(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

I agree the list should be expanded...as long as they are picture IDs.

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

I think the only one that should be acceptable is a US passport, now days, states are giving driver's licenses to non-citizens.

(08-26-2016 01:56 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

I think the only one that should be acceptable is a US passport, now days, states are giving driver's licenses to non-citizens.

No problem with me...but...the expense and long wait to obtain one would need addressing.

(08-26-2016 01:56 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  I think the only one that should be acceptable is a US passport, now days, states are giving driver's licenses to non-citizens.

But the ID is used to verify you are the person on their registration list... you aren't using it to register, so just because a non-citizen has an ID doesn't mean they'd be able to vote.

(08-26-2016 12:43 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 12:23 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 11:46 AM)john01992 Wrote:  100% of people who fully understand the issue do not support them. it's easy to mislead people on a talking point that sounds right at first glance, but not when you dig and really look at all the talking points for and against. there's a reason judges have struck them down and in no way should popular vote overturn a civil rights victory.

Translation, anyone who disagrees with me is a stupid, uneducated, racist, sexist, homophobe.

This falls right in line with John believing himself to be brilliant and him knowing everything while everyone else are just stooges..........just ask him.

Really? I never read his posts, just a lot of Jibber-Jabber. I'd advise everyone to do the same.

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

Out of that list the only one I would consider acceptable would be the public assistance ID.

Neither the student ID nor the government employee ID require residence information, and both are easily forged because the majority of them are made by commonly available computer programs and your standard color printer. I don't know of any of our firehouses that didn't have a pirated copy of the program used to make our governmental IDs, and we already had the lamination machines in place for other purposes. We all had multiple copies that we kept in our wallets, in our turnout gear, in our vehicles, etc. All it took was a couple people pitching in to go to Office Depot for a box of the alligator clips. The only versions of the employee ID we couldn't duplicate were those for our E911 personnel and that's only because they attached the RFID chips they needed to access their communications center to the back of their IDs, and at one time one of our guys was working on getting the equipment to forge those as well.

(08-26-2016 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

Out of that list the only one I would consider acceptable would be the public assistance ID.

Neither the student ID nor the government employee ID require residence information, and both are easily forged because the majority of them are made by commonly available computer programs and your standard color printer. I don't know of any of our firehouses that didn't have a pirated copy of the program used to make our governmental IDs, and we already had the lamination machines in place for other purposes. We all had multiple copies that we kept in our wallets, in our turnout gear, in our vehicles, etc. All it took was a couple people pitching in to go to Office Depot for a box of the alligator clips. The only versions of the employee ID we couldn't duplicate were those for our E911 personnel and that's only because they attached the RFID chips they needed to access their communications center to the back of their IDs, and at one time one of our guys was working on getting the equipment to forge those as well.

Kaplony you are wrong. The GOP does not allow Student ID's because they hate young people. All those facts you provided are irrelevant.

(08-26-2016 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

Out of that list the only one I would consider acceptable would be the public assistance ID.

Neither the student ID nor the government employee ID require residence information, and both are easily forged because the majority of them are made by commonly available computer programs and your standard color printer. I don't know of any of our firehouses that didn't have a pirated copy of the program used to make our governmental IDs, and we already had the lamination machines in place for other purposes. We all had multiple copies that we kept in our wallets, in our turnout gear, in our vehicles, etc. All it took was a couple people pitching in to go to Office Depot for a box of the alligator clips. The only versions of the employee ID we couldn't duplicate were those for our E911 personnel and that's only because they attached the RFID chips they needed to access their communications center to the back of their IDs, and at one time one of our guys was working on getting the equipment to forge those as well.

Kaplony you are wrong. The GOP does not allow Student ID's because they hate young people. All those facts you provided are irrelevant.

I'd suggest in the future that you get your facts from somewhere besides johnnyzero.

kap ==> please don't pretend that drivers licenses are not the most commonly forged form of photo IDs.

hammy ==> I like ya but you tend to go straight down the looney train every once in a while with this thread being a prime example. stop changing the definitions of terms and omitting basic facts. three major court cases, the ACLU, and 20% of the population. so trying to imply it is only me saying it is flat out wrong. trying to imply no one of note says there is a problem is flat out wrong. you do not have the right to change the definition of key terms voter suppression and voter disenfranchisement are exactly what the term means nothing more, nothing less. they are visible in voter ID laws just like they were visible in literacy tests and poll taxes. only difference is their proponents use different talking points. "it's just a tax nothing to see here" vs "it's only to prevent voter fraud nothing to see here"

(08-26-2016 01:56 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

I think the only one that should be acceptable is a US passport, now days, states are giving driver's licenses to non-citizens.

so you want to implement a de facto $100 poll tax and require a form of ID only 36% of americans have.

and the dummies of the forum agree with you on this position

(08-26-2016 02:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  kap ==> please don't pretend that drivers licenses are not the most commonly forged form of photo IDs.

They are also the most easily detectable because of the built in forgery protections like holograms, watermarks, etc. If a doorman at a bar in Clinton,SC sitting on a stool and using a flashlight to look at them can determine within seconds that a DL is fake then a trained poll worker in a well lit polling location can do a far better job.


There are absolutely no forgery protections built into the vast majority of employee and/or school IDs.

(08-26-2016 02:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

Out of that list the only one I would consider acceptable would be the public assistance ID.

Neither the student ID nor the government employee ID require residence information, and both are easily forged because the majority of them are made by commonly available computer programs and your standard color printer. I don't know of any of our firehouses that didn't have a pirated copy of the program used to make our governmental IDs, and we already had the lamination machines in place for other purposes. We all had multiple copies that we kept in our wallets, in our turnout gear, in our vehicles, etc. All it took was a couple people pitching in to go to Office Depot for a box of the alligator clips. The only versions of the employee ID we couldn't duplicate were those for our E911 personnel and that's only because they attached the RFID chips they needed to access their communications center to the back of their IDs, and at one time one of our guys was working on getting the equipment to forge those as well.

Kaplony you are wrong. The GOP does not allow Student ID's because they hate young people. All those facts you provided are irrelevant.

I'd suggest in the future that you get your facts from somewhere besides johnnyzero.

well you hate the truth. in a points style system which is how I had to provide id for a drivers license a student ID would have worked if I could provide other forms.

not only did the GOP opt for photo id which only a couple first world countries use, they opted for the strictest system possible (ie not a points system) which makes an already asinine proposal batshit crazy.

(08-26-2016 02:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

Out of that list the only one I would consider acceptable would be the public assistance ID.

Neither the student ID nor the government employee ID require residence information, and both are easily forged because the majority of them are made by commonly available computer programs and your standard color printer. I don't know of any of our firehouses that didn't have a pirated copy of the program used to make our governmental IDs, and we already had the lamination machines in place for other purposes. We all had multiple copies that we kept in our wallets, in our turnout gear, in our vehicles, etc. All it took was a couple people pitching in to go to Office Depot for a box of the alligator clips. The only versions of the employee ID we couldn't duplicate were those for our E911 personnel and that's only because they attached the RFID chips they needed to access their communications center to the back of their IDs, and at one time one of our guys was working on getting the equipment to forge those as well.

Kaplony you are wrong. The GOP does not allow Student ID's because they hate young people. All those facts you provided are irrelevant.

I'd suggest in the future that you get your facts from somewhere besides johnnyzero.

well you hate the truth. in a points style system which is how I had to provide id for a drivers license a student ID would have worked if I could provide other forms.

not only did the GOP opt for photo id which only a couple first world countries use, they opted for the strictest system possible (ie not a points system) which makes an already asinine proposal batshit crazy.

in NC you can use a student ID along with your out of state driver's license to get an voter ID.

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.



Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

GREAT... how does this STILL not have us arguing over what is 'legitimate'?

School IDs don't generally meet the security requirements of other IDs and many don't contain an address which would verify that you were voting in the right place. The school ID is a serious issue because while students ARE at school during the election, that isn't their permanent address. They don't generally register their vehicles in those counties or many of the specific reasons why you're supposed to vote in only one precinct... or sometimes state.

Most government employee IDs similarly don't have addresses associated with them... and of course you could still be here on a work visa

I can't even find a definition of a 'Public Assistance Id'.

None of those IDs are actually excluded... any more than a 'country club ID' is excluded. They list what is acceptable, and you've simply chosen IDs whose names suggest that they will impact minorities more than others.... ignoring that most poor whites vote Republican, and there are more of them than there are poor minorities.

PERHAPS the issue is as simple as things like being convicted felons aren't, or shouldn't be 'tied' to your employee ID or benefits ID?? A convicted felon can still get SNAP. Drivers licenses, State IDs, Gun licenses and passports are already tied into 'criminal' background checks because the police already use them for such.

Having said that, the obvious solution is to bring such an ID up to the standards of a license.... where your address and thus voting precinct can be identified and verified, as can your legal eligibility to vote.

This aint that hard, no matter how hard you guys want to try and make it sound so.

It's whack-a-mole because despite knowing and admitting that it's not unpopular, you really don't want it for your OWN personal reasons *the you being generic democrats.,.. not any poster in particular


90+% of people already have licenses or state IDs (I've actually heard over 95%, but I digress). I'd make that the only acceptable ID. Anything else gets to vote provisionally, and you have 30 days to use those other IDs you have to get a state ID or license... or to otherwise provide other verification that you are who you say you are and voted once in the right place. All of this arguing can be better spent making sure people can accomplish that.... because THEN, you aren't doing the same damn thing 2 years later

(08-26-2016 02:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

Out of that list the only one I would consider acceptable would be the public assistance ID.

Neither the student ID nor the government employee ID require residence information, and both are easily forged because the majority of them are made by commonly available computer programs and your standard color printer. I don't know of any of our firehouses that didn't have a pirated copy of the program used to make our governmental IDs, and we already had the lamination machines in place for other purposes. We all had multiple copies that we kept in our wallets, in our turnout gear, in our vehicles, etc. All it took was a couple people pitching in to go to Office Depot for a box of the alligator clips. The only versions of the employee ID we couldn't duplicate were those for our E911 personnel and that's only because they attached the RFID chips they needed to access their communications center to the back of their IDs, and at one time one of our guys was working on getting the equipment to forge those as well.

Kaplony you are wrong. The GOP does not allow Student ID's because they hate young people. All those facts you provided are irrelevant.

I'd suggest in the future that you get your facts from somewhere besides johnnyzero.

well you hate the truth. in a points style system which is how I had to provide id for a drivers license a student ID would have worked if I could provide other forms.

not only did the GOP opt for photo id which only a couple first world countries use, they opted for the strictest system possible (ie not a points system) which makes an already asinine proposal batshit crazy.

You wouldn't know the truth if it reached up and thumped your yet to drop nutsack.

There's a movie reference coming to mind.

(08-26-2016 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:56 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

I think the only one that should be acceptable is a US passport, now days, states are giving driver's licenses to non-citizens.

so you want to implement a de facto $100 poll tax and require a form of ID only 36% of americans have.

and the dummies of the forum agree with you on this position

why not? the democrats did it with oblundercare...

and its actually closer to 50%.

(08-26-2016 12:32 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 11:52 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 11:46 AM)john01992 Wrote:  100% of people who fully understand the issue do not support them. it's easy to mislead people on a talking point that sounds right at first glance, but not when you dig and really look at all the talking points for and against. there's a reason judges have struck them down and in no way should popular vote overturn a civil rights victory.

Source this.

Still waiting...

Still waiting...

(08-26-2016 03:04 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:56 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:47 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 01:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The issue isn't valid I.D., The issue is what is considered valid.

Exactly.

It's common sense that you should have to show an ID to vote. So, most people, including myself, have no problem with that.

But look at the NC Voter ID law and all the other stuff they throw into it:

Early voting restrictions, Same Day Registration restrictions, out-of-precinct voting restrictions... all clearly targeting people who typically vote for the democrats.

Then look at the IDs themselves:

Acceptable ID - Drivers License, US Passport, Military ID
NOT Acceptable - Student ID, Government Employee ID, Public Assistance ID

The NOT Acceptable category would be held mainly by people who often vote democratic... Coincidence? Yeah, right.

IMO ID SHOULD BE REQUIRED, but it really should include all legitimate IDs.

I think the only one that should be acceptable is a US passport, now days, states are giving driver's licenses to non-citizens.

so you want to implement a de facto $100 poll tax and require a form of ID only 36% of americans have.

and the dummies of the forum agree with you on this position

why not? the democrats did it with oblundercare...

and its actually closer to 50%.

but healthcare is not a constitutional right????? is that the right answer??

kap: you are once again talking out of your ***. unlike you I have actually experienced the college bar life in the last couple years and I can tell you with full confidence is fake IDs for licenses is rampant and bars are struggling to stop it. those electronic security measures are easily beaten and if anything they make it harder for bouncers because they over rely on their scanners and defer to the beep rather than looking more at the physical makeup. (false sense of security). but you miss the big point. a lot of the time it's someone using an id that isn't theres but looks similar enough that they get away with it.

the scanners at the polls option sounds like something that is never going to happen and there is no way you can argue poll workers have more experience than bars who work 365 days a year and have a liquor license on the line.

UTSA: I would never in a million years hold any other situation where you need an id to the standards of voting where it is such a critical right to protect and needs to be free of all disenfranchisement and attempts to discourage voting.

200: till hell freezes over