(09-01-2016 08:59 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 08:51 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Let's go Sooners! I would looooooooove to see UH get smacked just to take the edge off some of their fans' newfound arrogance.

Newfound? I cannot remember a time when they were not arrogant.

Memphis not making the cut was pretty amusing. It would be absolutely hilarious if Rice makes the next cut and UH doesn't. Watching the local news these days is disgusting. Unfortunately I don't see that happening.

(09-01-2016 08:12 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:30 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  More positive:

@McClain_on_NFL: RT @randyharvey: Not saying Rice over UH. Just that Rice with +revenue could produce Stanford model that would be advantageous for any conference.

Solid comment. First everyone would love to have Stanford in their conference and second the UH financial situation should scare potential suitors. Tillman isn't T. Boone Pickens and an endowment of $780M doesn't suggest long term stability. There will be more and more push back from the academic side and the students the more they are "asked" to contribute to athletics. At some point they will need to pass the collection plate around at games.

Harvey is the sports editor for the Chronicle, who spent a lot of time out in California as a sports writer. He is familiar with the Stanford model and all that it offers. Of course, that is exactly what we aspire to emulate in our athletic program. The "Rice + revenue = Texas Stanford" theme/equation should be our mantra in this process. No other school in the running can offer that.

Again, its a long shot for Rice to get to the Big 12, but the fact that we've made it this far is encouraging, and shows what our Athletic Department is doing for us behind the scenes. Its been great to be part of the discussions, and getting mentioned in a positive light. I had a feeling that something was up when the "Fear the Talons" website and hashtag popped up recently promoting the school's athletic achievements and athletic strengths. A good idea regardless, but the timing was interesting, to say the least.

Moving forward, from what I understand, over the next couple of weeks, we, along with the other final schools, will be making in person presentations to Big 12 officials next week in Dallas. Obviously, Dr. K has some connection to Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby, but so do others, and that will only get us so far. I don't know if ADs are involved in the process, but there is one with a vote who knows Rice intimately, and that's Chris Del Conte at TCU. I would imagine CDC left on good terms when he went to TCU, and he was AD at the time of the New Orleans Bowl, and, more importantly, the Texas Bowl (packed house at Reliant to see a good Rice team in a bowl game). CDC has seen the best of Rice, and what Rice can offer, but he also knows what roadblocks the AD may face in trying to move up in the collegiate pecking order. Now, I would imagine that some of that institutional inertia has been removed, given that Rice has recently spent well over $100 million in facility improvements (including Tudor, which was CDC's pet project, and the construction of the Patterson). But it will be interesting to see how CDC's experiences/knowledge at Rice play into this process, if at all.

Of course, the great unknown, as it was about 22 years ago, will be the possible impact of Texas politics. Obviously, UH has been playing the political game for a while now, as has SMU to a certain extent. Does Rice have a champion out there?

(09-01-2016 09:22 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 08:12 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:30 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  More positive:

@McClain_on_NFL: RT @randyharvey: Not saying Rice over UH. Just that Rice with +revenue could produce Stanford model that would be advantageous for any conference.

Solid comment. First everyone would love to have Stanford in their conference and second the UH financial situation should scare potential suitors. Tillman isn't T. Boone Pickens and an endowment of $780M doesn't suggest long term stability. There will be more and more push back from the academic side and the students the more they are "asked" to contribute to athletics. At some point they will need to pass the collection plate around at games.

Harvey is the sports editor for the Chronicle, who spent a lot of time out in California as a sports writer. He is familiar with the Stanford model and all that it offers. Of course, that is exactly what we aspire to emulate in our athletic program. The "Rice + revenue = Texas Stanford" theme/equation should be our mantra in this process. No other school in the running can offer that.

Again, its a long shot for Rice to get to the Big 12, but the fact that we've made it this far is encouraging, and shows what our Athletic Department is doing for us behind the scenes. Its been great to be part of the discussions, and getting mentioned in a positive light. I had a feeling that something was up when the "Fear the Talons" website and hashtag popped up recently promoting the school's athletic achievements and athletic strengths. A good idea regardless, but the timing was interesting, to say the least.

Moving forward, from what I understand, over the next couple of weeks, we, along with the other final schools, will be making in person presentations to Big 12 officials next week in Dallas. Obviously, Dr. K has some connection to Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby, but so do others, and that will only get us so far. I don't know if ADs are involved in the process, but there is one with a vote who knows Rice intimately, and that's Chris Del Conte at TCU. I would imagine CDC left on good terms when he went to TCU, and he was AD at the time of the New Orleans Bowl, and, more importantly, the Texas Bowl (packed house at Reliant to see a good Rice team in a bowl game). CDC has seen the best of Rice, and what Rice can offer, but he also knows what roadblocks the AD may face in trying to move up in the collegiate pecking order. Now, I would imagine that some of that institutional inertia has been removed, given that Rice has recently spent well over $100 million in facility improvements (including Tudor, which was CDC's pet project, and the construction of the Patterson). But it will be interesting to see how CDC's experiences/knowledge at Rice play into this process, if at all.

Of course, the great unknown, as it was about 22 years ago, will be the possible impact of Texas politics. Obviously, UH has been playing the political game for a while now, as has SMU to a certain extent. Does Rice have a champion out there?

I think the fear the talons website is great but is directed towards the AAC. And unfortunately I don't think we have much if any political swing. Maybe if George P Bush said something his name would have some pull lol

(09-01-2016 09:20 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  Memphis not making the cut was pretty amusing. It would be absolutely hilarious if Rice makes the next cut and UH doesn't. Watching the local news these days is disgusting. Unfortunately I don't see that happening.

Have you seen anything definitive on Memphis being out? The ESPN article had them as a possible 13th ("ESPN could not confirm whether Memphis, which was also under consideration by the league, made the cut"), and the Memphis newspaper had them in.

(09-01-2016 09:39 AM)erice Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 09:20 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  Memphis not making the cut was pretty amusing. It would be absolutely hilarious if Rice makes the next cut and UH doesn't. Watching the local news these days is disgusting. Unfortunately I don't see that happening.

Have you seen anything definitive on Memphis being out? The ESPN article had them as a possible 13th ("ESPN could not confirm whether Memphis, which was also under consideration by the league, made the cut"), and the Memphis newspaper had them in.

No but it would be strange they're the only ones ESPN can't confirm.

(09-01-2016 09:36 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 09:22 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 08:12 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:30 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  More positive:

@McClain_on_NFL: RT @randyharvey: Not saying Rice over UH. Just that Rice with +revenue could produce Stanford model that would be advantageous for any conference.

Solid comment. First everyone would love to have Stanford in their conference and second the UH financial situation should scare potential suitors. Tillman isn't T. Boone Pickens and an endowment of $780M doesn't suggest long term stability. There will be more and more push back from the academic side and the students the more they are "asked" to contribute to athletics. At some point they will need to pass the collection plate around at games.

Harvey is the sports editor for the Chronicle, who spent a lot of time out in California as a sports writer. He is familiar with the Stanford model and all that it offers. Of course, that is exactly what we aspire to emulate in our athletic program. The "Rice + revenue = Texas Stanford" theme/equation should be our mantra in this process. No other school in the running can offer that.

Again, its a long shot for Rice to get to the Big 12, but the fact that we've made it this far is encouraging, and shows what our Athletic Department is doing for us behind the scenes. Its been great to be part of the discussions, and getting mentioned in a positive light. I had a feeling that something was up when the "Fear the Talons" website and hashtag popped up recently promoting the school's athletic achievements and athletic strengths. A good idea regardless, but the timing was interesting, to say the least.

Moving forward, from what I understand, over the next couple of weeks, we, along with the other final schools, will be making in person presentations to Big 12 officials next week in Dallas. Obviously, Dr. K has some connection to Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby, but so do others, and that will only get us so far. I don't know if ADs are involved in the process, but there is one with a vote who knows Rice intimately, and that's Chris Del Conte at TCU. I would imagine CDC left on good terms when he went to TCU, and he was AD at the time of the New Orleans Bowl, and, more importantly, the Texas Bowl (packed house at Reliant to see a good Rice team in a bowl game). CDC has seen the best of Rice, and what Rice can offer, but he also knows what roadblocks the AD may face in trying to move up in the collegiate pecking order. Now, I would imagine that some of that institutional inertia has been removed, given that Rice has recently spent well over $100 million in facility improvements (including Tudor, which was CDC's pet project, and the construction of the Patterson). But it will be interesting to see how CDC's experiences/knowledge at Rice play into this process, if at all.

Of course, the great unknown, as it was about 22 years ago, will be the possible impact of Texas politics. Obviously, UH has been playing the political game for a while now, as has SMU to a certain extent. Does Rice have a champion out there?

I think the fear the talons website is great but is directed towards the AAC. And unfortunately I don't think we have much if any political swing. Maybe if George P Bush said something his name would have some pull lol

I don't think that the "Fear the Talons" was related solely to the Big 12. My impression was that the timing of its release coincided with Rice's continued marketing of itself to other conferences, including the Big 12 and AAC. I believed that if we thought moving conferences was a non-starter, we wouldn't have debuted the website midway through the process. Since we did, we obviously believed there was some value in marketing the school/program.

That being said, the "Fear the Talons" website and hashtag is one fine looking sandwich board, isn't it?

Jim Bridenstine can have our backs with the Oklahoma schools, haha.

(09-01-2016 09:36 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 09:22 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 08:12 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(08-31-2016 11:30 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  More positive:

@McClain_on_NFL: RT @randyharvey: Not saying Rice over UH. Just that Rice with +revenue could produce Stanford model that would be advantageous for any conference.

Solid comment. First everyone would love to have Stanford in their conference and second the UH financial situation should scare potential suitors. Tillman isn't T. Boone Pickens and an endowment of $780M doesn't suggest long term stability. There will be more and more push back from the academic side and the students the more they are "asked" to contribute to athletics. At some point they will need to pass the collection plate around at games.

Harvey is the sports editor for the Chronicle, who spent a lot of time out in California as a sports writer. He is familiar with the Stanford model and all that it offers. Of course, that is exactly what we aspire to emulate in our athletic program. The "Rice + revenue = Texas Stanford" theme/equation should be our mantra in this process. No other school in the running can offer that.

Again, its a long shot for Rice to get to the Big 12, but the fact that we've made it this far is encouraging, and shows what our Athletic Department is doing for us behind the scenes. Its been great to be part of the discussions, and getting mentioned in a positive light. I had a feeling that something was up when the "Fear the Talons" website and hashtag popped up recently promoting the school's athletic achievements and athletic strengths. A good idea regardless, but the timing was interesting, to say the least.

Moving forward, from what I understand, over the next couple of weeks, we, along with the other final schools, will be making in person presentations to Big 12 officials next week in Dallas. Obviously, Dr. K has some connection to Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby, but so do others, and that will only get us so far. I don't know if ADs are involved in the process, but there is one with a vote who knows Rice intimately, and that's Chris Del Conte at TCU. I would imagine CDC left on good terms when he went to TCU, and he was AD at the time of the New Orleans Bowl, and, more importantly, the Texas Bowl (packed house at Reliant to see a good Rice team in a bowl game). CDC has seen the best of Rice, and what Rice can offer, but he also knows what roadblocks the AD may face in trying to move up in the collegiate pecking order. Now, I would imagine that some of that institutional inertia has been removed, given that Rice has recently spent well over $100 million in facility improvements (including Tudor, which was CDC's pet project, and the construction of the Patterson). But it will be interesting to see how CDC's experiences/knowledge at Rice play into this process, if at all.

Of course, the great unknown, as it was about 22 years ago, will be the possible impact of Texas politics. Obviously, UH has been playing the political game for a while now, as has SMU to a certain extent. Does Rice have a champion out there?

I think the fear the talons website is great but is directed towards the AAC. And unfortunately I don't think we have much if any political swing. Maybe if George P Bush said something his name would have some pull lol

It would most likely generate a headline or two, and some retweets.

The fact that the tweet also included Baylor die hard John McClain was also a positive.

Memphis does indeed remain a candidate according to some reports today.

Thoughts:

Two teams in Houston make the cut. Is there a scenario where both Rice and UH make it? How sweet would it be for Rice to get picked instead of UH? The fact that we're still in tells me they recognize Rice and UH offer two different things.

Does this mean we beat out Boise?

Rice certainly has it's drawbacks, but I don't see any other school on the list that offers what Rice does. Tulane is the most similar, I guess. SMU's history of NCAA violations can't seem that attractive to the Big 12. Schools like Memphis, UConn, Cinci are generic state schools in OK markets, and they have very good basketball and large athletic programs. UH has a lot going for it, including location and recent success/potential, but some of the concerns with them have been raised on this thread. UCF/USF are also big state schools, without the elite basketball programs, but intriguing options if they really want a presence in Florida. And if they do, do they need just one team there, or is the Tampa/Orlando combo more attractive? I would like them to add: Rice, Tulane, Cinci, BYU. It would make more sense geographically (if that is even a concern...B12 might actually want to expand as far as possible), and I think both Tulane and Rice would become solid additions with the additional revenue.

All this makes tonight's game that much bigger. A win would be a big boost in perception and confidence for Rice. Likewise, a blowout loss could be a big blow. I see some momentum in Rice's favor re: Big 12 talks, let's keep it going!

This was reportedly overhead during the Big XII conference expansion meeting when officials from UT, Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU were explaining to the rest of the Big XII members why Rice made the cut:

I've said this for years: Rice has done the hard part--creating a premier academic university with an elite reputation. It's much harder to do that than to improve in athletics, even in football.

How many schools have become prominent in football or basketball, coming out of nowhere? It doesn't happen every year, but it happens. Boise State is an easy choice. Hell, even Florida State was nothing not that long ago. We see football fortunes rise and fall pretty routinely. UH is on the cover of Sports Illustrated now, but where was it 10 years ago?

In contrast, how often do schools enter or leave the top echelon in academics? The top 20 of USNWR's rankings might have some movement within the top 20, but it's not very often schools drop out or enter.

What I'm getting at: Rice already has a seat at the table when it comes to elite academics. That was the much harder task. The Big 12 (or any other conference) should know that Rice can improve its football fortunes relatively quickly, given enough opportunity, money, and a little luck.

But bringing in a Memphis, or even a UH--yes they're good in football now. But will they ever be elite academic institutions (and spare me the bogus Tier One business)? The answer: "not likely."

If the Big 12 is looking for good academics and good athletics, Rice is actually the more viable choice. You can improve athletics relatively quickly. You can't really improve academics.

I'm still perplexed as to why the Big12 is going through this process. There are only five real candidates, and the others have no chance at all. It's amateur hour. Shouldn't they already know who they want?

(09-01-2016 01:27 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I've said this for years: Rice has done the hard part--creating a premier academic university with an elite reputation. It's much harder to do that than to improve in athletics, even in football.

How many schools have become prominent in football or basketball, coming out of nowhere? It doesn't happen every year, but it happens. Boise State is an easy choice. Hell, even Florida State was nothing not that long ago. We see football fortunes rise and fall pretty routinely. UH is on the cover of Sports Illustrated now, but where was it 10 years ago?

In contrast, how often do schools enter or leave the top echelon in academics? The top 20 of USNWR's rankings might have some movement within the top 20, but it's not very often schools drop out or enter.

What I'm getting at: Rice already has a seat at the table when it comes to elite academics. That was the much harder task. The Big 12 (or any other conference) should know that Rice can improve its football fortunes relatively quickly, given enough opportunity, money, and a little luck.

But bringing in a Memphis, or even a UH--yes they're good in football now. But will they ever be elite academic institutions (and spare me the bogus Tier One business)? The answer: "not likely."

If the Big 12 is looking for good academics and good athletics, Rice is actually the more viable choice. You can improve athletics relatively quickly. You can't really improve academics.

You make a very good point here, Barrett. It is unlikely any new schools coming into the Big XII will immediately dominate the way TCU arguably has. More likely they fall down into the lower tier of that conference. So when that happens, it would be smart for them to look at what else they have besides recent football success.

Rice does offer them something far better than UH can or could. In fact, truth be told, the Big XII does not want a team like UH to come in and dominate in their conference because that would make the Big XII look really weak compared to the other P5s. Instead, they want schools that can be beatable, but not a perennial doormat.

Rice has the best argument in this important area, among the schools under consideration. The hump we need to get over is convincing them our admin is 100% behind sustaining and will remain so, expanding Rice's commitment to athletics in the future. The EZF thank goodness really helps show that finally, but we still need more. It would have really helped to have some basketball success before now, but hope that is on the way this season, both with men and women, for that matter. Rhoades definitely helps, as should Langley. We just need to commit to pay them when they are successful.

We need to state point blank that if Bailiff can't get it done on the football field this year in CUSA, then we are absolutely committed to cutting bait with him to move on and spending money on a new head football coach and staff at the upper P5 level until we do find a coach who can have that kind of on-filed football success Rice that is comparable to what any Big XII leader expects. That is the biggest missing question, I believe: if they let us in and we have the additional revenue, commit that will Rice spend all of it and a bit more to keep building athletics, and lay to rest the fear will we go back to pocketing it and cutting budgets as we did at the end of our SWC days (no thanks, Pres. Rupp.)

They know we'll need help filling our stadium, but the Big XII games will definitely do that for anyone they invite, especially in Houston. We need to be committed to spending the dollars to make HRS fully renovated and modern all the way around, not just in the End Zone, but press box, all bathrooms, new suites, top-flight concessions (even more than just announced), and we need to be able to work out solid parking and shuttle arrangements for football game-days with the Med Center so we don't piss off the neighborhood. Do those things and we should be in top 2 programs for them to invite.

Here's where UH was, and likely will go back to at least occasionally, by the way

Quote:According to an article in the September 12, 1986 issues of the Rice Thresher, Penthouse ranks Owls best of worst:

Rice is very surprisingly included in Larry Linderman’s 1986 list of the “20 Worst College Football Teams,” appearing in the October issue of Penthouse.

Columbia tops the list, followed by Kansas State, University of Texas-El Paso (“the NCAA’s own Bermuda triangle”), Northwestern, and Oregon State. The University of Houston ranks fifteenth worst. “It’s eminently possible for the Cougars to end up at the bottom of the conference this fall,” Penthouse reports.

Rice, however, ranked twentieth on the list—above UH. “Although I think the Owls will once again get stuffed this season, their days as a Southwest Conference doormat are coming to a close,” wrote Penthouse.

UH is riding high now. We should hammer the point home of how we'd look in comparison when they fall back down, which they inevitably will.

(09-01-2016 01:27 PM)Barrett Wrote:  UH is on the cover of Sports Illustrated now, but where was it 10 years ago?

I understand the point you were making, but probably not the best comparison. 10 years ago they won the C-USA championship and over the past 10 years, UH has more wins than any other non-P5 school save for Boise, TCU (since they were in G5 for most of that time), BYU and Cincy. UH may have had its crowning season over that run last year, but they've averaged nearly 9 wins per season over the last 10 seasons, which ranks 20th in the nation.

(09-01-2016 01:55 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Rice does offer them something far better than UH can or could. In fact, truth be told, the Big XII does not want a team like UH to come in and dominate in their conference because that would make the Big XII look really weak compared to the other P5s. Instead, they want schools that can be beatable, but not a perennial doormat.

To play devil's advocate, how would you foresee Rice not being a perennial doormat in football? I suppose we could beat Kansas, since we've done that twice recently, but I could very easily see our football team in the Big XII not record a conference win for a few seasons. Sure, the money from the Big XII may eventually make us more competitive, but since the Big XII seems intent on finding the cheapest date to the dance, I'm not sure how much money we'd be seeing in the first few years anyways.

(09-01-2016 12:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 11:31 AM)HHOOTter Wrote:  Ask urself this question:
Many Big 12 schools have recruiting concerns
IF Them Cougars get invite?
How many?
Answer:Over Half

But if the goal is 4 Big 12 to increase
Greater presence in Houston recruiting/media market
An offer to Rice over Houston
Is the better solution
Why?

Rice"s much higher academic admittance standards
Negate many recruiting concerns 4 most big 12 schools
Plus Rice has a very large and influential alumni base

Do Houston/BYU have the "votes" from the 8Dwarfs of the Big 12?
Perhaps best chance 4 Houston?
Rumor has it the "votes" are there 4 the Big 12 to dump Baylor
Won't happen
Texas and local politics won't let it happen
Plus Big 12 can't even impose its own probation restrictions on Baylor

Rice has a "very large" alumni base? You might want to research that.

I said the before. The recruiting issue for Houston is a red herring. Especially with respect to the northern non-Texas Big12 schools.

Here is the bottom line. Houston would be attractive to Houston recruits that want to stay near home. The northern schools never had a shot at those guys anyway.

The Houston recruits that want to leave home, but want to stay in state are also not going to go to Houston.

The Houston recruits that want to leave home---and would consider leaving the state are the ONLY group the northern Big12 teams would have a shot at and those guys were NEVER going to Houston anyway. The problem the Big12 has is a lot of those "willing to leave the state" recruits from the Houston area are heading to the SEC---not the Big12. SEC teams are playing games in the immediate Houston area on a regular basis in College Station and it is helping them to recruit the area.

So, adding Houston and playing regular games in the Houston area will actually HELP those northern Big12 teams recruit locally. The idea that Houston is going to steal recruits from Kansas is silly. Houston recruits looking to leave the state never had any intention of heading to UH. The reality? Houston is fishing in a different pool of recruits than the northern Big12 schools.

Attackcoog's points still work well for Rice being the "local" selection rather than UH. Rice offers most everything opportunity-wise that UH does with less than zero negative impact on any other Big XIII school's recruiting. And as posted above, Rice offers so much more than UH can or could in so many other areas.

If a solid 100% athletics commitment from the admin is demonstrated, Rice has the most upside of any on the list, especially for the Big XII. If we had made that commitment when we we asked to back in the 90's when Arkansas left the SWC for the SEC and they came calling for us, we'd be talking about playing our opening conference game tonight at Ole Miss or Alabama instead of WKU. Let's not make that same mistake again. Full throttle! Go Owls!

(09-01-2016 03:15 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 01:55 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Rice does offer them something far better than UH can or could. In fact, truth be told, the Big XII does not want a team like UH to come in and dominate in their conference because that would make the Big XII look really weak compared to the other P5s. Instead, they want schools that can be beatable, but not a perennial doormat.

To play devil's advocate, how would you foresee Rice not being a perennial doormat in football? I suppose we could beat Kansas, since we've done that twice recently, but I could very easily see our football team in the Big XII not record a conference win for a few seasons. Sure, the money from the Big XII may eventually make us more competitive, but since the Big XII seems intent on finding the cheapest date to the dance, I'm not sure how much money we'd be seeing in the first few years anyways.

To the extent Rice still acts like the Rice of the 80's and early 90's when the SWC was breaking up, we would be. That's in many ways still the perception, or at least the fear among the more serious athletic schools--that Rice isn't even interested in trying to be good at Div I big sport athletics.

If we commit that Rice will no longer let salary be a limiting factor when searching for new coaches, or in hanging on to successful ones we might want to keep around like we have in the past, and keep them on a short enough leash where we will never again let the losing or blow-outs get out of hand the way it has in our past, along with a commitment to spend to keep all our athletic facilities among at least the median of P5 levels if not the top, then I think we have more of a winner than we have had in years. Then we really do become more Stanford-like, or at least Northwestern-like, which is now acceptable (remember, Northwestern was far, far worse than Rice in the 80s- but they've done fine since.)

(09-01-2016 03:06 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 01:27 PM)Barrett Wrote:  UH is on the cover of Sports Illustrated now, but where was it 10 years ago?

I understand the point you were making, but probably not the best comparison. 10 years ago they won the C-USA championship and over the past 10 years, UH has more wins than any other non-P5 school save for Boise, TCU (since they were in G5 for most of that time), BYU and Cincy. UH may have had its crowning season over that run last year, but they've averaged nearly 9 wins per season over the last 10 seasons, which ranks 20th in the nation.

Crap, those pesky facts!!! You're right, I should have picked a better example; I was just too lazy to look . . .