(08-19-2016 07:40 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:21 AM)emdypo Wrote:  Ron English also left a team with all types of internal problems and lacking in talent. Creighton has had to deal will the murder of a student athlete, budget issues, HBO special and a faculty trashing his program, and a losing culture that is by far the hardest program to recruit in the country. So, do I think we give Creighton a blank check, NO. And the fact that he stayed with McCaslin for two years and made very little change to the defensive scheme, shows some serious issues in decision making. Let's not forget how bad this team was last year, we expected them to be better than 2014 and honestly the defense was some how worse, the only game they showed up for was LSU. As much as this is a game of wins and losses, we need to look at product, if we win 4 games and get blown out in the other 8, that's much different then winning four games and losing another 8 by less than a touchdown. We need to show improvement on both sides of the ball, and Creighton needs to show that he is more than a good guy who holds his kids accountable, he needs to show he can coach at this level. Otherwise we are just delaying the next rebuild effort.

Odd I recall them "showing" up for the Old Dominion, Ball State Wyoming (does the team not show up when it wins a game?) and CMU games depending on your definition of showing up. Lets not forget POC was injured before the season began and Bell in the first game. Don't disagree that there needs to be improvement on the field.

I got this one: Losing at HOME to a conference foe by 11 (Ball State) is showing up? Losing at home to Old Dominion is showing up? I will give you the CMU game, it was competitive in Mt. Pleasant, Wyoming...okay but they were down to their 3rd string QB. Fine we'll take it. Just remember though, that Creighton did not win one single MAC game last year. He lost by 11, 26, 43, 28, 30, 15, 11, and 7 in their OWN CONFERENCE. That is not good enough, certainly not this season. He needs 6 wins and the losses have to be competitive in conference. No more excuses.

(08-19-2016 07:58 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:40 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:21 AM)emdypo Wrote:  Ron English also left a team with all types of internal problems and lacking in talent. Creighton has had to deal will the murder of a student athlete, budget issues, HBO special and a faculty trashing his program, and a losing culture that is by far the hardest program to recruit in the country. So, do I think we give Creighton a blank check, NO. And the fact that he stayed with McCaslin for two years and made very little change to the defensive scheme, shows some serious issues in decision making. Let's not forget how bad this team was last year, we expected them to be better than 2014 and honestly the defense was some how worse, the only game they showed up for was LSU. As much as this is a game of wins and losses, we need to look at product, if we win 4 games and get blown out in the other 8, that's much different then winning four games and losing another 8 by less than a touchdown. We need to show improvement on both sides of the ball, and Creighton needs to show that he is more than a good guy who holds his kids accountable, he needs to show he can coach at this level. Otherwise we are just delaying the next rebuild effort.

Odd I recall them "showing" up for the Old Dominion, Ball State Wyoming (does the team not show up when it wins a game?) and CMU games depending on your definition of showing up. Lets not forget POC was injured before the season began and Bell in the first game. Don't disagree that there needs to be improvement on the field.

I got this one: Losing at HOME to a conference foe by 11 (Ball State) is showing up? Losing at home to Old Dominion is showing up? I will give you the CMU game, it was competitive in Mt. Pleasant, Wyoming...okay but they were down to their 3rd string QB. Fine we'll take it. Just remember though, that Creighton did not win one single MAC game last year. He lost by 11, 26, 43, 28, 30, 15, 11, and 7 in their OWN CONFERENCE. That is not good enough, certainly not this season. He needs 6 wins and the losses have to be competitive in conference. No more excuses.

Bob, please don't give me anything because there's nothing I want from you-ever. Your usual negative opinion is duly noted and filed away-in my mental trash can where it belongs.

(08-19-2016 09:24 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:58 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:40 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:21 AM)emdypo Wrote:  Ron English also left a team with all types of internal problems and lacking in talent. Creighton has had to deal will the murder of a student athlete, budget issues, HBO special and a faculty trashing his program, and a losing culture that is by far the hardest program to recruit in the country. So, do I think we give Creighton a blank check, NO. And the fact that he stayed with McCaslin for two years and made very little change to the defensive scheme, shows some serious issues in decision making. Let's not forget how bad this team was last year, we expected them to be better than 2014 and honestly the defense was some how worse, the only game they showed up for was LSU. As much as this is a game of wins and losses, we need to look at product, if we win 4 games and get blown out in the other 8, that's much different then winning four games and losing another 8 by less than a touchdown. We need to show improvement on both sides of the ball, and Creighton needs to show that he is more than a good guy who holds his kids accountable, he needs to show he can coach at this level. Otherwise we are just delaying the next rebuild effort.

Odd I recall them "showing" up for the Old Dominion, Ball State Wyoming (does the team not show up when it wins a game?) and CMU games depending on your definition of showing up. Lets not forget POC was injured before the season began and Bell in the first game. Don't disagree that there needs to be improvement on the field.

I got this one: Losing at HOME to a conference foe by 11 (Ball State) is showing up? Losing at home to Old Dominion is showing up? I will give you the CMU game, it was competitive in Mt. Pleasant, Wyoming...okay but they were down to their 3rd string QB. Fine we'll take it. Just remember though, that Creighton did not win one single MAC game last year. He lost by 11, 26, 43, 28, 30, 15, 11, and 7 in their OWN CONFERENCE. That is not good enough, certainly not this season. He needs 6 wins and the losses have to be competitive in conference. No more excuses.

Bob, please don't give me anything because there's nothing I want from you-ever. Your usual negative opinion is duly noted and filed away-in my mental trash can where it belongs.

Come on 79, just let it die and rot on the vine. Only going to get 10x worse once the season starts. It's like death and taxes.

1) EMU Football wins 3 games or less this season. --CC probably stays. Exodus of assistant coaches.

2) EMU wins 6 games or more this season and makes a bowl.--CC probably stays. Exodus of assistant coaches. Recruiting becomes easier.

3) EMU Men's basketball wins 24 games and makes the NCAA tournament.--RM is outa here. Does he finally get the NBA job that he craves?

Lastly, EMU has not beat more than 4 D1 FBS teams in a season since 1996.

(08-19-2016 09:45 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 09:24 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:58 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:40 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:21 AM)emdypo Wrote:  Ron English also left a team with all types of internal problems and lacking in talent. Creighton has had to deal will the murder of a student athlete, budget issues, HBO special and a faculty trashing his program, and a losing culture that is by far the hardest program to recruit in the country. So, do I think we give Creighton a blank check, NO. And the fact that he stayed with McCaslin for two years and made very little change to the defensive scheme, shows some serious issues in decision making. Let's not forget how bad this team was last year, we expected them to be better than 2014 and honestly the defense was some how worse, the only game they showed up for was LSU. As much as this is a game of wins and losses, we need to look at product, if we win 4 games and get blown out in the other 8, that's much different then winning four games and losing another 8 by less than a touchdown. We need to show improvement on both sides of the ball, and Creighton needs to show that he is more than a good guy who holds his kids accountable, he needs to show he can coach at this level. Otherwise we are just delaying the next rebuild effort.

Odd I recall them "showing" up for the Old Dominion, Ball State Wyoming (does the team not show up when it wins a game?) and CMU games depending on your definition of showing up. Lets not forget POC was injured before the season began and Bell in the first game. Don't disagree that there needs to be improvement on the field.

I got this one: Losing at HOME to a conference foe by 11 (Ball State) is showing up? Losing at home to Old Dominion is showing up? I will give you the CMU game, it was competitive in Mt. Pleasant, Wyoming...okay but they were down to their 3rd string QB. Fine we'll take it. Just remember though, that Creighton did not win one single MAC game last year. He lost by 11, 26, 43, 28, 30, 15, 11, and 7 in their OWN CONFERENCE. That is not good enough, certainly not this season. He needs 6 wins and the losses have to be competitive in conference. No more excuses.

Bob, please don't give me anything because there's nothing I want from you-ever. Your usual negative opinion is duly noted and filed away-in my mental trash can where it belongs.

Come on 79, just let it die and rot on the vine. Only going to get 10x worse once the season starts. It's like death and taxes.

Sometimes fans can't see the forest for the trees.

Sometimes in sports one doesn't need to get too deep into the weeds to come up with a 'summary description' which describes something like a season in football, baseball, etc.

E.g., EMU won one game last year and no conference games.

The Chicago Cubs are running away with the NL regular season.

I'd suggest that folks see the 'big picture' and then drill down in the detail (weeds) to see if there is more to be learned.

I didn't see anything in the 2015 season to suggest that 2016 would be much better (sure POC is a force, but he is 1 of 22 starters on offense/defense).

I think if we win say 4 games, one or two of those 'extra' wins will come from a more favorable schedule. In 2014 we had MSU. In 2016 we have MVSU. Add the "V" for victory.

Maybe one or two of the wins by better defensive coaching.

So if we win 4 games I'll attribute the 2 'extra' wins to one game more favorable schedule (thinking of you, MVSU) and one game because the defense will make us more competitive in many games.

The idea, of course, is to be competitive in as many games as possible and try to win our share of the contested games.

I doubt we'll be more competitive vs. the 'Big 3' in the MAC West.

(08-19-2016 10:02 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 09:45 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 09:24 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:58 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:40 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Odd I recall them "showing" up for the Old Dominion, Ball State Wyoming (does the team not show up when it wins a game?) and CMU games depending on your definition of showing up. Lets not forget POC was injured before the season began and Bell in the first game. Don't disagree that there needs to be improvement on the field.

I got this one: Losing at HOME to a conference foe by 11 (Ball State) is showing up? Losing at home to Old Dominion is showing up? I will give you the CMU game, it was competitive in Mt. Pleasant, Wyoming...okay but they were down to their 3rd string QB. Fine we'll take it. Just remember though, that Creighton did not win one single MAC game last year. He lost by 11, 26, 43, 28, 30, 15, 11, and 7 in their OWN CONFERENCE. That is not good enough, certainly not this season. He needs 6 wins and the losses have to be competitive in conference. No more excuses.

Bob, please don't give me anything because there's nothing I want from you-ever. Your usual negative opinion is duly noted and filed away-in my mental trash can where it belongs.

Come on 79, just let it die and rot on the vine. Only going to get 10x worse once the season starts. It's like death and taxes.

Sometimes fans can't see the forest for the trees.

Sometimes in sports one doesn't need to get too deep into the weeds to come up with a 'summary description' which describes something like a season in football, baseball, etc.

E.g., EMU won one game last year and no conference games.

The Chicago Cubs are running away with the NL regular season.

I'd suggest that folks see the 'big picture' and then drill down in the detail (weeds) to see if there is more to be learned.

I didn't see anything in the 2015 season to suggest that 2016 would be much better (sure POC is a force, but he is 1 of 22 starters on offense/defense).

I think if we win say 4 games, one or two of those 'extra' wins will come from a more favorable schedule. In 2014 we had MSU. In 2016 we have MVSU. Add the "V" for victory.

Maybe one or two of the wins by better defensive coaching.

So if we win 4 games I'll attribute the 2 'extra' wins to one game more favorable schedule (thinking of you, MVSU) and one game because the defense will make us more competitive in many games.

The idea, of course, is to be competitive in as many games as possible and try to win our share of the contested games.

I doubt we'll be more competitive vs. the 'Big 3' in the MAC West.

I agree with this assessment.

Here is my "viewpoint" on the 2016 season. I know...not exactly in keeping with the OP's intent for the thread but... I desperately want to see improvement on both sides of the ball. I won't be okay/happy/satisfied with 3 or 4 wins but the way we lose will be just as important for me. If our losses are by 7 points or less I think I have seen improvement. If we continue to be blown out in our losses, by 14 or more points per game, I think the program has stalled and Coach Creighton either needs to make some assistant coaching changes or move on. I understand the hurdles that Coach Creighton has had to face but every coach has hurdle they have to overcome. He has been recruiting well and most of the payers are his recruits. It's time for that effort to bear fruit. At some point the rubber has to meet the road and I think the 2016 season has to be the start of that. So, 2 wins or less...God forbid...excluding injuries or other disasters...should mark the end of Coach Creighton's tenure at EMU. 3-5 wins, in my mind, (taking into account how the 9-7 losses happen) should solidify Coach Creighton another year. 6+ wins should ensure Coach Creighton stability in his position.

The thing is...starting over, if things don't work out with Coach Creighton, is going to be another painful process...new coaches, new systems, transfers out. It won't be good for EMU football.

(08-19-2016 07:18 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 06:59 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Ron English got to 6 wins and was right on the doorstep for 3 more if things had gone our way. The 2011 MAC coach of the year was outstanding and we need to hold Creighton to the same standard.

It is true that English, like Cooper, almost had this program headed straight up and then it tanked.

No guarantees in sports (ask UofM with Rich Rod, which lost to Appy State and Toledo).

Lloyd Carr was UM's HC when the Wolverines were upset by Appalachian State in 2007.

(08-22-2016 09:32 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 07:18 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 06:59 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Ron English got to 6 wins and was right on the doorstep for 3 more if things had gone our way. The 2011 MAC coach of the year was outstanding and we need to hold Creighton to the same standard.

It is true that English, like Cooper, almost had this program headed straight up and then it tanked.

No guarantees in sports (ask UofM with Rich Rod, which lost to Appy State and Toledo).

Lloyd Carr was UM's HC when the Wolverines were upset by Appalachian State in 2007.

Oops, my bad. Carr and Rich Rod get to share the pain...

I think if you've been bad for a long time, it will take a longer time to get better, since you have to somehow change the entire culture. For Novak, as I understand it, there were some bad apples he had to get rid of despite the impact on the talent so we got worse before we got better. Even our basketball took a good 4 years to get the team back to respectability, and a BB team normally shouldn't take as long to turn around. I don't think more turnover at head coach would help after this year, unless the team gets worse.

They should beat Miss. Valley State, and Charlotte though. They'll have a good chance against Miami, and Ball State. I think Wyoming will be better this year but you have them at home so you still have a fair chance there. Then a number of other games where playing a good game can result in a win. Just my .02.

Good perspective from NIU007. I think this brings up a good, long-long-term outlook for EMUFB too. We haven't seen the W's under Creighton [yet], but with everything else that he's having to help clean up around the program, Creighton's really doing a lot of work for whoever becomes the head coach after Creighton's time comes to an end. Jerry Kill and Rod Carey have certainly enjoyed the fruits of Novak's labor.

(08-22-2016 04:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I think if you've been bad for a long time, it will take a longer time to get better, since you have to somehow change the entire culture. For Novak, as I understand it, there were some bad apples he had to get rid of despite the impact on the talent so we got worse before we got better. Even our basketball took a good 4 years to get the team back to respectability, and a BB team normally shouldn't take as long to turn around. I don't think more turnover at head coach would help after this year, unless the team gets worse.

They should beat Miss. Valley State, and Charlotte though. They'll have a good chance against Miami, and Ball State. I think Wyoming will be better this year but you have them at home so you still have a fair chance there. Then a number of other games where playing a good game can result in a win. Just my .02.

Very true, similar to the way Ramsey cleaned up for the previous coach and made Murphy's job easier.

(08-23-2016 12:59 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Very true, similar to the way Ramsey cleaned up for the previous coach and made Murphy's job easier.

Not sure about that...

Ramsey inherited a mess but left an empty cupboard.

Truth be told, Murphy was VERY lucky that when he came to EMU the MAC was down, way down, and Murphy was able to win with minimal talent -- pulled it off by playing a zone most opponents were not prepared to face...

Now Murphy needs more talent as MAC opponents are reasonably prepared to see Murphy's zone... No surprise factor to the MAC or playing a defense no one hardily ever seen.

The team's APR (is that the right term?) was way down under Boone. So down, I believe a scholarship was pulled (I could be wrong). Ramsey did do an excellent job of turning that situation around.

(08-23-2016 10:27 AM)KPJ Wrote:  The team's APR (is that the right term?) was way down under Boone. So down, I believe a scholarship was pulled (I could be wrong). Ramsey did do an excellent job of turning that situation around.

Well Steve, I'm pretty sure of it. Actually KPJ is correct and we (Ramsey) lost 2 scholarships due to not meeting the minimum APR. . Boone left an academic mess and not alot of talent as well.

One of Ramsey's problems was that he couldn't keep Medlock healthy or Bowdry or both healthy the same year. Bad luck.

Here's the article, the academic mess Ramsey inherited and its consequences are near the bottom of the article.

NCAA database shows 2 immediate lost scholarships for the 2005-2006 season.


Men's Basketball Eastern Michigan University MI 2005 - 2006 875 Immediate Penalty - Scholarship Reduction = 2


http://www.annarbor.com/sports/charles-r...-fire-him/

"Ramsey, an Ypsilanti native and Eastern Michigan graduate, says he leaves the position proud of his "academic clean-up" of the program. With four players scheduled to graduate this year, Ramsey said -- and media relations director Greg Steiner confirmed -- all 21 of the players he brought into the program will have graduated. That number does not include players who have yet to be on campus for four seasons.

“As an alumni, I’m proud to say that I left the program (academically) in much better shape than when I came in," Ramsey said. “Whoever they decide to go with will come in under much, much smother circumstances and be able to really focus on coaching basketball early on and not have to clean it up.”

The Eagles had the MAC's lowest four-year rolling Academic Performance Rate, an NCAA measurement of academic success, before Ramsey's arrival."

Thanks for the find, emu79. I like reminders like these that coaches have more than just the sport to deal with.

...aaaaaaand now I'm upset with Tuttle again.

(08-23-2016 10:44 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 10:27 AM)KPJ Wrote:  The team's APR (is that the right term?) was way down under Boone. So down, I believe a scholarship was pulled (I could be wrong). Ramsey did do an excellent job of turning that situation around.

Here's the article, the academic mess Ramsey inherited and its consequences are near the bottom of the article.

NCAA database shows 2 immediate lost scholarships for the 2005-2006 season.


Men's Basketball Eastern Michigan University MI 2005 - 2006 875 Immediate Penalty - Scholarship Reduction = 2


http://www.annarbor.com/sports/charles-r...-fire-him/

The award for best newcomer to the board goes too.....
*opens envelope, reads card, looks up smiling and yells* "NOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTALEXGILLETT!!!!!!"

Woah! Question for you NotAlexGillet:
Are you actually Alex Gillett??

(08-19-2016 05:48 AM)KPJ Wrote:  Re: the 5 to 6 years to rebuild.

I'm just trying to remove my fan status and look at things objectively. The NIU example is a good one, but for it to be an established truth, I would think we'd need many more examples than that. Also, I wouldn't agree with using EMU's past decision making process as support for the theory as we aren't competing with ourselves. Even if we were, none of the coaches since Rasnick have actually rebuilt a program here at EMU.

Brady Hoke at Ball St
(Though opposite trend at UMich)

(08-18-2016 05:01 PM)KPJ Wrote:  You're the AD. How would you handle the coaching situation in the following scenarios?

1) EMU Football wins 3 games or less this season.

2) EMU wins 6 games or more this season and makes a bowl.

3) EMU Men's basketball wins 24 games and makes the NCAA tournament.

Great question KJP, I would expect that

1) Creighton stays. It would be another loooong off season, probably a whole new staff and more grumbling from the media, but I don't see him going.

2) Creighton stays. Will need 7 wins, I believe, to reach a bowl (expecting that we'll beat MVSU, and they aren't FBS and don't count toward bowl eligibility). That would be HUGE for the program and Creighton, but unlikely to make too big of a jump after only ~9 D1 wins in 3 years.

3) Murphy will be out. After 5 relatively successful years, capping with a big year and a trip to the dance will be enough to get him to the association or a rebuilding P5 job.

Great question, thanks for encouraging the thought.

One FCS win would count toward bowl eligibility. Only one though, which is why we didn't get it in 2011 when we beat 2 FCS teams.