It's also slightly more than just eyeballs watching that matter. The tv money comes from selling advertisements. Think of your typical college football game and the ads you see... beer, Hooters, more beer, Dr. Pepper (Big 12), etc... not exactly things Mormons buy.

It's why many bowl game organizers pass up the Blue Cougars. Sure, they bring a lot of fans, but they don't spend like other fanbases do.

I agree with wave, sadly we have to face the fact that we could loose two, this is why witchita makes so much sense.
Let them play fcs football for a few years and if they fill the stands and win consider them all sports.


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(08-11-2016 10:57 AM)CornellCoog Wrote:  It's also slightly more than just eyeballs watching that matter. The tv money comes from selling advertisements. Think of your typical college football game and the ads you see... beer, Hooters, more beer, Dr. Pepper (Big 12), etc... not exactly things Mormons buy.

It's why many bowl game organizers pass up the Blue Cougars. Sure, they bring a lot of fans, but they don't spend like other fanbases do.

Not sure thats true, i know what i have to spend with one wife. Cant imagine traveling with 4 or 5

(08-10-2016 09:01 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(08-10-2016 07:58 PM)e-parade Wrote:  

(08-10-2016 07:32 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(08-10-2016 06:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  The honor code itself isn't the issue. Mormon beliefs are not the issue. There are two things that cause BYU an issue:

1. BYU discriminates. All couples are banned from having sex before marriage, but heterosexual couples are allowed to hold hands and kiss on campus, and homosexual couples are not. That is one thing the LGBT groups give as an example. I'm sure there are others.

2. When a co-ed is raped at BYU, officials use the honor code to take action against her for having sex out of wedlock. Supposedly.

1. Private religious school that doesn't believe in homosexuality. Though you and I may disagree with BYU, they have every right to believe this and have an honor code banning things they disagree with. It's not discrimination because attendance is not mandatory, but voluntary. If you are student you AGREE TO THESE STANDARDS. Therefore when you violate said standards and punished it's not discrimination, you knowingly violated the very rules you agreed to in the first place. If you can't follow or agree to their code you are free to attend another school. This a basic concept, you're on private property not a state owned school, the same rules do not apply. This why single gender clubs, private universities, fitness centers are legal. They discriminate against the other gender through exclusion, but as they are a private organization operating on private property they can do this.

2. Citation needed, only one theoretical example can be found. But, was it the rape or the self admitted voluntary drug use before the alleged rape that got her expelled? This is unproven and you can't say she was kick out because of the rape, facts not in evidence. Even the rape is unproven. The only thing that is, is she admitted to voluntary taking drugs.

This could easily be viewed as she wasn't given a pass on the drug use because she was raped. While you and I may not agree with such a ruling, it would still be a valid expulsion and not a discriminatory act. But, because BYU's hands are tied in double knot legally, the details of the review of her honor code violation are a part of her personal file and they can't speak about or release it and they can't speak about pending legal cases because of privacy laws you only have her story. It's not for us to decide, but a court of law.

Being a little bit of a smartass here, but it's not that they don't believe in homosexuality, they recognize it exists but believe it to be a sin.


Also the honor code doesn't apply to just students. A gay coach needs to practice celibacy and cannot be married or will be fired. A straight coach can be married and have as much sex as they want with their husband/wife and be just fine. As of 6.25.2015 gay marriage is a protected right and legal in every state of the country.

BYU, as a private institution, can do whatever they want. It's based on their beliefs, and that's entirely fine for them to do. The LGBTQ community is bringing this up now (and why it's different this time than before, since it's only been 14 months) because BYU's honor code and beliefs are now "behind" the rest of the country, and they want to see if that matters enough or even at all to the Big 12. It might not matter to the Big 12 at all, and if they make that choice then it's fine for them to do. They're also a private organization (granted a private organization that has public institutions in it).


I'm not saying BYU should change, or even that the Big 12 should disqualify them from potential expansion. I'm just here explaining the position of the LGBTQ groups.

As a very progressive person from the state of Massachusetts, I would personally like the Big 12 to not invite them if they want to really put their money where their mouths are for each institution's stance...but hey, as Pope Francis said about homosexual people "who am I to judge?" - people will do what they want based on what's important to them. BYU's honor code is important to them; equality in all places, regardless of religious affiliation, is important to these LGBTQ groups. Being relevant in football and other sports is important to the Big 12.

My point is that it is not discrimination, to work for or be a student at BYU you must sign and agree to the terms and conditions of the honor code. You voluntary agree to sign the CONTRACT that is the honor code. Their honor directly reflects their religious beliefs, values, and standards of personal conduct. That is their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. You as a prospective employee or student are free not to sign and seek employment or education elsewhere. Thus there is no discrimination, because if you sign you agree to it. Much like joining the military, you sign the contract, in doing so you sign away certain rights.

But, it is an out right lie to say as this the letter did that students and coaches from other schools would be subject to discrimination, no they aren't and no they won't be. They are and will be allowed on campus, allowed to coach, and play in those athletic events. Visitors to campus as it is PRIVATE property are subject to BYU rules. If a visitor does something that BYU finds offensive, BYU has every right to ask them to leave. But, that is all BYU can do is make the visitor leave their campus (again it's private property).


I am a Liberal not a neo-Progressive. See the videos I shared.

Just as much as BYU has their honor code, many of these institutions have their mission statement which includes equality. If a gay athlete comes on to their campus and wants to hold hands and kiss their partner, this will violate the code of conduct that BYU "reserves the right to remove from their campus".
I fully support any private school to have whatever code they wish, but I also support any conference to decide to not include a school who could make any student athletes feel unwelcomed.

My big rub in all of this is anyone who is acting like what the LGBT movement is wrong in any way. They as well as BYU have the 1st amendment and I applaud the few gay athletes who have stated as an objection that they would not travel to the BYU campus if they are added to the conference.

(08-11-2016 12:34 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  

(08-11-2016 10:57 AM)CornellCoog Wrote:  It's also slightly more than just eyeballs watching that matter. The tv money comes from selling advertisements. Think of your typical college football game and the ads you see... beer, Hooters, more beer, Dr. Pepper (Big 12), etc... not exactly things Mormons buy.

It's why many bowl game organizers pass up the Blue Cougars. Sure, they bring a lot of fans, but they don't spend like other fanbases do.

Not sure thats true, i know what i have to spend with one wife. Cant imagine traveling with 4 or 5

(08-10-2016 07:32 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(08-10-2016 06:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  The honor code itself isn't the issue. Mormon beliefs are not the issue. There are two things that cause BYU an issue:

1. BYU discriminates. All couples are banned from having sex before marriage, but heterosexual couples are allowed to hold hands and kiss on campus, and homosexual couples are not. That is one thing the LGBT groups give as an example. I'm sure there are others.

2. When a co-ed is raped at BYU, officials use the honor code to take action against her for having sex out of wedlock. Supposedly.

1. Private religious school that doesn't believe in homosexuality. Though you and I may disagree with BYU, they have every right to believe this and have an honor code banning things they disagree with. It's not discrimination because attendance is not mandatory, but voluntary. If you are student you AGREE TO THESE STANDARDS. Therefore when you violate said standards and punished it's not discrimination, you knowingly violated the very rules you agreed to in the first place. If you can't follow or agree to their code you are free to attend another school. This a basic concept, you're on private property not a state owned school, the same rules do not apply. This why single gender clubs, private universities, fitness centers are legal. They discriminate against the other gender through exclusion, but as they are a private organization operating on private property they can do this.

2. Citation needed, only one theoretical example can be found. But, was it the rape or the self admitted voluntary drug use before the alleged rape that got her expelled? This is unproven and you can't say she was kick out because of the rape, facts not in evidence. Even the rape is unproven. The only thing that is, is she admitted to voluntary taking drugs.

This could easily be viewed as she wasn't given a pass on the drug use because she was raped. While you and I may not agree with such a ruling, it would still be a valid expulsion and not a discriminatory act. But, because BYU's hands are tied in double knot legally, the details of the review of her honor code violation are a part of her personal file and they can't speak about or release it and they can't speak about pending legal cases because of privacy laws you only have her story. It's not for us to decide, but a court of law.

1. As for legally, I don't know. I think you may be interpreting that wrong, but at any rate, I would take bets that the Big 12 presidents have an issue with it.

2. That's why I used the word "supposedly." Neither of us really knows for sure, but it seems obvious that they did it in that one case, at least, which makes them culpable, and left to their own devices with no scrutiny, would likely continue that practice.

Y'all fukers need to calm down.
1) Stop replying to long posts with your idiotic long rant. It's annoying and ensures no one reads your crap.
2) BYU is always the frontrunner and never gets selected for expansion. Pretty sure this repeating over and over again isn't because of who everyone else is... You gotta tell that kid they might want to look inward after they get picked last every time at recess; might beer their fault.
3) this isn't a defining issue, it's an amplifying issue. It won't likely make the decision for a voter...it will confirm that decision.
4) Stop comparing BYU to ND thinking it's the same thing. It's not. Get over it. Public perception and media coverage of a Catholic institution vice a Mormon institution ain't changing. Is that BS? Probably. Is that going to change? Nope.
The PAC10 choose Utah to expand instead of BYU. Look at those schools, they're respective fan bases and regional and national support, and academic reputation. They choose Utah. That should tell you all you need to know.


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