$20M

The schools will not want to take it to court, with the delays that would cause and bad press. They'll grit their teeth and bare it. It'll be peanuts compared to the increased revenue over 10 years.

(08-18-2016 03:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Regardless, there will be a buyout. No AAC team added is going to wait 27mo. It'll cost them dearly ... and they'll pay without hesitation to escape the G5.

Depends on what "dearly" means.

West Virginia piledrivered the old Big East bylaws and left with zero notice, paid $20M, based on a $5M exit fee with 27 months.

Syracuse and Pitt paid $7.5M each, with one year's notice, based on the $5M exit fee.

Louisville and Rutgers both paid about $11M with one year's notice, based on the $10M exit fee.

If they're leaving with a year's notice, I expect they'd pay the $10M and not much more. If they're leaving immediately, maybe $15M?

EDIT: I still think that the AAC is operating under new bylaws--the old Big East bylaws were written for a very different group of schools, with different issues etc. I'd be surprised if the 27 month waiting period was even still on the books in its original form.

Because these things all happened at different times, I think the best way to couch it is how early a team left, not how many years notice they gave.

Syr, Pitt, RU and Louisville should have had two more Big East seasons after they announced they were leaving and only played one. so, they basically payed 1.5X the exit fee to leave one year early. WVU should have head two years left and didn't play any,so they paid at least 2X the exit fee.

If the AAC is set up the way the Big East was, any AAC teams announcing a B12 move this fall should pay:

2X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2017
1.5X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2018
1X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2019

Unless the rules have changed, it makes sense any moves would happen quick because you don't save that much by waiting anyway.

$20M to leave a conference that pays $1.8M a year seems a bit much.

(08-18-2016 02:21 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  One wva tweet says Cincy has already agreed to a gor with the b12

I've heard similar whispers

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

$20 million seems a bit excessive for a league that doesn't even pay $2 million in TV revenue. Bill them $12-$14 million for the early exit and call it a day.

(08-18-2016 07:43 PM)TripleA Wrote:  $20M to leave a conference that pays $1.8M a year seems a bit much.

Agreed. Even the $10M might be vulnerable in court, if a school wanted to fight it. (But they'll be on their way to the P5, so they won't bother.)

(08-18-2016 05:30 PM)krup Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 03:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Regardless, there will be a buyout. No AAC team added is going to wait 27mo. It'll cost them dearly ... and they'll pay without hesitation to escape the G5.

Depends on what "dearly" means.

West Virginia piledrivered the old Big East bylaws and left with zero notice, paid $20M, based on a $5M exit fee with 27 months.

Syracuse and Pitt paid $7.5M each, with one year's notice, based on the $5M exit fee.

Louisville and Rutgers both paid about $11M with one year's notice, based on the $10M exit fee.

If they're leaving with a year's notice, I expect they'd pay the $10M and not much more. If they're leaving immediately, maybe $15M?

EDIT: I still think that the AAC is operating under new bylaws--the old Big East bylaws were written for a very different group of schools, with different issues etc. I'd be surprised if the 27 month waiting period was even still on the books in its original form.

Because these things all happened at different times, I think the best way to couch it is how early a team left, not how many years notice they gave.

Syr, Pitt, RU and Louisville should have had two more Big East seasons after they announced they were leaving and only played one. so, they basically payed 1.5X the exit fee to leave one year early. WVU should have head two years left and didn't play any,so they paid at least 2X the exit fee.

If the AAC is set up the way the Big East was, any AAC teams announcing a B12 move this fall should pay:

2X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2017
1.5X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2018
1X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2019

Unless the rules have changed, it makes sense any moves would happen quick because you don't save that much by waiting anyway.

This is not correct about Louisville. Tom Jurich gave the Big East official notice of their intention to leave on October 13, 2011, over a year before they were invited to the ACC (which took some balls). We stayed until June 30, 2014. That's more than 27 months notice. Plus we paid our buyout and left all our basketball credits behind. Pretty sure we were more than fair in our exit.

(08-18-2016 08:16 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 05:30 PM)krup Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 03:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Regardless, there will be a buyout. No AAC team added is going to wait 27mo. It'll cost them dearly ... and they'll pay without hesitation to escape the G5.

Depends on what "dearly" means.

West Virginia piledrivered the old Big East bylaws and left with zero notice, paid $20M, based on a $5M exit fee with 27 months.

Syracuse and Pitt paid $7.5M each, with one year's notice, based on the $5M exit fee.

Louisville and Rutgers both paid about $11M with one year's notice, based on the $10M exit fee.

If they're leaving with a year's notice, I expect they'd pay the $10M and not much more. If they're leaving immediately, maybe $15M?

EDIT: I still think that the AAC is operating under new bylaws--the old Big East bylaws were written for a very different group of schools, with different issues etc. I'd be surprised if the 27 month waiting period was even still on the books in its original form.

Because these things all happened at different times, I think the best way to couch it is how early a team left, not how many years notice they gave.

Syr, Pitt, RU and Louisville should have had two more Big East seasons after they announced they were leaving and only played one. so, they basically payed 1.5X the exit fee to leave one year early. WVU should have head two years left and didn't play any,so they paid at least 2X the exit fee.

If the AAC is set up the way the Big East was, any AAC teams announcing a B12 move this fall should pay:

2X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2017
1.5X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2018
1X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2019

Unless the rules have changed, it makes sense any moves would happen quick because you don't save that much by waiting anyway.

This is not correct about Louisville. Tom Jurich gave the Big East official notice of their intention to leave on October 13, 2011, over a year before they were invited to the ACC (which took some balls). We stayed until June 30, 2014. That's more than 27 months notice. Plus we paid our buyout and left all our basketball credits behind. Pretty sure we were more than fair in our exit.

Are you aware no one in the Big East took that notice even remotely seriously? "Oh you're leaving? Where may I ask you're going?" - is what was likely said in return.

(08-18-2016 08:42 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 08:16 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 05:30 PM)krup Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 03:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Regardless, there will be a buyout. No AAC team added is going to wait 27mo. It'll cost them dearly ... and they'll pay without hesitation to escape the G5.

Depends on what "dearly" means.

West Virginia piledrivered the old Big East bylaws and left with zero notice, paid $20M, based on a $5M exit fee with 27 months.

Syracuse and Pitt paid $7.5M each, with one year's notice, based on the $5M exit fee.

Louisville and Rutgers both paid about $11M with one year's notice, based on the $10M exit fee.

If they're leaving with a year's notice, I expect they'd pay the $10M and not much more. If they're leaving immediately, maybe $15M?

EDIT: I still think that the AAC is operating under new bylaws--the old Big East bylaws were written for a very different group of schools, with different issues etc. I'd be surprised if the 27 month waiting period was even still on the books in its original form.

Because these things all happened at different times, I think the best way to couch it is how early a team left, not how many years notice they gave.

Syr, Pitt, RU and Louisville should have had two more Big East seasons after they announced they were leaving and only played one. so, they basically payed 1.5X the exit fee to leave one year early. WVU should have head two years left and didn't play any,so they paid at least 2X the exit fee.

If the AAC is set up the way the Big East was, any AAC teams announcing a B12 move this fall should pay:

2X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2017
1.5X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2018
1X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2019

Unless the rules have changed, it makes sense any moves would happen quick because you don't save that much by waiting anyway.

This is not correct about Louisville. Tom Jurich gave the Big East official notice of their intention to leave on October 13, 2011, over a year before they were invited to the ACC (which took some balls). We stayed until June 30, 2014. That's more than 27 months notice. Plus we paid our buyout and left all our basketball credits behind. Pretty sure we were more than fair in our exit.

Are you aware no one in the Big East took that notice even remotely seriously? "Oh you're leaving? Where may I ask you're going?" - is what was likely said in return.

It doesn't matter what message board posters think, you weren't privy to the conversations. The commissioner definitely took it seriously, and he acknowledged Louisville gave notice in Oct 2011 and allowed the negotiation of lower exit fees without issue.

(08-18-2016 08:16 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 05:30 PM)krup Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 03:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Regardless, there will be a buyout. No AAC team added is going to wait 27mo. It'll cost them dearly ... and they'll pay without hesitation to escape the G5.

Depends on what "dearly" means.

West Virginia piledrivered the old Big East bylaws and left with zero notice, paid $20M, based on a $5M exit fee with 27 months.

Syracuse and Pitt paid $7.5M each, with one year's notice, based on the $5M exit fee.

Louisville and Rutgers both paid about $11M with one year's notice, based on the $10M exit fee.

If they're leaving with a year's notice, I expect they'd pay the $10M and not much more. If they're leaving immediately, maybe $15M?

EDIT: I still think that the AAC is operating under new bylaws--the old Big East bylaws were written for a very different group of schools, with different issues etc. I'd be surprised if the 27 month waiting period was even still on the books in its original form.

Because these things all happened at different times, I think the best way to couch it is how early a team left, not how many years notice they gave.

Syr, Pitt, RU and Louisville should have had two more Big East seasons after they announced they were leaving and only played one. so, they basically payed 1.5X the exit fee to leave one year early. WVU should have head two years left and didn't play any,so they paid at least 2X the exit fee.

If the AAC is set up the way the Big East was, any AAC teams announcing a B12 move this fall should pay:

2X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2017
1.5X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2018
1X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2019

Unless the rules have changed, it makes sense any moves would happen quick because you don't save that much by waiting anyway.

This is not correct about Louisville. Tom Jurich gave the Big East official notice of their intention to leave on October 13, 2011, over a year before they were invited to the ACC (which took some balls). We stayed until June 30, 2014. That's more than 27 months notice. Plus we paid our buyout and left all our basketball credits behind. Pretty sure we were more than fair in our exit.

Under the Big East Bylaws, a notice of withdrawal had to be in writing, specifiy the date of withdrawal, and be accompanied by a $2.5M check.

And on top of that, an October 2011 notice of withdrawal would have meant a $5M exit fee, not the $10M plus that Louisville actually paid.

So the "we actually gave a double-secret notice of withdrawal" thing is just propaganda.

That's fine, I'll stick with the information reported by multiple reputable news outlets instead of believing speculation, or as you call it, "propaganda".

(08-18-2016 09:00 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 08:42 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 08:16 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 05:30 PM)krup Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 03:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Depends on what "dearly" means.

West Virginia piledrivered the old Big East bylaws and left with zero notice, paid $20M, based on a $5M exit fee with 27 months.

Syracuse and Pitt paid $7.5M each, with one year's notice, based on the $5M exit fee.

Louisville and Rutgers both paid about $11M with one year's notice, based on the $10M exit fee.

If they're leaving with a year's notice, I expect they'd pay the $10M and not much more. If they're leaving immediately, maybe $15M?

EDIT: I still think that the AAC is operating under new bylaws--the old Big East bylaws were written for a very different group of schools, with different issues etc. I'd be surprised if the 27 month waiting period was even still on the books in its original form.

Because these things all happened at different times, I think the best way to couch it is how early a team left, not how many years notice they gave.

Syr, Pitt, RU and Louisville should have had two more Big East seasons after they announced they were leaving and only played one. so, they basically payed 1.5X the exit fee to leave one year early. WVU should have head two years left and didn't play any,so they paid at least 2X the exit fee.

If the AAC is set up the way the Big East was, any AAC teams announcing a B12 move this fall should pay:

2X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2017
1.5X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2018
1X the exit fee to start with the B12 in 2019

Unless the rules have changed, it makes sense any moves would happen quick because you don't save that much by waiting anyway.

This is not correct about Louisville. Tom Jurich gave the Big East official notice of their intention to leave on October 13, 2011, over a year before they were invited to the ACC (which took some balls). We stayed until June 30, 2014. That's more than 27 months notice. Plus we paid our buyout and left all our basketball credits behind. Pretty sure we were more than fair in our exit.

Are you aware no one in the Big East took that notice even remotely seriously? "Oh you're leaving? Where may I ask you're going?" - is what was likely said in return.

It doesn't matter what message board posters think, you weren't privy to the conversations. The commissioner definitely took it seriously, and he acknowledged Louisville gave notice in Oct 2011 and allowed the negotiation of lower exit fees without issue.

Not in 2011 he didn't. No one did, because you had nowhere to go.

(08-18-2016 09:13 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  That's fine, I'll stick with the information reported by multiple reputable news outlets instead of believing speculation, or as you call it, "propaganda".

Those "reputable news outlets" as you call it took it even less seriously than the Big East did. The only reason these "reputable news outlets" mentioned your double secret notification of withdrawal is because your AD wouldn't shut up about it.

(08-18-2016 02:29 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:08 PM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  I have a question for the people who follow this guy, what has he ever tweeted that has been confirmed to be correct by actual facts provided by the Big12? Before you say he was the one who argued expansion was still alive when everyone else (including Bowlsby) said it was dead, you can argue that this became true more as a byproduct of the announcement of the ACC network then him having any inside information.

Even with that what news has this guy broke that has proven to be factual?

I only ask because I don't follow him but according to a number of posters on here he is the only guy who is getting actual real information and knows what he is talking about.

well, this was on July 13
@C_Austin_Cox
If everything plays out as anticipated. We'll get word on expansion July 19th (Day 2 of Media Days) and then the teams announced in mid-Sept


This was on July 5
@C_Austin_Cox
Stop me if you've heard this one: Big 12 could announce expansion plans at Media Days. No word yet. #DejaVu


This was May 2
@C_Austin_Cox
Told #Cincinnati and #Memphis fans to start paying attention last week. This lines up w/ Big 12 Media Days in July.


This was April 26
@C_Austin_Cox
Mark your calendars: Big 12 will announce expansion plans the week of Media Days this July. OU's David Boren is getting his way. (UC/UM)

So See Austin Cox is an uninformed idiot. right?

To get back to the OP, how could any "insider" have real information? It seems like the Big 12 doesn't even know what it's doing.

(08-18-2016 02:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  C. Austin Cox? Is that Stone Cold's porn name?

You won the internet yesterday

(08-18-2016 03:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  EDIT: I still think that the AAC is operating under new bylaws--the old Big East bylaws were written for a very different group of schools, with different issues etc. I'd be surprised if the 27 month waiting period was even still on the books in its original form.

I agree with the last part. As most of the teams in the AAC had eyes on being in power leagues in the future, ESPECIALLY the original members who were in power, I doubt there is a 27 month waiting period.

(08-18-2016 03:45 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  $20M

The schools will not want to take it to court, with the delays that would cause and bad press. They'll grit their teeth and bare it. It'll be peanuts compared to the increased revenue over 10 years.

There is ample proof the league would settle and not take it to court. Not the other way around. In fact, only one of the teams who left the Big East, one out of 15 might I add, even ever got a court date, and it was settled out of court. 15 total teams left, none stayed 27 months, 8 never paid an exit fee, and only one paid an amount anywhere near double the listed fee. Anything can happen, but history doesn't support your stance. The only way anyone pays that much, is if they try to leave in time for the 2017 season, which I don't remotely see likely at this point.

(08-18-2016 05:30 PM)krup Wrote:  Syr, Pitt, RU and Louisville should have had two more Big East seasons after they announced they were leaving and only played one. so, they basically payed 1.5X the exit fee to leave one year early. WVU should have head two years left and didn't play any,so they paid at least 2X the exit fee.

Just some notes here, Syr and Pitt paid 1.5x the fee, Louisville and Rutgers paid 1.1X the fee, and WVU paid 4X the fee, plus had their last distribution withheld.

(08-18-2016 09:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  [quote='TopperCard' pid='13483961' dateline='1471569379']

This is not correct about Louisville. Tom Jurich gave the Big East official notice of their intention to leave on October 13, 2011, over a year before they were invited to the ACC (which took some balls). We stayed until June 30, 2014. That's more than 27 months notice. Plus we paid our buyout and left all our basketball credits behind. Pretty sure we were more than fair in our exit.

Under the Big East Bylaws, a notice of withdrawal had to be in writing, specifiy the date of withdrawal, and be accompanied by a $2.5M check.

And on top of that, an October 2011 notice of withdrawal would have meant a $5M exit fee, not the $10M plus that Louisville actually paid.

So the "we actually gave a double-secret notice of withdrawal" thing is just propaganda.
[/quote]

AD saves Louisville $4 million

ESPN Wrote:Even without an invitation to join another conference in 2011, Louisville athletic director Tom Jurich took a huge gamble by giving a 27-month notice to Big East Conference officials that the Cardinals would leave.

Jurich's gamble paid off Wednesday, saving the school $4 million, when the American Athletic Conference, formerly the Big East, reached an agreement for Louisville to join the Atlantic Coast Conference on July 1, 2014.

Louisville agreed to pay $11 million to The American, instead of the $15 million the conference sought.

The university was able to negotiate a lower amount because Jurich, as required by the league's bylaws, informed then-Big East commissioner John Marinatto and South Florida president Judy Genshaft in October 2011 that the Cardinals would leave the league in 27 months, Marinatto said.

SB Nation Wrote:onference realignment was all the rage last year, leaving conferences jumbled and schools scrambling to pay buyout fees. One such school was Louisville, who left the Big East (currently the American Athletic Conference) for the Atlantic Coast Conference. As we learned today, however, it wasn't so simple -- the Cardinals actually told the Big East they were leaving before they received an invite from a new conference.

Athletic director Tom Jurich gave the conference notice 27 months before the move -- that's back in October 2011, for those counting -- which will save the school $4 million, bumping the fee from $15 million to $11 million. Louisville was originally planning on joining the Big 12.

The Big East attempted to convince Jurich to stay, but ultimately settled on convincing him not to submit a formal withdrawal letter, for fear of the news leaking out. Louisville told athletic directors of the other Big East schools of the move, and the Cardinals received an official invite from the ACC in November.


[quote=DefCONNOne]Not in 2011 he didn't. No one did, because you had nowhere to go.

DefCONNOne, shut it. Again, proving lack of knowledge on a subject you still choose to speak upon. Unless of course ESPN is not a trustworthy source.
As a matter of fact, there was even a thread on THIS website about it when it came out.

Big East Committed Fraud

It was stared by our very own Cougar Red. His post:

(11-13-2013 04:14 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  Jurich gives notice in October of 2011. He says even if the Big 12 chooses West Virginia, Louisville will leave in 2014.

Marinatto and Genshaft try to change his mind and cannot. So they ask him NOT to file a written notice as it would be discoverable under FOIA. They worried what the disclosure would do to the Big East's stability.

Jurich agrees, but verbally tells other current Big East ADs

Two months later, like 5 bumps on a log, Houston, UCF, SMU, Boise and SDSU accept an invitation to join the Big East.

IF WE DID NOT KNOW THAT:

1. Louisville was leaving, and
2. All the other Big East schools KNEW that Louisville was leaving

I'm not sure we would have signed an agreement that looked like this:

1. Entry fee of $2.5M
2. $5M exit fee if we did not join the Big East by July 2013
3. $10M exit fee once we joined the league officially

Hell, the Big East needed us to survive at that point. Plus, we were obviously under a false impression of the TV value of the league. And a false impression of the stability of the league.

We could have negotiated a sweetheart deal had we known all the facts, including:

1. A much smaller entry fee, and
2. A lion's share of the Big East exit fees from schools like WVa, Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville.

So again, shut it.

(08-18-2016 03:09 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:56 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:54 PM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:29 PM)TigersOhMy Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 02:08 PM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  I have a question for the people who follow this guy, what has he ever tweeted that has been confirmed to be correct by actual facts provided by the Big12? Before you say he was the one who argued expansion was still alive when everyone else (including Bowlsby) said it was dead, you can argue that this became true more as a byproduct of the announcement of the ACC network then him having any inside information.

Even with that what news has this guy broke that has proven to be factual?

I only ask because I don't follow him but according to a number of posters on here he is the only guy who is getting actual real information and knows what he is talking about.

well, this was on July 13
@C_Austin_Cox
If everything plays out as anticipated. We'll get word on expansion July 19th (Day 2 of Media Days) and then the teams announced in mid-Sept


This was on July 5
@C_Austin_Cox
Stop me if you've heard this one: Big 12 could announce expansion plans at Media Days. No word yet. #DejaVu


This was May 2
@C_Austin_Cox
Told #Cincinnati and #Memphis fans to start paying attention last week. This lines up w/ Big 12 Media Days in July.


This was April 26
@C_Austin_Cox
Mark your calendars: Big 12 will announce expansion plans the week of Media Days this July. OU's David Boren is getting his way. (UC/UM)

Is this not the same tweet 4 times? The Big12 will announce expansion on the media day.

Again, we can debate if this was a byproduct of the agreement of the creation of the AAC network or not, but show me one other tweet where information he broke has actually turned out to be true.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t follow him or anyone else on Twitter and he may have provided many insights that have proven to be true, and if he has I have no issue agreeing that he has real inside information, just so far I haven't seen evidence of it.

It is the same tweet, but it shows he consistently maintained for months that they would announce on a specific (accurate) day.

So, basically, all he has said is that in his opinion the Big 12 will announce some undefined plan on the day they set aside to speak directly to the media. And, when that day came, they said they will decide at some later date. This isn't exactly Nostradamus here.

I'm not saying he's wrong now. But there's no reason to assume he has any special insight or credible source. He's just like any one of the millions of sports fans who have a computer and enjoy guessing about future events.

I don't know if this guy knows something or is just a good guesser. At one point he tweeted he had a FOX contact, but it's since been deleted (I couldn't find it anyway.). If he is guessing, then he's been pretty good at it as those first tweets were long b/f the ACC network news broke or the July media day press conference announcement was released. Back in April and May, most media were focused on the late May/June Big 12 meetings. At that time most came away from those meetings with the notion that expansion was dead even dismissing the July meetings as meaningless (for expansion purposes). His Sept. team announcement timeline also coincides with Boren's initial timeframe (Sept/Oct) IIRC. Again, I don't know if he is plugged in or not, but he did at least get one thing right and hasn't changed his stance for months. Time will tell. He'll either be congratulated or crucified.

I don't see why they wouldn't go for 2017.

(08-19-2016 04:10 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I don't see why they wouldn't go for 2017.

Most obvious would be issues in rescheduling.

When the Big 12 last invited members, they were replacing teams, which meant both that a format and infrastructure for that many teams was already there, AND they had a desperate need to have them then. This time they would not.

Now I do realize the SEC pulled off such an expansion in less than a year, I think from October invites to joining the next year, but that is about the only expansion since realignment came back into being in 2010 that happened that fast