(08-19-2016 12:01 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 11:10 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Anyone else notice that the same people saying that ESPN is going to have to pay the full amount for teams worth much less because it's "in the contract" are the same ones saying that the AAC early exit fee of 20 million won't stand up in court?

Who said that?

Voices in their heads

This pretty much sums up where Im at in this affair.



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(08-19-2016 10:03 AM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  The longer this drags on, there are only 2 possibilities: The B12 is inept and filled with foolish people. OR, they are using this process to squeeze more from TV.

Its both.

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(08-19-2016 12:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  For those arguing that ESPN has to honor contract , you need to get real. ESPN has a boatload of in house lawyers who are being paid to argue whatever ESPN wants to them to argue.

I am dubious that ESPN will not honor the contract, however, contracts go into dispute all of the time. All ESPN has to do is file a simple brief with the court and the lawsuit begins. Its an easy case to argue as they will argue intent and spirit of the contract.

True, but lets look at the big picture here.

Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

(08-19-2016 01:32 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 12:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  For those arguing that ESPN has to honor contract , you need to get real. ESPN has a boatload of in house lawyers who are being paid to argue whatever ESPN wants to them to argue.

I am dubious that ESPN will not honor the contract, however, contracts go into dispute all of the time. All ESPN has to do is file a simple brief with the court and the lawsuit begins. Its an easy case to argue as they will argue intent and spirit of the contract.

True, but lets look at the big picture here.

Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

I never understood this, it's 1 to 2 FBall games a week when 5 other games are going on for the given Saturday, really how much addiitonal content are we talking about.

(08-19-2016 01:35 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:32 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

I never understood this, it's 1 to 2 FBall games a week when 5 other games are going on for the given Saturday, really how much addiitonal content are we talking about.

Fox gets some first cut games but mainly gets leftovers with the B12. It has very little content in the central time zone and almost none in the eastern time zone.

They also have FS2 to fill (much like ESPN and ESPN2). If Fox could take its west coast content and pair it with 100% control over the B12 FS1 would basically become the home of the Longhorns and Sooners (along with the flavor of the year in the B12 like TCU is now) going head to head against the SEC, B10, and ACC.

(08-19-2016 01:32 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 12:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  For those arguing that ESPN has to honor contract , you need to get real. ESPN has a boatload of in house lawyers who are being paid to argue whatever ESPN wants to them to argue.

I am dubious that ESPN will not honor the contract, however, contracts go into dispute all of the time. All ESPN has to do is file a simple brief with the court and the lawsuit begins. Its an easy case to argue as they will argue intent and spirit of the contract.

True, but lets look at the big picture here.

Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

Even easier for me to break this down. Like the OP stated ESPN has lawyers ready to go. If this was a real thing (which I'm not saying it is not) why would the B12 risk a long and expensive lawsuit over any of the 20 teams on the list? What's stopping ESPN from filing a lawsuit now? B12 has not done anything yet, correct but they are spending money even talking to the schools.

The only thing that makes this fishy to me is that there is real money being spent talking to these schools and a potential for even more money being spent if ESPN decides to sue. Just risky and a risk B12 does not need to take for school on the list. I would think a president not an AD or coach would come out and say we need to stop this. Of whom voted to go down this path. Once that happens, I think I will take this more serious.

ESPN may not "win" in court, but I don't think that would be the goal. Tying the matter up for years while having an injunction against the B12 adding members until the issue is solved would be cheaper for the Mouse than 80-90 mil/year of expansion.

(08-19-2016 01:44 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:35 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:32 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

I never understood this, it's 1 to 2 FBall games a week when 5 other games are going on for the given Saturday, really how much addiitonal content are we talking about.

Fox gets some first cut games but mainly gets leftovers with the B12. It has very little content in the central time zone and almost none in the eastern time zone.

They also have FS2 to fill (much like ESPN and ESPN2). If Fox could take its west coast content and pair it with 100% control over the B12 FS1 would basically become the home of the Longhorns and Sooners (along with the flavor of the year in the B12 like TCU is now) going head to head against the SEC, B10, and ACC.

All at a cost of about $12.5mm per additional school, idk.

(08-19-2016 01:47 PM)3rdWardCoog Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:32 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 12:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  For those arguing that ESPN has to honor contract , you need to get real. ESPN has a boatload of in house lawyers who are being paid to argue whatever ESPN wants to them to argue.

I am dubious that ESPN will not honor the contract, however, contracts go into dispute all of the time. All ESPN has to do is file a simple brief with the court and the lawsuit begins. Its an easy case to argue as they will argue intent and spirit of the contract.

True, but lets look at the big picture here.

Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

Even easier for me to break this down. Like the OP stated ESPN has lawyers ready to go. If this was a real thing (which I'm not saying it is not) why would the B12 risk a long and expensive lawsuit over any of the 20 teams on the list? What's stopping ESPN from filing a lawsuit now? B12 has not done anything yet, correct but they are spending money even talking to the schools.

The only thing that makes this fishy to me is that there is real money being spent talking to these schools and a potential for even more money being spent if ESPN decides to sue. Just risky and a risk B12 does not need to take for school on the list. I would think a president not an AD or coach would come out and say we need to stop this. Of whom voted to go down this path. Once that happens, I think I will take this more serious.

The way for the Big 12 to make money (immediate and long term) is growth.

There is no lack of good candidates on that list.

Lets look at past expansion..
Utah, Louisville, USF, Cincinnati, TCU, Rutgers, etc.

Now current Big 12 Candidates...
BYU, Houston, USF/UCF, Cincinnati (again), UCONN, etc

The candidates for the Big 12 have pedigree and stack up favorably.

(08-19-2016 01:52 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  ESPN may not "win" in court, but I don't think that would be the goal. Tying the matter up for years while having an injunction against the B12 adding members until the issue is solved would be cheaper for the Mouse than 80-90 mil/year of expansion.

Who said it will take years? This is not a complex case. Its a very simple case.

(08-19-2016 01:54 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:44 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  Fox gets some first cut games but mainly gets leftovers with the B12. It has very little content in the central time zone and almost none in the eastern time zone.

They also have FS2 to fill (much like ESPN and ESPN2). If Fox could take its west coast content and pair it with 100% control over the B12 FS1 would basically become the home of the Longhorns and Sooners (along with the flavor of the year in the B12 like TCU is now) going head to head against the SEC, B10, and ACC.

All at a cost of about $12.5mm per additional school, idk.

Yes, and at possibly 30 mil per school it's a roughly 17 mil bump over what they pay now but they would have absolute control over the content unlike now.

I digress..... Basically other than a few limited articles early on you don't hear about Fox balking at paying for new teams. You only hear about ESPN.

It's obvious the B12 doesn't want to expand and certainly doesn't want some low life G5 team in. They are a circus...they are trying to scare ESPN into giving more money.

I imagine ESPN said no to more $$$ and the B12 said pro rata. ESPN cried about that but still wouldn't give more $$$ so B12 said who wants in? Arky St? NIU? Doesn't matter to us ESPN. You pay 1 way or another

(08-19-2016 02:01 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  It's obvious the B12 doesn't want to expand and certainly doesn't want some low life G5 team in. They are a circus...they are trying to scare ESPN into giving more money.

We'll see how it goes. The B1G stomached Rutgers as did the ACC with Louisville.

(08-19-2016 01:59 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:52 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  ESPN may not "win" in court, but I don't think that would be the goal. Tying the matter up for years while having an injunction against the B12 adding members until the issue is solved would be cheaper for the Mouse than 80-90 mil/year of expansion.

Who said it will take years? This is not a complex case. Its a very simple case.

Lol. With the right strategy, enough money, and enough lawyers/paralegals, the simplist civil cases can take many, many years. I'm in the middle of an open and shut case (non civil) that has dragged on for 2 years. We just found out we would win officially even though there really wasn't a leg for the other party to stand on. They have known as we have known for the entire 2 years what the outcome would be, but they delayed effectively. Civil cases often take a back seat in some courts. Play the game and it can easily be 2 years or more or rescheduling, continuations, renegotiations, etc

(08-19-2016 01:56 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:47 PM)3rdWardCoog Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:32 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 12:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  For those arguing that ESPN has to honor contract , you need to get real. ESPN has a boatload of in house lawyers who are being paid to argue whatever ESPN wants to them to argue.

I am dubious that ESPN will not honor the contract, however, contracts go into dispute all of the time. All ESPN has to do is file a simple brief with the court and the lawsuit begins. Its an easy case to argue as they will argue intent and spirit of the contract.

True, but lets look at the big picture here.

Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

Even easier for me to break this down. Like the OP stated ESPN has lawyers ready to go. If this was a real thing (which I'm not saying it is not) why would the B12 risk a long and expensive lawsuit over any of the 20 teams on the list? What's stopping ESPN from filing a lawsuit now? B12 has not done anything yet, correct but they are spending money even talking to the schools.

The only thing that makes this fishy to me is that there is real money being spent talking to these schools and a potential for even more money being spent if ESPN decides to sue. Just risky and a risk B12 does not need to take for school on the list. I would think a president not an AD or coach would come out and say we need to stop this. Of whom voted to go down this path. Once that happens, I think I will take this more serious.

The way for the Big 12 to make money (immediate and long term) is growth.

There is no lack of good candidates on that list.

Lets look at past expansion..
Utah, Louisville, USF, Cincinnati, TCU, Rutgers, etc.

Now current Big 12 Candidates...
BYU, Houston, USF/UCF, Cincinnati (again), UCONN, etc

The candidates for the Big 12 have pedigree and stack up favorably.

Do those school stack up favorably with a lawsuit from ESPN against their adds? I don't think so. Thus why would the B12 risk or even move forward in talking to these schools if ESPN will sue.

How is the B12 going to make money immediate and long term if they have to battle a lawsuit? This organeblood post just seems to have holes. B12 stands to lose money in the process of talking to candidates and any addition. I'm sure a President would come out and stop that. None thus far.

(08-19-2016 02:06 PM)3rdWardCoog Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:56 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:47 PM)3rdWardCoog Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 01:32 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 12:21 PM)baruna falls Wrote:  For those arguing that ESPN has to honor contract , you need to get real. ESPN has a boatload of in house lawyers who are being paid to argue whatever ESPN wants to them to argue.

I am dubious that ESPN will not honor the contract, however, contracts go into dispute all of the time. All ESPN has to do is file a simple brief with the court and the lawsuit begins. Its an easy case to argue as they will argue intent and spirit of the contract.

True, but lets look at the big picture here.

Fox needs/wants more content for FS1 and if ESPN spoils its relationship with the B12 I could see the B12 going 100% with Fox down the road as opposed to the halfsies they have now with Fox/ESPN.

You only seem to hear ESPN not willing to pay in these articles.

Even easier for me to break this down. Like the OP stated ESPN has lawyers ready to go. If this was a real thing (which I'm not saying it is not) why would the B12 risk a long and expensive lawsuit over any of the 20 teams on the list? What's stopping ESPN from filing a lawsuit now? B12 has not done anything yet, correct but they are spending money even talking to the schools.

The only thing that makes this fishy to me is that there is real money being spent talking to these schools and a potential for even more money being spent if ESPN decides to sue. Just risky and a risk B12 does not need to take for school on the list. I would think a president not an AD or coach would come out and say we need to stop this. Of whom voted to go down this path. Once that happens, I think I will take this more serious.

The way for the Big 12 to make money (immediate and long term) is growth.

There is no lack of good candidates on that list.

Lets look at past expansion..
Utah, Louisville, USF, Cincinnati, TCU, Rutgers, etc.

Now current Big 12 Candidates...
BYU, Houston, USF/UCF, Cincinnati (again), UCONN, etc

The candidates for the Big 12 have pedigree and stack up favorably.

Do those school stack up favorably with a lawsuit from ESPN against their adds? I don't think so. Thus why would the B12 risk or even move forward in talking to these schools if ESPN will sue.

How is the B12 going to make money immediate and long term if they have to battle a lawsuit? This organeblood post just seems to have holes. B12 stands to lose money in the process of talking to candidates and any addition. I'm sure a President would come out and stop that. None thus far.

What money are they losing by skyping?

(08-19-2016 10:03 AM)Bull Wrote:  The B12 being a 'dead man walking' maybe not good for the AAC... if they dissolve and UT/OU leave, the remnants will pick up a few lucky AAC schools and keep the brand, and be the legit #5 conference. But it's a disaster for any AAC schools who don't move to the 'new B12'.

I've never bought the idea that the AAC benefits at all, and might pick up WV, TCU etc... will never happen. Just like the old BE went down to 3, but still reloaded, the B12 leftovers (with a name that matters), will reload. No matter how many are left.

I hate this because I really like what we have going here in the AAC... I would much prefer us to move as a unit. But that's how it will unfold.

If the B12 dissolves then there will not be a B12. That means that the remaining B12 schools will be looking for a new conference.

(08-19-2016 02:04 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 02:01 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  It's obvious the B12 doesn't want to expand and certainly doesn't want some low life G5 team in. They are a circus...they are trying to scare ESPN into giving more money.

We'll see how it goes. The B1G stomached Rutgers as did the ACC with Louisville.

And the B12 may end up doing just that. But, they don't "want" the teams they expand with. Not that I'd care if they pick UM. While the other conferences may have taken teams for different reasons, none have been this big of a clown show. "Send in your resumes, NIU, ASU...doesn't matter!"

(08-19-2016 02:09 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  none have been this big of a clown show. "Send in your resumes, NIU, ASU...doesn't matter!"

There is a lot more to that whole exercise than meets the eye.

I suspect we shall soon see.