(08-22-2016 11:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The book "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" posits that cavemen, or early modern humans, were much happier than the humans that followed the agriculture revolution.

The author suggests that hunter/gatherers spent far less time in subsistence efforts than those who toiled in the later fields of grain. There were far fewer humans and much less conflict over available resources, since the population was easily sustainable given the fauna and flora available.

In what might have be the most contentious suggestion, the author discounts the theory of the warlike early modern human and suggests there was little inter tribal contacts.

I'm not familiar with the book you reference, but I do believe that the creation myth and other myths in Genesis were inspired from the migration away from a hunter/gatherer culture to an agriculture based culture. In a sense, you can think of the Adam and Eve characters as living in an Eden type place where food was plentiful and little work was needed to exist. Maybe agriculture was the opening of "Pandora's Box" and that as population exploded that it ultimately became the "curse" that was laid at the feet of men. Practically speaking, the "original sin" was the audacity of man to try to tame nature thru agriculture, and that the expulsion from the garden was the "reward" for such a sin - namely that gathering your food was no longer sufficient to take care of the rising population.

I'd say in at least 80% of the wars fought in human history was due to scarcity of resources. Interesting things to muse.

(08-22-2016 11:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The book "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" posits that cavemen, or early modern humans, were much happier than the humans that followed the agriculture revolution.

My initial reaction to this is "how the hell would they know that?" There is no such thing as a happiness quotient that I know of and it's not like cavemen and early modern humans left a lot of records.

Maybe they were happier, but they died earlier of diseases, lived cold (or hot) nasty, relatively solitary, brutish and short lives. If that really what people want to strive for?

(08-22-2016 12:06 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 11:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The book "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" posits that cavemen, or early modern humans, were much happier than the humans that followed the agriculture revolution.

My initial reaction to this is "how the hell would they know that?" There is no such thing as a happiness quotient that I know of and it's not like cavemen and early modern humans left a lot of records.

Maybe they were happier, but they died earlier of diseases, lived cold (or hot) nasty, relatively solitary, brutish and short lives. If that really what people want to strive for?

I agree that the term "happiness" is subjective. Purely speculative on my part, but I think early on there could have been pockets of humans in different parts of the planet that had the "Garden of Eden" experience. I know there has been investigations into the regions around the Persian Gulf where it appeared that a very lush "garden like" place used to exist that was flooded out by the rising sea levels during the end of the last ice age. Similar stories have been told about the Black Sea region too, and again as pure speculation only I believe that the Great Flood was ultimately inspired by a distant memory of the Persian Gulf sea rise wiping out older civilizations along ancient coastlines that used to exist.

But your point stands that even if the speculation is that SOME hunter/gather tribes were happier before agriculture, the overall standard of living even back then was nothing compared to what we have today.

(08-22-2016 12:06 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 11:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The book "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" posits that cavemen, or early modern humans, were much happier than the humans that followed the agriculture revolution.

My initial reaction to this is "how the hell would they know that?" There is no such thing as a happiness quotient that I know of and it's not like cavemen and early modern humans left a lot of records.

Maybe they were happier, but they died earlier of diseases, lived cold (or hot) nasty, relatively solitary, brutish and short lives. If that really what people want to strive for?

At least they weren't slaves to the almighty dollar.

I agree with you about all the bad stuff though, the above thought just popped into my head in a semi-sarcastic old-man sounding voice.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this is article was written yesterday.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-world-i...1546430400

Quote:Poverty around the world is plummeting; half the world is now middle class; and illiteracy, disease and deadly violence are receding. These things don’t make headlines because they are gradual, relentless and unsurprising. That is why they are worth highlighting.The problems the world faces are far smaller than those it has already overcome and can be solved the same way: not by betting on miracles but by patiently applying knowledge and tools we already possess.

For most of recorded history humanity lived on the brink of starvation. As recently as 1980 nearly half the world lived in “extreme poverty,” that is, consuming less than the basic necessities, which the World Bank values at $1.90 a day in 2011 dollars, adjusted for the differing costs of goods and services between countries. The proportion of people in extreme poverty was projected to fall to an estimated 8.6% last year and, given the correlation between growth and poverty, is almost certain to drop further this year.

Quote:The world first eradicated a disease, smallpox, in 1980. It could soon eradicate a few more: 2016 saw just 46 new cases of paralytic polio recorded; in 2017, there were just 25 new infections of Guinea worm, a painful and disabling parasitic infection. These victories come not through laboratory breakthroughs but the meticulous application of tried-and-true tools, such as vaccination and improved sanitation.

We ARE living in a golden age. Today you just open a valve and get clean fresh water. You're hungry and all you need to do is go to your neighborhood store for groceries that are stocked to the brim of whatever you crave. No need to raise livestock or poultry for your subsistence, it's all there for the taking...with money of course. If you don't have any you have social welfare programs that will HELP you with that. You have cars, entertainment for free (TVs and radio). And yet, we cry that the government is not doing enough while all the while taking for granted all those needs that are supplied to us without even needing to work for them.

I don't know about you but in the mornings when I drink my first glass of water I THANK GOD for providing me with that life giving liquid. How many of you do that, though?

(08-22-2016 11:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The book "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" posits that cavemen, or early modern humans, were much happier than the humans that followed the agriculture revolution.

The author suggests that hunter/gatherers spent far less time in subsistence efforts than those who toiled in the later fields of grain. There were far fewer humans and much less conflict over available resources, since the population was easily sustainable given the fauna and flora available.

In what might have be the most contentious suggestion, the author discounts the theory of the warlike early modern human and suggests there was little inter tribal contacts.

Our loving ancestors. Not...

(08-19-2016 03:31 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 03:12 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  While the human condition is unquestionably improving -- thanks largely to liberalization of the economy in India and China -- I'd argue the state of governance is in decay. When you look out at the world what country do you look at and go "Woo now there's a small efficient government concerned only with law, order, contract enforcement, dispute resolution, national defense, and maximizing freedom and individual liberty." Answer: Null set.

I think Switzerland is doing it well enough.

People tend to lump them in with leviathan governments like Sweden but their government spending as a percentage of GDP is less than ours and they have civil liberties and a good standard of living.

and all that free heroin