I'm not sure how much of the Catholic vote would be tied directly to Hispanics. My guess is around 30 percent of the Catholics voting in 2012 were Catholic, so maybe the majority of the shortfall is due to that. However, as a Catholic myself I've heard of the issues of Catholic immigrants when dealing with earlier Europeans already in the country during the early 20th century.

I'm not saying Trump is evil when it comes to immigration, because I see his message as primarily a security issue vs a loss of cultural identity issue. However, I think it could be a big part of the problem he has with connecting to immigrants.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...c-problem/

Quote:As the Religion News Services’s John Gehring recently posited, it could also have something to do with Trump’s immigration policies:

Part of Catholics’ DNA is an appreciation for how Irish and other immigrants toiled and thrived in the shadow of a suspicious, fiercely anti-Catholic culture dominated by white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. ...

When Trump calls for a religious test for Muslims entering the country; questions the faith of Hillary Clinton, President Obama and Mitt Romney; and demonizes undocumented immigrants as “rapists,” it’s a reminder of the ugly nativism that Catholics once faced.

While this contemporary strain of old xenophobia is particularly felt by Latinos who increasingly are the face of the Catholic Church in the United States, many white Catholics surely take pride in family stories of grandparents and great-grandparents who were strangers in a new land. Trump has dug himself a deep hole he is unlikely to climb out of with these voters.

But whatever the cause, Trump’s struggles among Catholics remains one of the really undersold story lines of the 2016 election.

Or you could look at it as he has made up ground in the past month, cutting his deficit by 18%.

Catholics don't bother as a bloc. This story is ridiculous. Catholicism is dominant in NJ, NY, and New England and pretty sparse in the South and West.

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Catholics vote Democratic any way.

(08-29-2016 03:33 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Catholics vote Democratic any way.

not really. Its more regional than anything.

I went to catholic school my elementary through high school (in GA) and the were pretty much followed the regional split. IE mostly 65% Conservative.

(08-29-2016 03:30 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Catholics don't bother as a bloc. This story is ridiculous. Catholicism is dominant in NJ, NY, and New England and pretty sparse in the South and West.

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can you please just admit you rarely know what you are talking about?

For the first time in history, 2012 I think, the majority of Catholics in the House are Republican. There are 15 Dem Catholics in the Senate and 11 GOP Catholic. The vast majority of Catholics really don't think about poor treatment a couple hundred years
ago and compare that to a muslim test today. It just does not resonate. Of course the newer Mexican catholics are majority Dem, but those who have Americans for generations that is a different story. I have 7 Aunts and Uncles and both sides of my family, 14 total, and more cousins than I can count. Only 1 of those families are strict Dem voters. Mom's side is German and Dad's side is Irish.

Since the 60s the Catholic vote has basically followed the overall country as a whole.

Catholics are too diverse to be lumped together accurately.

I'm Catholic, white, educated, decent earner, live in the Deep South, and am voting Trump.

I buck most of the Catholic stereotypes and there are literally dozens of us.

(08-29-2016 03:49 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 03:30 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Catholics don't bother as a bloc. This story is ridiculous. Catholicism is dominant in NJ, NY, and New England and pretty sparse in the South and West.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

can you please just admit you rarely know what you are talking about?

He is right in the fact that they tend to follow voting trends.

Its not the black vote which overwhelmingly votes democratic.

so as a bloc they are very diverse.

(08-29-2016 03:49 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 03:30 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Catholics don't bother as a bloc. This story is ridiculous. Catholicism is dominant in NJ, NY, and New England and pretty sparse in the South and West.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

can you please just admit you rarely know what you are talking about?

County breakdown of 2012 presidential election. Probably not exactly the correlation you were hoping for john

(08-29-2016 03:33 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Catholics vote Democratic any way.

Unless they're on the Supreme Court.

(08-29-2016 03:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Catholics are too diverse to be lumped together accurately.

I'm Catholic, white, educated, decent earner, live in the Deep South, and am voting Trump.

I buck most of the Catholic stereotypes and there are literally dozens of us.

Me too. All of the people I know from church are voting for Trump. Not that they would not like a better candidate, but there is absolutely no way anyone who calls themselves Catholic and understands what their faith truly teaches could ever vote for Hiliary.

Many of those who call themselves 'catholics', especially in the north and out west, are similar to jewish people who identify as Jewish but who do not really practice their faith, or who have artificially introduced 'reforms' that were not part of the teaching. The term 'cafeteria-catholics' also comes to mind, referring to those who pick and choose what they do and do not wish to follow like a menu at a cafetria. Many of those couldn't even plausibly tell you the most basic ideas of the faith they purport to have. They just want a place to have nice wedding photos. They may call themselves catholic or jewish when answering a survey, but their behavior makes them virtual atheists.

As with "black people", "hispanic people" etc... that the media tries to characterize as one monolithic block, there are varieties that belie easy and incorrect classification. I know a lot of black people who are for Trump, but as that is against the media narrative, they do not receive acknowledgement or valid consideration. Hiliary thinks they will vote for her because of their skin color, and perhaps many will, but that is a racist idea and Hiliary is a racist woman who only sees people for what they look like instead of for who they are.

(08-29-2016 03:49 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 03:30 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Catholics don't bother as a bloc. This story is ridiculous. Catholicism is dominant in NJ, NY, and New England and pretty sparse in the South and West.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

can you please just admit you rarely know what you are talking about?

Lol, what?

Sent from my VS980 4G using CSNbbs mobile app

(08-29-2016 03:12 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I'm not sure how much of the Catholic vote would be tied directly to Hispanics. My guess is around 30 percent of the Catholics voting in 2012 were Catholic, so maybe the majority of the shortfall is due to that. However, as a Catholic myself I've heard of the issues of Catholic immigrants when dealing with earlier Europeans already in the country during the early 20th century.

I'm not saying Trump is evil when it comes to immigration, because I see his message as primarily a security issue vs a loss of cultural identity issue. However, I think it could be a big part of the problem he has with connecting to immigrants.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...c-problem/

Quote:As the Religion News Services’s John Gehring recently posited, it could also have something to do with Trump’s immigration policies:

Part of Catholics’ DNA is an appreciation for how Irish and other immigrants toiled and thrived in the shadow of a suspicious, fiercely anti-Catholic culture dominated by white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. ...

When Trump calls for a religious test for Muslims entering the country; questions the faith of Hillary Clinton, President Obama and Mitt Romney; and demonizes undocumented immigrants as “rapists,” it’s a reminder of the ugly nativism that Catholics once faced.

While this contemporary strain of old xenophobia is particularly felt by Latinos who increasingly are the face of the Catholic Church in the United States, many white Catholics surely take pride in family stories of grandparents and great-grandparents who were strangers in a new land. Trump has dug himself a deep hole he is unlikely to climb out of with these voters.

But whatever the cause, Trump’s struggles among Catholics remains one of the really undersold story lines of the 2016 election.

The writer is really stretching to try and come to some ind of a conclusion. Catholics aren't homogenous. We don't vote or think alike.

Conservative Practicing Catholics will likely vote Trump or stay home. For conservative Catholics, the issue of abortion being a non-negotiable and we all know HRC walks lock step with PP.

Liberal, Cafeteria, Non-practicing and/or SJW Catholics will likely vote for HRC. They are will to make a deal with the devil on abortion.

This Irish Practicing Catholic will be voting for Trump. Not my first choice but better than HRC.

With regard to feeling any commonality for illegals due to supposed discrimination. They aren't being discriminated against. They broke our law coming here. And while I have compassion for their plight as where they left is likely a $hithole, they are still lawbreakers/criminals.

My ancestors came over with the famine LEGALLY. My ancestors toiled in poverty and worked their way up from dirt poor and barely educated when they arrived to college educated including doctors, lawyers, engineers, in 5 generations. I am certain they experienced discrimination in housing and jobs but endeavored to make a better life.

Hillary doing poorly with those who have a brain....

(08-29-2016 03:33 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Catholics vote Democratic any way.

Um. No. Conservative Catholics will not vote for HRC.

Anecdotally my immediate and extended family is catholic. Out of 40+ only 2 will vote for HRC, both of them are in academia.

(08-29-2016 05:06 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 03:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Catholics are too diverse to be lumped together accurately.

I'm Catholic, white, educated, decent earner, live in the Deep South, and am voting Trump.

I buck most of the Catholic stereotypes and there are literally dozens of us.

Me too. All of the people I know from church are voting for Trump. Not that they would not like a better candidate, but there is absolutely no way anyone who calls themselves Catholic and understands what their faith truly teaches could ever vote for Hiliary.

Many of those who call themselves 'catholics', especially in the north and out west, are similar to jewish people who identify as Jewish but who do not really practice their faith, or who have artificially introduced 'reforms' that were not part of the teaching. The term 'cafeteria-catholics' also comes to mind, referring to those who pick and choose what they do and do not wish to follow like a menu at a cafetria. Many of those couldn't even plausibly tell you the most basic ideas of the faith they purport to have. They just want a place to have nice wedding photos. They may call themselves catholic or jewish when answering a survey, but their behavior makes them virtual atheists.

As with "black people", "hispanic people" etc... that the media tries to characterize as one monolithic block, there are varieties that belie easy and incorrect classification. I know a lot of black people who are for Trump, but as that is against the media narrative, they do not receive acknowledgement or valid consideration. Hiliary thinks they will vote for her because of their skin color, and perhaps many will, but that is a racist idea and Hiliary is a racist woman who only sees people for what they look like instead of for who they are.

Agree completely.

(08-29-2016 06:35 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Hillary doing poorly with those who have a brain....

Do you really want to see the poll breakdowns by college degreed persons?

I think that for many Catholics, including observant ones, there's a couple of things going on. I think that the Catholic cultural issues are probably pretty minor, but here goes....

1) The nativism does remind some Catholics about the anti-Catholic bias that they or their parents/grandparents might have faced.

2) There's a huge disparity of thought even among observant Catholics. Neither DJT nor HRC would get the endorsement of Pope Francis.

3) Even for those Catholics that follow the few "orthodox" Catholic bishops (the political ones), its a mixed bag. HRC supports a woman's right to choose and doesn't endorse or ignore homophobia. DJT's foreign and immigration policy could cause the Catholic Church big problems and place Catholics in many areas (including the Middle East) in big danger.

4) I think that the Catholic concept of Pride also plays into it. Catholics place a higher emphasis on pride being a sin than other religions. And DJT screams "pride". In the most 'in your face' and vulgar way imaginable.

But I suspect that the "Catholic vote" probably is mostly driven by larger demographic trends. Catholics still tend to be more urban, more Eastern, more ethnic, more immigrant, etc., than Protestants. Is it the religion or the other factors at play here? My guess is that its mostly demographics.

(08-29-2016 05:06 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(08-29-2016 03:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Catholics are too diverse to be lumped together accurately.

I'm Catholic, white, educated, decent earner, live in the Deep South, and am voting Trump.

I buck most of the Catholic stereotypes and there are literally dozens of us.

Me too. All of the people I know from church are voting for Trump. Not that they would not like a better candidate, but there is absolutely no way anyone who calls themselves Catholic and understands what their faith truly teaches could ever vote for Hiliary.

Many of those who call themselves 'catholics', especially in the north and out west, are similar to jewish people who identify as Jewish but who do not really practice their faith, or who have artificially introduced 'reforms' that were not part of the teaching. The term 'cafeteria-catholics' also comes to mind, referring to those who pick and choose what they do and do not wish to follow like a menu at a cafetria. Many of those couldn't even plausibly tell you the most basic ideas of the faith they purport to have. They just want a place to have nice wedding photos. They may call themselves catholic or jewish when answering a survey, but their behavior makes them virtual atheists.

As with "black people", "hispanic people" etc... that the media tries to characterize as one monolithic block, there are varieties that belie easy and incorrect classification. I know a lot of black people who are for Trump, but as that is against the media narrative, they do not receive acknowledgement or valid consideration. Hiliary thinks they will vote for her because of their skin color, and perhaps many will, but that is a racist idea and Hiliary is a racist woman who only sees people for what they look like instead of for who they are.

Same way that Many of Us, like Myself that are Union Members are voting for Trump even though the National chapter will be begging members to vote for Hillary. Not going to happen. Team over country not in play .