(08-30-2016 01:09 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 10:17 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 01:55 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  So why do you use the word "all-time" then, EvilVodka? Why not just say "10 best programs today"? That's what you are really arguing when you want to just emphasize the last 30 years.

As a PSU fan, we've been a top 20 team if you're only looking at the past 10 years. Move back to a 20 year lens, and we've only been a top 15 program. But if you go back to the past fifty years, we're easily a top 8 team. And if you go all the way back, then we land about where our overall win total says we land...about #10. It all matters about how many years you want to include...but you can't call it "all-time" if you aren't going to go back to 1896 or whatever. :)

So who do you want to put Penn State ahead of in my rankings? I'd give the nod and put them ahead of LSU

Probably not ahead of Nebraska....what about ahead of Florida? I don't think so...

I'll say Penn State is one of the hardest schools to gauge in these rankings. I don't think I've seen a school with so many undefeated seasons and no share of a National Championship. How many NCs does Penn State have with a playoff? Do they win in '94? That's just sadly part of the dumbth of the sport

What I don't see from Penn State is a LEGENDARY team....Nebraska has 1995, Texas has 2005...Does Penn State have that team that really left a mark on the college football landscape?

I don't see Big 10 dominance either. Nebraska used to roll through the Big 8. Spurrier had the Gators mauling other SEC teams. Penn State has been in the Big 10 for a little while now....how are they faring?

In 23 seasons in the B1G, Penn State has won 112 league games. That puts them fourth in the conference during that period, behind Ohio State (147), Michigan (121) and Wisconsin (115). That's not bad company. Not dominant, but not bad.

That factoid sounds great, until you realize that 112 wins in 23 seasons is an average of 4.87 wins per season only.

Just shows how great Ohio St has been last 23 years quite frankly...

How in the world can Michigan, the all time leader in wins, and #2 in all time winning percentage, with a claimed 11 National Championships not be in the top ten? That's absurd. I'll admit only one was in the modern era, but NCs before the BCS were fake anyway. That's not how schools measured themselves, they played for big Bowl wins. Michigan has 42 Big Ten championships, to 35 for OSU.

Historical accomplishments should be valued much more in an analysis of college football (compared to college basketball). There is much less movement in "tiers" of success in the sport. Notre Dame, for example, could go 6-6 for the next decade and still would be almost just as nationally important. The same isn't true in basketball. If Coach K were to retire and Duke was an NIT level team for the next decade, I don't think they would matter as much. I mean UCLA is arguably the best college basketball program of all time and is hardly relevant anymore.

(08-30-2016 01:42 PM)HuskyHawk Wrote:  How in the world can Michigan, the all time leader in wins, and #2 in all time winning percentage, with a claimed 11 National Championships not be in the top ten? That's absurd. I'll admit only one was in the modern era, but NCs before the BCS were fake anyway. That's not how schools measured themselves, they played for big Bowl wins. Michigan has 42 Big Ten championships, to 35 for OSU.

FSU and Miami have the same # or more NCs (AP/BCS/CP), have better teams, have better dynasties, and have dominated the sport more than Michigan.

Michigan has longevity in winning (# of victories, conference titles)...I think they had a dynasty in the 1900s

Miami 2001...possibly one of the best teams EVER. FSU 1999 went wire to wire. Both have incredible dynasties

I think FSU and Miami have more substance in their shorter period of winning than Michigan does in their 100+ years of playing football

(08-30-2016 01:52 PM)Tech Savy Wrote:  Historical accomplishments should be valued much more in an analysis of college football (compared to college basketball). There is much less movement in "tiers" of success in the sport. Notre Dame, for example, could go 6-6 for the next decade and still would be almost just as nationally important. The same isn't true in basketball. If Coach K were to retire and Duke was an NIT level team for the next decade, I don't think they would matter as much. I mean UCLA is arguably the best college basketball program of all time and is hardly relevant anymore.

I'm no college basketball aficionado, but even I know what UCLA did as a DYNASTY in college basketball is possibly the greatest run in ANY sport....

they were winning tournaments right?

College football has been handing out pretend championships for decades

Meeeechigan should be higher

(08-30-2016 01:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(08-30-2016 01:09 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 10:17 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 01:55 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  So why do you use the word "all-time" then, EvilVodka? Why not just say "10 best programs today"? That's what you are really arguing when you want to just emphasize the last 30 years.

As a PSU fan, we've been a top 20 team if you're only looking at the past 10 years. Move back to a 20 year lens, and we've only been a top 15 program. But if you go back to the past fifty years, we're easily a top 8 team. And if you go all the way back, then we land about where our overall win total says we land...about #10. It all matters about how many years you want to include...but you can't call it "all-time" if you aren't going to go back to 1896 or whatever. :)

So who do you want to put Penn State ahead of in my rankings? I'd give the nod and put them ahead of LSU

Probably not ahead of Nebraska....what about ahead of Florida? I don't think so...

I'll say Penn State is one of the hardest schools to gauge in these rankings. I don't think I've seen a school with so many undefeated seasons and no share of a National Championship. How many NCs does Penn State have with a playoff? Do they win in '94? That's just sadly part of the dumbth of the sport

What I don't see from Penn State is a LEGENDARY team....Nebraska has 1995, Texas has 2005...Does Penn State have that team that really left a mark on the college football landscape?

I don't see Big 10 dominance either. Nebraska used to roll through the Big 8. Spurrier had the Gators mauling other SEC teams. Penn State has been in the Big 10 for a little while now....how are they faring?

In 23 seasons in the B1G, Penn State has won 112 league games. That puts them fourth in the conference during that period, behind Ohio State (147), Michigan (121) and Wisconsin (115). That's not bad company. Not dominant, but not bad.

That factoid sounds great, until you realize that 112 wins in 23 seasons is an average of 4.87 wins per season only.

Just shows how great Ohio St has been last 23 years quite frankly...

For Penn State, 112 wins translates to 61%. Ohio State won 80% of their league games during that time. Florida State was tops in the ACC for those 23 years (149 wins, 81%). Alabama won 122 games (67%) but they weren't tops in the SEC. That honor goes to Florida (139, 76%).

(08-25-2016 04:24 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I'll buy.

I think this ranking skews heavily towards the last 30 years.

It's tricky...Miami's history is basically confined to 1983-02 but they easily could have won 10 titles, let alone the 5 they actually won.

FWIW, these are the top 15 winning percentages for P5 schools since 1980 (roughly the time when FBS schools had fully adjusted their schedules after the D-I split in 1978). AP NC's are in parentheses.

Florida St.......78 (3)
Ohio State......77 (2)
Nebraska........77 (2)
Miami............74 (5)
Oklahoma......73 (2)
Florida...........73 (3)
Alabama........73 (5)
Georgia.........72 (1)
Michigan........71 (1)
Penn State.....70 (2)
USC..............69 (2)
Clemson........68 (1)
Auburn..........68 (1)
Texas............68 (1)
Tennessee......68 (1)

Draw your own conclusions.

(08-25-2016 04:23 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  blueblood traditional nonsense be damned, it's time to give the Florida schools their due

These are the real top 10 programs of ALL TIME right here:

1. Alabama
The Crimson Tide rule college football...16 Nattys, multiple dynasties, multiple heisman winners, some of the best defenses ever. Hard to argue with this one.

2. Oklahoma
Oklahoma keeps churning out good teams, and keeps challenging to at least be in the race every year. They've got a ton of championships, and have a solid program.

3. Notre Dame
They definitely have the name, and the championships...the legends and the myths. They don't have the rings lately though....at least not since '88. Might have won one in '93 with a playoff...who knows. In the past 15 years, they get demolished a lot on the big stage

4. USC
They've also got tons of championships, heisman winners, and a nice dynasty from the 2000s. They are RBs and Rose Bowl Lore...

5. Ohio State
They've got the successful past from Big 10 days, and have been challenging the college football world pretty strong since '96...2 Nattys in the last 15 years and first Playoff National Championship as well

6. FSU
Texas? Nebraska? Penn State? Michigan?
Screw that...FSU now has 3 Championships, multiple Heisman winners. The 2013 team broke all sorts of records, the 1999 team went Wire to Wire in the AP Poll, and the '93 team was absolutely loaded with Heisman winner Charlie Ward. Even in their mediocre period in the 2000s, they really weren't having losing seasons. They've pretty much been going strong since Bowden took over in '76. They are a football powerhouse.

7. Miami
Five National Championships, possibly the best team ever (2001), the school that brought swagger and speed to the game. Miami has flat out embarrassed prominent schools in the college football world.

8. Florida
Three National Championships, a dominant SEC dynasty in the 90s, Florida has definitely earned their spot as one of the best college football schools out there.

9. LSU
This might be a surprise to some people, but they've got some decent history with the '59 team, and since '01, they've been one of the top teams in the country, winning 2 National Championships and playing for one more. That 2011 team had possibly the greatest regular season ever.

10. Nebraska
I'll give Nebraska the nod over Michigan here....Nebraska has 5 National Championships, with a dynasty in the 90s, and a legendary coach in Tom Osborne. They've fallen off as of late though.

Here's how I see it as a Georgia fan:

1. Alabama- no argument there.
2. Notre Dame- say what you will about the Irish, but they have earned their tradition and championships.
3. Oklahoma- counting the Sooners out of the mix is never wise, IMO.
4. Ohio State it's taken them awhile, but the Buckeyes are reverting to the true powerhouse brand they were in the past.
5.USC they've fallen on hard times, but give them the right coach with the right attitude, and they will be back.
6.Miami see USC. Miami used to revel in thuggery, but too many run-ins with the NCAA have forcibly changed the culture down in south Florida. Butch Davis showed Miami a new way to get its swagger back, and I believe Mark Richt will take a page or two out of Davis' book in bringing back the 'Canes once again.
7.Florida State Like them or hate them, the 'Noles are a legit national brand. I would put them as something as a cross between the old Miami Hurricanes and the Alabama Crimson Tide.
8. Penn State Just because Joe Paterno didn't make all the right calls that a coach needs to make doesn't make him a horrible coach. Yes, he made horrible mistakes, and deserved to lose his job. But you cannot ignore his legacy either.
9.Michigan Bo Schembechler was a man who was wise beyond his years. He preferred to let Woody Hayes do all the showboating and catch the national headlines, while he and his team quietly won Big Ten conference championships. He set the standard for all Michigan coaches and was a revered competitor, IMO. Michigan deserves to be ranked among the blue bloods.
10. LSU Not too sure what Les Miles has going on down on the Bayou (magic? voodoo?), but whatever it is, it is definitely working for him. Les Miles has definitely brought back the magic to LSU which had been gone for quite a while.

Honorable mention:
11. Nebraska: Dr. Tom Osborne definitely knew how to build competitive teams using offensive strategies that most coaches gave up on as "outdated."
12.Florida- No denying that Steve Spurrier definitely built a powerhouse at UF. The Gators used to be happy with just about any bowl, but now expect nothing less than conference championships. Quite a turnaround.