Race car guy has always had an odd infatuation with Liberty land and has a lot of bad ideas. Maybe he should run for city council?

(08-25-2016 11:06 PM)3601 Wrote:  Race car guy has always had an odd infatuation with Liberty land and has a lot of bad ideas. Maybe he should run for city council?

I loved LibertyLand! And Adventure River! But they are gone and won't be coming back and he needs to realize something is better than nothing....and if we wait for another LibertyLand we will forever be stuck with nothing. Plus beer is awesome! Go beer!

(08-23-2016 07:13 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  We need to renovate the mud island amphitheater and expand it to equal the size of Snowden grove. Then we will be able to compete and get more concerts

One of the best places anywhere. Memphis should take advantage of the Mississippi River as an attraction. Great place for music.

Most of us understand the theories of static vs dynamic but the coliseum & Libertyland are not good applications to demonstrate the differences. The dynamic model offered is only theoretical & incorrectly assumes the potential visitors to Libertyland didn't spend that same money in the Memphis area - and this is a very unlikely occurrence. One would first have to correctly calculate where visitors to Libertyland were coming from & then determine if they came from outside the Memphis area specifically to come to Libertyland in order to make a case of lost opportunity. But the real point of the Coliseum was its income level prior to shutdown vs its need & costs for repair to maintain an occupancy permit - and then to project expected income both statically & dynamically while considering restoration, ongoing maintenance - and most importantly the operating restrictions imposed by the FedEX Forum. And these considerations are implied in the decisions made to shutdown the coliseum in 2006.

(08-25-2016 05:37 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 05:09 PM)RandyMc Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 04:14 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  the Static economy model.

Please describe the Static economic model and apply it to the Coliseum case.

Static economy model is zero sum. Meaning no matter what you do it does not change the economy.

IE Libertyland. Static model believes that if the city cuts off the money spent to cover operating losses that is the end of the story. The city gains that amount in it's budget.

Dynamic model believes that there is a cause and effect to every action. While the city will gain money from not having to cover the operating losses. It also loses money from secondary economic impact as the money the Libertyland tourist would have spent in the local economy. The money the employees would have spent in the economy is now lost. Every dollar spent by tourist turn over 7 times in the local economy. There is around $2.5 million taken out of the economy each year from the payroll alone. If all of that is spent locally you are looking at around $17.5 million taken out of the economy according to the money turning over 7 times.. Or sales tax revenue of up to $1.7 million. Not considering the sale tax revenue on supplies for the park.


The Static model showed the City saved less than $100,000 by shutting down the park. While the dynamic model showed the city ended up losing closed to $7 to $10 million in tax revenues.

(08-26-2016 09:01 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  Most of us understand the theories of static vs dynamic but the coliseum & Libertyland are not good applications to demonstrate the differences. The dynamic model offered is only theoretical & incorrectly assumes the potential visitors to Libertyland didn't spend that same money in the Memphis area - and this is a very unlikely occurrence. One would first have to correctly calculate where visitors to Libertyland were coming from & then determine if they came from outside the Memphis area specifically to come to Libertyland in order to make a case of lost opportunity. But the real point of the Coliseum was its income level prior to shutdown vs its need & costs for repair to maintain an occupancy permit - and then to project expected income both statically & dynamically while considering restoration, ongoing maintenance - and most importantly the operating restrictions imposed by the FedEX Forum. And these considerations are implied in the decisions made to shutdown the coliseum in 2006.

Actually, this is one of, if not the most, interesting discussions on this board in a long time.

(08-25-2016 11:16 PM)Smith Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 07:13 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  We need to renovate the mud island amphitheater and expand it to equal the size of Snowden grove. Then we will be able to compete and get more concerts

One of the best places anywhere. Memphis should take advantage of the Mississippi River as an attraction. Great place for music.

Saw where St. Louis is gaining g a 45 million dollar aquarium in the old mall part of Union Station. Saw this as well:
http://www.inquisitr.com/3421861/wings-o...n-seattle/

Both of those are no brainers for Mud Island, the aquarium would be a new Memphis Zoo ran facility to replace the old one at the zoo and the Disney like ride featuring a trip down the Mississippi would be the cornerstone of a revamped and modernized River Museum. A ferris wheel like attraction should actually be a Star Flyer that's over 300 ft. tall.

Google: star flyer Copenhagen

44 to 50 million for decent aqaurium
3 million for Star Flyer
Museum redo with Soarin' style flight simulator 30 million

Complete rebuild of Amp with a distinctive open air roof that preserves sightlines of downtown with overall cap at 10,000. Cost est. Unknown.

Update and repair riverwalk

Add a Christmas event complete with massive Christmas Tree lighting display, European style market, ice rink and tubing hill.

(08-26-2016 09:42 AM)WaywardMemphian Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 11:16 PM)Smith Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 07:13 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  We need to renovate the mud island amphitheater and expand it to equal the size of Snowden grove. Then we will be able to compete and get more concerts

One of the best places anywhere. Memphis should take advantage of the Mississippi River as an attraction. Great place for music.

Saw where St. Louis is gaining g a 45 million dollar aquarium in the old mall part of Union Station. Saw this as well:
http://www.inquisitr.com/3421861/wings-o...n-seattle/

Both of those are no brainers for Mud Island, the aquarium would be a new Memphis Zoo ran facility to replace the old one at the zoo and the Disney like ride featuring a trip down the Mississippi would be the cornerstone of a revamped and modernized River Museum. A ferris wheel like attraction should actually be a Star Flyer that's over 300 ft. tall.

Google: star flyer Copenhagen

44 to 50 million for decent aqaurium
3 million for Star Flyer
Museum redo with Soarin' style flight simulator 30 million

Complete rebuild of Amp with a distinctive open air roof that preserves sightlines of downtown with overall cap at 10,000. Cost est. Unknown.

Update and repair riverwalk

Add a Christmas event complete with massive Christmas Tree lighting display, European style market, ice rink and tubing hill.

Where do I sign up?

All great ideas.

(08-26-2016 09:44 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 09:42 AM)WaywardMemphian Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 11:16 PM)Smith Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 07:13 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  We need to renovate the mud island amphitheater and expand it to equal the size of Snowden grove. Then we will be able to compete and get more concerts

One of the best places anywhere. Memphis should take advantage of the Mississippi River as an attraction. Great place for music.

Saw where St. Louis is gaining g a 45 million dollar aquarium in the old mall part of Union Station. Saw this as well:
http://www.inquisitr.com/3421861/wings-o...n-seattle/

Both of those are no brainers for Mud Island, the aquarium would be a new Memphis Zoo ran facility to replace the old one at the zoo and the Disney like ride featuring a trip down the Mississippi would be the cornerstone of a revamped and modernized River Museum. A ferris wheel like attraction should actually be a Star Flyer that's over 300 ft. tall.

Google: star flyer Copenhagen

44 to 50 million for decent aqaurium
3 million for Star Flyer
Museum redo with Soarin' style flight simulator 30 million

Complete rebuild of Amp with a distinctive open air roof that preserves sightlines of downtown with overall cap at 10,000. Cost est. Unknown.

Update and repair riverwalk

Add a Christmas event complete with massive Christmas Tree lighting display, European style market, ice rink and tubing hill.

Where do I sign up?

All great ideas.

I like it as well.

I just can see anybody putting anything near $100 Million in Mud Island.

(08-26-2016 09:44 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 09:42 AM)WaywardMemphian Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 11:16 PM)Smith Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 07:13 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  We need to renovate the mud island amphitheater and expand it to equal the size of Snowden grove. Then we will be able to compete and get more concerts

One of the best places anywhere. Memphis should take advantage of the Mississippi River as an attraction. Great place for music.

Saw where St. Louis is gaining g a 45 million dollar aquarium in the old mall part of Union Station. Saw this as well:
http://www.inquisitr.com/3421861/wings-o...n-seattle/

Both of those are no brainers for Mud Island, the aquarium would be a new Memphis Zoo ran facility to replace the old one at the zoo and the Disney like ride featuring a trip down the Mississippi would be the cornerstone of a revamped and modernized River Museum. A ferris wheel like attraction should actually be a Star Flyer that's over 300 ft. tall.

Google: star flyer Copenhagen

44 to 50 million for decent aqaurium
3 million for Star Flyer
Museum redo with Soarin' style flight simulator 30 million

Complete rebuild of Amp with a distinctive open air roof that preserves sightlines of downtown with overall cap at 10,000. Cost est. Unknown.

Update and repair riverwalk

Add a Christmas event complete with massive Christmas Tree lighting display, European style market, ice rink and tubing hill.

Where do I sign up?

All great ideas.

It's an absolute astonishment that this city hasn't been able to attract a firm with something remotely like this. The best they could do was Andy Cate's Yurt Paradise the last time. Seriously, the city should take their asses to the next IAPPA convention in Orlando and pass out brochures to all the design firms and management outfits and say here, hit us with your best shot. Lay out ground rules for must have and absolutely nots.

Just the Aquarium ideal coupled with a trolley line to the zoo could have been a parking debate solution. Park at the Island and visit aqaurium and ride to the zoo and back.

Now imagine a tree like this but bigger on a platform in th3 middle of the Gulf on the riverwalk

Yea, an hour trolley ride to the zoo sounds like a terrific idea.

Vienna Star Flyer during the day


At night


Now imagine this around where the Memphis Belle was with just a handful of other rides, not amusement park like in quantity, just a few like themed accompaniments. Some one or two trill and one of two sticky tame for all ages in possible covered Carousel Barn like structures that can be temp enclosed for the Christmas season. Possibly a small footprint coaster eventually with careful placement planning. But, to get the ball rolling, just the damn Star Flyer.

(08-26-2016 10:18 AM)3601 Wrote:  Yea, an hour trolley ride to the zoo sounds like a terrific idea.

Why would it have to take an hour, especially on free day and weekends, it becomes a zoo express. Most kids like trolleys. It's now different than acting the monorail from WDW to Epcot.It should be included in season passes for zoo patrons as well.

(08-26-2016 09:05 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...

Actually, this is one of, if not the most, interesting discussions on this board in a long time.

Which ranking do you want to look at? Your silly ranking or the one the coaches talk about?

Lemonade
Toe Socks
Construction Costs
Kale
Elephant Shrews

QED.

(08-26-2016 11:14 AM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 09:05 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...

Actually, this is one of, if not the most, interesting discussions on this board in a long time.

Which ranking do you want to look at? Your silly ranking or the one the coaches talk about?

Lemonade
Toe Socks
Construction Costs
Kale
Elephant Shrews

QED.

Am I supposed to have any idea what that all means? It sounds very interesting, though.

(08-25-2016 04:14 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  City jumped at the first cash in hand without considering other potential offers. Has barely been a month since tours were allowed by investors.

EVERY offer would have resulted in the same $300,000 a year lease, but would provide a much large economic impact for the city.

City is never going to be what it can be if the leadership keeps operating under the Static economy model.

I think I have asked you this before but why do you care about what "City" does? Worry about what Horn Lake has going on and leave City of Memphis discussions to the adults.

(08-26-2016 11:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 11:14 AM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 09:05 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...

Actually, this is one of, if not the most, interesting discussions on this board in a long time.

Which ranking do you want to look at? Your silly ranking or the one the coaches talk about?

Lemonade
Toe Socks
Construction Costs
Kale
Elephant Shrews

QED.

Am I supposed to have any idea what that all means? It sounds very interesting, though.

It was a simulated argument about how the RPI is a better ranking than Kenpom. Any good argument needs a list of things completely unrelated to it.

(08-26-2016 10:32 AM)WaywardMemphian Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 10:18 AM)3601 Wrote:  Yea, an hour trolley ride to the zoo sounds like a terrific idea.

Why would it have to take an hour, especially on free day and weekends, it becomes a zoo express. Most kids like trolleys. It's now different than acting the monorail from WDW to Epcot.It should be included in season passes for zoo patrons as well.

You ever ridden the trolley?

(08-26-2016 09:05 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 05:37 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 05:09 PM)RandyMc Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 04:14 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  the Static economy model.

Please describe the Static economic model and apply it to the Coliseum case.

Static economy model is zero sum. Meaning no matter what you do it does not change the economy.

IE Libertyland. Static model believes that if the city cuts off the money spent to cover operating losses that is the end of the story. The city gains that amount in it's budget.

Dynamic model believes that there is a cause and effect to every action. While the city will gain money from not having to cover the operating losses. It also loses money from secondary economic impact as the money the Libertyland tourist would have spent in the local economy. The money the employees would have spent in the economy is now lost. Every dollar spent by tourist turn over 7 times in the local economy. There is around $2.5 million taken out of the economy each year from the payroll alone. If all of that is spent locally you are looking at around $17.5 million taken out of the economy according to the money turning over 7 times.. Or sales tax revenue of up to $1.7 million. Not considering the sale tax revenue on supplies for the park.


The Static model showed the City saved less than $100,000 by shutting down the park. While the dynamic model showed the city ended up losing closed to $7 to $10 million in tax revenues.

(08-26-2016 09:01 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  Most of us understand the theories of static vs dynamic but the coliseum & Libertyland are not good applications to demonstrate the differences. The dynamic model offered is only theoretical & incorrectly assumes the potential visitors to Libertyland didn't spend that same money in the Memphis area - and this is a very unlikely occurrence. One would first have to correctly calculate where visitors to Libertyland were coming from & then determine if they came from outside the Memphis area specifically to come to Libertyland in order to make a case of lost opportunity. But the real point of the Coliseum was its income level prior to shutdown vs its need & costs for repair to maintain an occupancy permit - and then to project expected income both statically & dynamically while considering restoration, ongoing maintenance - and most importantly the operating restrictions imposed by the FedEX Forum. And these considerations are implied in the decisions made to shutdown the coliseum in 2006.

Actually, this is one of, if not the most, interesting discussions on this board in a long time.

Which sounds like commentary on the quality of discussions on the board.

(08-26-2016 01:13 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 10:32 AM)WaywardMemphian Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 10:18 AM)3601 Wrote:  Yea, an hour trolley ride to the zoo sounds like a terrific idea.

Why would it have to take an hour, especially on free day and weekends, it becomes a zoo express. Most kids like trolleys. It's now different than acting the monorail from WDW to Epcot.It should be included in season passes for zoo patrons as well.

You ever ridden the trolley?

Is anybody riding the trolley?