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West Virginia's chance to escape
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #21
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 12:28 AM)texasorange Wrote:  
(08-27-2016 10:21 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-27-2016 09:57 AM)CyclonePower Wrote:  
(08-27-2016 08:39 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Academics matter in the ACC, but we needed better football at the time. UConn will never be good in football and offers only a barren recruiting ground. The ACC didn't need help in basketball - we already have that in spades. I also heard FSU and Clemson were considering leaving if UConn were added. Louisville had an athletic budget on par with FSU before they joined the ACC. The ACC lost a bankrupt athletic department and gained one of the most healthy and profitable athletic departments in the nation. It was a different direction to be sure, but they were the right choice.

(08-25-2016 09:57 PM)CyclonePower Wrote:  They didn't want to add WVU because of academics and then a year later add Louisville. It's a shame the big 12 could've grabbed Cincy and Louisville but waited for that moment to pass. Now we have a school out on an island and no amazing candidates near them(besides maybe Cincy).

Now I'm just hoping the big 12 dies peacefully and most of the schools find a new good home.

True but we aren't talking about UConn. I was talking about WVU.

Let's be brutally fair here.

West Virginia Pluses:

Above average or better most years in football and basketball.

Great fan support.

Academics are not a big issue when one takes into account their mission within their state.

Name recognition is strong.

West Virginia Minuses:

Minor sports line up deficient by SEC standards in the kinds of minor sport offered and the number of minor sports fielded. Baseball quality a deficit.

Fan behavior (although by a minority of their fans) is way outside the norms of SEC venues.

Academics are a big issue for a conference looking to enhance its academic standing.

Travel ease, distance, and venue size and amenities are issues.


Now add these to a relatively small market and their ability now to earn the SEC their annual payout of 40 million (which is what it will be revised to later this year) and they are outside of our parameters for membership.

IMO they still could add value to the ACC in football. Academics and fan behavior and minor sports would still be an issue, however.

That is a fair evaluation of West Virginia. But the issues that concern the SEC will also concern the ACC. I would love to see West Virginia part of the ACC, but I do not think it will come to pass in my lifetime. That being said the two times I've been to Morgantown I wish to forget. It can be an inhospitable place.

I don't see how WVU could get the votes from the ACC if the Carolina core don't like them. UVA would probably say no and possibly VT. To me, WVU might might mustard up enough votes if expansion was needed to renegotiate a market value price and the ACC need strong football members.

Now if you want WVU in the SEC, they would have to be the best available school after expanding with a must have school.
09-01-2016 12:59 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #22
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 12:28 AM)texasorange Wrote:  That is a fair evaluation of West Virginia. But the issues that concern the SEC will also concern the ACC. I would love to see West Virginia part of the ACC, but I do not think it will come to pass in my lifetime. That being said the two times I've been to Morgantown I wish to forget. It can be an inhospitable place.

I keep hearing this from multiple people including some friends of mine that encountered their fans at a game a while back.

I think their fan behavior hurts them more than they want to admit. It's fine to have an intimidating atmosphere, but at the end of the day you can't treat people like crap.

We like to give LSU fans crap for being obnoxious, but they really aren't that bad.
09-01-2016 02:50 AM
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tcufrog86 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
I've never been to Morgantown but I was around some WVU fans when they played in Fort Worth a couple years ago and for the most part were a good bunch of folks.

Of course I'm guessing most of their away fans are transplanted alums and I think in general alumni fans tend not to be the issue in any fan base.
09-01-2016 03:20 PM
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AubTiger16 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 03:20 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  I've never been to Morgantown but I was around some WVU fans when they played in Fort Worth a couple years ago and for the most part were a good bunch of folks.

Of course I'm guessing most of their away fans are transplanted alums and I think in general alumni fans tend not to be the issue in any fan base.

I really think it's just a perception thing. Every team has rude and unruly fans.
09-01-2016 03:34 PM
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tcufrog86 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 03:34 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 03:20 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  I've never been to Morgantown but I was around some WVU fans when they played in Fort Worth a couple years ago and for the most part were a good bunch of folks.

Of course I'm guessing most of their away fans are transplanted alums and I think in general alumni fans tend not to be the issue in any fan base.

I really think it's just a perception thing. Every team has rude and unruly fans.

Absolutely true, I went to grad school at Wisconsin and will honestly say that UW has one of the rudest student sections in the country. The all on verbal assault I saw some Nebraska fans receive on their first visit to Madison was embarrassing.

Of course much of it is alcohol fueled.
09-01-2016 03:58 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #26
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 03:58 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 03:34 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 03:20 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  I've never been to Morgantown but I was around some WVU fans when they played in Fort Worth a couple years ago and for the most part were a good bunch of folks.

Of course I'm guessing most of their away fans are transplanted alums and I think in general alumni fans tend not to be the issue in any fan base.

I really think it's just a perception thing. Every team has rude and unruly fans.

Absolutely true, I went to grad school at Wisconsin and will honestly say that UW has one of the rudest student sections in the country. The all on verbal assault I saw some Nebraska fans receive on their first visit to Madison was embarrassing.

Of course much of it is alcohol fueled.

After an L.S.U. victory in Morgantown an L.S.U. away fan (these tend to be wealthier because of ticket priorities) was dragged from his car and beaten and his pregnant wife was punched in the stomach. We aren't talking your random B.S. verbal abuse here. We are talking about roving groups of drunken fans hurling bottles, not insults, and physically assaulting people, not verbally abusing them. But that kind of goes hand in hand with couch burning.

Remember too that WVU's travel crowd will tend to be their upper end folks as well. Morgantown has long history of being a physically rough place to play.

I don't think the average away crowd from any SEC school wants those kind of experiences. Baton Rouge is raucous and can be verbally abusive. But nobody I know has ever been physically assaulted there.

So unless you've traveled to the venues, I would suggest that giving the benefit of the doubt is an uninformed position.
09-01-2016 05:12 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #27
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 05:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 03:58 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 03:34 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 03:20 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote:  I've never been to Morgantown but I was around some WVU fans when they played in Fort Worth a couple years ago and for the most part were a good bunch of folks.

Of course I'm guessing most of their away fans are transplanted alums and I think in general alumni fans tend not to be the issue in any fan base.

I really think it's just a perception thing. Every team has rude and unruly fans.

Absolutely true, I went to grad school at Wisconsin and will honestly say that UW has one of the rudest student sections in the country. The all on verbal assault I saw some Nebraska fans receive on their first visit to Madison was embarrassing.

Of course much of it is alcohol fueled.

After an L.S.U. victory in Morgantown an L.S.U. away fan (these tend to be wealthier because of ticket priorities) was dragged from his car and beaten and his pregnant wife was punched in the stomach. We aren't talking your random B.S. verbal abuse here. We are talking about roving groups of drunken fans hurling bottles, not insults, and physically assaulting people, not verbally abusing them. But that kind of goes hand in hand with couch burning.

Remember too that WVU's travel crowd will tend to be their upper end folks as well. Morgantown has long history of being a physically rough place to play.

I don't think the average away crowd from any SEC school wants those kind of experiences. Baton Rouge is raucous and can be verbally abusive. But nobody I know has ever been physically assaulted there.

So unless you've traveled to the venues, I would suggest that giving the benefit of the doubt is an uninformed position.

Well, they were LSU fans....
09-01-2016 06:55 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #28
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
WVU's biggest problem is their student are culturally very different. A lot of kids from the upper East Coast go there.

That's a totally different vibe than one gets from the kids at Ole Miss etc.

From a student's perspective they may as well be aliens.
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2016 08:22 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
09-01-2016 08:21 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #29
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 08:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  WVU's biggest problem is their student are culturally very different. A lot of kids from the upper East Coast go there.

That's a totally different vibe than one gets from the kids at Ole Miss etc.

From a student's perspective they may as well be aliens.

Don't underestimate the power of alcohol sales at the venue to heighten the problem. I'm just sorry that we are caving on that issue. We could wind up with some ugly situations as well. It also has had a great deal to do with some of those notable deadly falls at pro venues. It's going to happen to us if we go down that road. Some may be drunk when they come in from the tailgate but they do have almost 4 hours to sober up before leaving.
09-01-2016 08:25 PM
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AubTiger16 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
My ex wife is a WVU fan. I've been to about 15-18 games or so. We'd go a few times a year when I was stationed at Fort Bragg. So I'm not really uninformed but I haven't seen everything obviously. I have seen the typical drunk fan but I've never seen anything physical.

That's the first I'd heard of the LSU fan. I don't keep up with WVU, and don't really care for them at all personally. That's horrible that that happened.
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2016 10:35 PM by AubTiger16.)
09-01-2016 10:33 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #31
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 10:33 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote:  My ex wife is a WVU fan. I've been to about 15-18 games or so. We'd go a few times a year when I was stationed at Fort Bragg. So I'm not really uninformed but I haven't seen everything obviously. I have seen the typical drunk fan but I've never seen anything physical.

That's the first I'd heard of the LSU fan. I don't keep up with WVU, and don't really care for them at all personally. That's horrible that that happened.

Ex-wife....

'Nuff said!

No WVU
09-01-2016 10:37 PM
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AubTiger16 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-01-2016 10:37 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 10:33 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote:  My ex wife is a WVU fan. I've been to about 15-18 games or so. We'd go a few times a year when I was stationed at Fort Bragg. So I'm not really uninformed but I haven't seen everything obviously. I have seen the typical drunk fan but I've never seen anything physical.

That's the first I'd heard of the LSU fan. I don't keep up with WVU, and don't really care for them at all personally. That's horrible that that happened.

Ex-wife....

'Nuff said!

No WVU

Lol true enough.

I definitely don't want WVU in the SEC I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt based on my experiences, but like I said I don't know everything nor do I care too.
09-01-2016 10:41 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #33
West Virginia's chance to escape
Here's an article from 2011 from a WV point of view on their fan behavior. It also touches on JR's concerns about alcohol sales. As long as proper controls are in place, I don't think the SEC will have a problem with alcohol sales. Those controls are lacking in Morgantown. I'm confident that the SEC won't share the same "anything goes" mentality.

http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/15588...wvus-image

Are we as Mountaineer fans just numb to it because it's what we're used to, or do we just get a bad rap because of the actions of a minority? The answer is probably some of both. There are tens of thousands of Mountaineer fans who go to games and don't contribute to any of the problems. There are fans though, most of them young and students, who apply an "anything goes" mentality to Morgantown. We have to admit, that to some extent, anything does go in the University City. Officials have done a good job cracking down on the fires, but there still aren't that many cities in the country where you can walk around with an open container of your favorite alcoholic beverage, park dozens of cars in your front yard and be drunk in public without much fear of being ticketed or hauled off to jail, just because it's game day. All of these things are technically illegal in Morgantown, but how do you enforce them when 50,000 to 70,000 people descend on the city?
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2016 05:28 PM by Lenvillecards.)
09-02-2016 05:27 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #34
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
Better get used to them 'cause we aren't taking 'em.
09-02-2016 07:57 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #35
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-02-2016 07:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  Better get used to them 'cause we aren't taking 'em.

Keep telling yourself that.
09-02-2016 08:04 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #36
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(09-02-2016 08:04 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 07:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  Better get used to them 'cause we aren't taking 'em.

Keep telling yourself that.

1) We already had to take Louisville

2) ****most important*****
The SEC is most vulnerable in the north and needs help keeping the mongrel hordes at bay......a la West Virginia. Whether you realize it or not he SEC needs West Virginia.
09-02-2016 08:28 PM
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AubTiger16 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
Most vulnerable lol.

Please explain.

Because I can tell you this.

The ACC certainly isn't taking anyone.

Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Missouri aren't leaving.

I don't care who you had to take. The SEC will never be in the position the ACC was in.

The other thing is you're making it seem like Louisville was a bad add. They instantly became one of the top programs in the ACC the second they accepted the invite.

Take away Clemson and Florida State and what would the ACC be in football currently?

Louisville was the best athletic program you could add and the ACC needed them. Throw your academic standards out of the window, Louisville instantly made you better.

Miami hasn't done anything in the ACC, FSU was down until recently, Clemson wasn't competing for titles until last year, UNC isn't a football school. Look at the schedule you played last season on your way to #10. Look at who your best opponents and your wins came against.

I'm not dogging the ACC because I feel it's on the way up.

Miami's new coach. Virginia Tech's new coach. Clemson and Florida State are in a position to compete for titles. Louisville was a great addition.

The ACC needed a boost. Louisville provided that boost. WVU would also provide a boost for you. They do nothing for the SEC. They do alot more for the ACC. That's what you keep missing on.

WVU would be the best program you could add without taking from the SEC, B1G or PAC12 if you want to increase your overall stance and since the ACC isn't going to be getting teams from any of the conferences mentioned WVU would be the team after the GOR or if the Big 12 breaks up that makes sense.

You keep throwing out these scenarios as if the SEC needs to do WVU a favor and take them. The SEC doesn't need to do anything. When the time comes our leadership will evaluate and they will add who they think is best.

I know you are deep down hoping for a favor. You want the SEC to toss you South Carolina. You want the SEC to pick up WVU so you don't have too. It's like you expect the SEC to do all of these favors for the ACC and get what in return exactly?
(This post was last modified: 09-02-2016 11:07 PM by AubTiger16.)
09-02-2016 08:58 PM
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Otacon Offline
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Post: #38
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
Don't worry boys. We're saving up couches for the big invite..... Gonna see that fire from some distance.
09-03-2016 06:15 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #39
RE: West Virginia's chance to escape
(08-25-2016 06:31 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-25-2016 03:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  Quick, while the rest of the league is distracted, WVU could slip out the back window into the SEC or the ACC.
This would allow the Big 12 to expand with BYU, Houston and Colorado State and develop some sort of identity.
All they need now is an invitation.......which one of you guys wants to call Birmingham?

WVU should have been in the ACC years ago. I guess the ACC is too worried about academic status. They would be great for competition in the ACC.

Never again! After UNC's 25 years of academic fraud I'd say they should embrace the Eers for being honestly less studious rather than fraudulently elite!
09-03-2016 07:06 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #40
West Virginia's chance to escape
Neither the ACC or the SEC "needs" WV.
09-04-2016 01:03 AM
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