atheists take the "I won't believe unless I see evidence" with God but not with extraterrestrial intelligent life?

Science provides much more theory and evidence (however remote) for the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligent life than there is any evidence - secular, religious or scientific - of an always existing, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent omnibenevolent, all loving god of any stripe.

Different thresholds. Science requires proof, God only requires Faith. That's why it's hard for science and religion (of any kind) to be viewed as equitable. The two can coexist beautifully, but you can't look at science and religion with the same eye.

I always look at it as science explaining how God did something.

(08-31-2016 01:22 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:45 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Honest question: Why do atheists take the "I won't believe unless I see evidence" with God but not with extraterrestrial intelligent life?

Science provides much more theory and evidence (however remote) for the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligent life than there is any evidence - secular, religious or scientific - of an always existing, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent omnibenevolent, all loving god of any stripe.

There is zero evidence for ET life. None.

(08-31-2016 02:10 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  There is zero evidence for ET life. None.

Agreed. That's why I said "possibility."

(08-31-2016 12:26 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 07:48 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Good point but would you care to expand on the highlighted thought. I'm taking your point to mean that we have had to already reached that stage in order to exist. Sort of like the anthropic principle.

Well, the Great Filter is just an event put forth as an answer to the Fermi Paradox. With all the billions and billions of galaxies, stars, and planets in the universe, how is it possible that we haven't been contacted by another intelligent lifeform yet. So it is hypothesized that there is an event deemed The Great Filter that makes it very difficult to go from the most basic form of life to a space faring, galactic species.

I don't know whether we've passed through The Great Filter yet, but I'm really really hoping that we have. Otherwise, the future for the human species looks pretty grim.

SO if The Great Filter is in our rear view mirrors, woohoo!!! We made it! Our species is one of the few who have gone from primordial soup to a intelligent species. The Great Filter could have been the step from amino acids, sugars, and other chemicals to the most basic form of life. Or it could have been the jump from the simple prokaryote cell to the complex eukaryote cell as I've mentioned before. Others think it could have been the jump from semi-intelligent life (like dolphins, chimps, etc) to intelligent life (ourselves, currently).

If The Great Filter is not in our rear view mirrors... We're in trouble. That means there's some sort of event out there that prevents 99.99999% of life from making it to a super advanced, galactic civilization. This event could be anything from a gamma ray burst from an exploding star somewhere in our neighborhood, to our own human nature (nuclear Apocalypse, world ending environmental disasters, etc..).

To reiterate, I don't know whether we've passed The Great Filter or not yet, let alone whether there actually is an event called The Great Filter. It's just one of many explanations for The Fermi Paradox.

So, on the bright side of things... finding no complex life elsewhere in the solar system and galaxy is a good sign. That means complex, intelligent life is very, very rare... leading some to believe that The Great Filter is behind us. However, if we ended up finding multicultural or intelligent life elsewhere, say, on a moon of Saturn, then life isn't that rare and The Great Filter is likely ahead of us.

Silence is golden.

If anyone is curious where I'm getting all this nonsense, check out this article. I found it very interesting.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html

Glad to see another WBW reader around these parts.

(08-30-2016 12:56 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  How come few ever seem to consider that we might be the most advanced civilization, even amidst a universe with other life in it? What if we are the first, and others should be afraid of us? Heck, we're pretty dangerous to ourselves!

Well, if they can get to us, they can do something we can't.

(08-31-2016 02:27 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 02:10 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  There is zero evidence for ET life. None.

Agreed. That's why I said "possibility."

Yep. There is nothing to bolster faith in ET life. The problem is that when you lay in the grass under a starry night? You really WANT us to be part of those stars. It is just human nature. We have an natural need to "understand ourselves"....Be it spiritual.. or... scientific. We are not... and will never be..content thinking WE ARE ALONE.

(08-31-2016 08:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 02:27 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 02:10 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  There is zero evidence for ET life. None.

Agreed. That's why I said "possibility."

Yep. There is nothing to bolster faith in ET life. The problem is that when you lay in the grass under a starry night? You really WANT us to be part of those stars. It is just human nature. We have an natural need to "understand ourselves"....Be it spiritual.. or... scientific. We are not... and will never be..content thinking WE ARE ALONE.

The answers aren't on another planet.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

(08-31-2016 08:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 08:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 02:27 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 02:10 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  There is zero evidence for ET life. None.

Agreed. That's why I said "possibility."

Yep. There is nothing to bolster faith in ET life. The problem is that when you lay in the grass under a starry night? You really WANT us to be part of those stars. It is just human nature. We have an natural need to "understand ourselves"....Be it spiritual.. or... scientific. We are not... and will never be..content thinking WE ARE ALONE.

The answers aren't on another planet.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

I agree.