(08-09-2016 11:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 08:18 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:47 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:08 AM)Realignment Wrote:  I think the A10 can get a good deal. CBS Sports Network will want the inventory and I'm sure ESPN would be willing to pick up a certain amount of games, now NBCSN may get out of the college game all together until the American and Mountain West contracts come up.

Oh the deal will probably be 'good', but in an environment of lower money for athletics in general and college basketball in particular, its likely that tomorrow's 'good' deal might be less than today's 'unsustainable' deal. That isn't a dig on the A-10, but on all basketball products, including the P5.

Non power leagues are getting the shaft when it comes to TV.

The MWC, MAC, AAC have at least some product leverage as G5 conferences with unique markets/timeslots the fill.

There was a point in time where the A10 was in the same tier of quality as the BE in basketball. Back when the BE had WVU, Rutgers, VT, Miami who were not traditional BB programs and the A10 had Xavier, Dayton, Temple, UMass, GW, St. Joes all playing good ball. Late 90's maybe and it was enough for the A10 to earn a 10 million per year deal at one point.

The gap between the BE and the A10 is now so great that the A10 is solidly in the second tier. That is why it is easy to imagine them taking a reduced deal just to keep a good presence on TV. 1 million per year for example.

The A-10 still has star power and is a better conference than in many years when it had Xavier and Temple in it.

Last year the BE had a great year. Two years ago, not so much. Overall, the BE is better.

Uh they had the fourth best RPI that year. I don;t know where you go that idea.

2013-14 Conference RPI Rank

1. B1G
2. Big XII
3. Pac-12
4. Big East
5. ACC
6. A-10
7. SEC
8. AAC

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2014/conferencerpi

2014-15

1. Big XII
2. ACC
3. Big East
4. B1G
5. Pac-12
6. SEC
7. A-10
8. AAC

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2015/conferencerpi

2015-16

1. Big XII
2. ACC
3. Pac-12
4. Big East
5. B1G
6. ACC
7. A-10
8. AAC

(08-10-2016 12:29 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 11:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 08:18 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 10:47 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 01:08 AM)Realignment Wrote:  I think the A10 can get a good deal. CBS Sports Network will want the inventory and I'm sure ESPN would be willing to pick up a certain amount of games, now NBCSN may get out of the college game all together until the American and Mountain West contracts come up.

Oh the deal will probably be 'good', but in an environment of lower money for athletics in general and college basketball in particular, its likely that tomorrow's 'good' deal might be less than today's 'unsustainable' deal. That isn't a dig on the A-10, but on all basketball products, including the P5.

Non power leagues are getting the shaft when it comes to TV.

The MWC, MAC, AAC have at least some product leverage as G5 conferences with unique markets/timeslots the fill.

There was a point in time where the A10 was in the same tier of quality as the BE in basketball. Back when the BE had WVU, Rutgers, VT, Miami who were not traditional BB programs and the A10 had Xavier, Dayton, Temple, UMass, GW, St. Joes all playing good ball. Late 90's maybe and it was enough for the A10 to earn a 10 million per year deal at one point.

The gap between the BE and the A10 is now so great that the A10 is solidly in the second tier. That is why it is easy to imagine them taking a reduced deal just to keep a good presence on TV. 1 million per year for example.

The A-10 still has star power and is a better conference than in many years when it had Xavier and Temple in it.

Last year the BE had a great year. Two years ago, not so much. Overall, the BE is better.

Uh they had the fourth best RPI that year. I don;t know where you go that idea.

2013-14 Conference RPI Rank

1. B1G
2. Big XII
3. Pac-12
4. Big East
5. ACC
6. A-10
7. SEC
8. AAC

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2014/conferencerpi

2014-15

1. Big XII
2. ACC
3. Big East
4. B1G
5. Pac-12
6. SEC
7. A-10
8. AAC

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2015/conferencerpi

2015-16

1. Big XII
2. ACC
3. Pac-12
4. Big East
5. B1G
6. ACC
7. A-10
8. AAC

I was looking at NCAA tournament performance.

The A-10 should find a way to dump all that deadweight at the bottom. Duquesne, Fordham and La Salle (save one fluke run) have basically contributed nothing since I started following college basketball. Stop them from leaching and that's more games between teams that actually contribute something.

Even St. Bonaventure, who has done more than the other three combined, is somewhat deadweight.

(08-09-2016 08:41 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-09-2016 04:56 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Basketball does not draw the tv audience like football does. The money maker is football.

It's a factor of rank.

1) P5
2) Power hoops (BE)
3) G5 conferences
4) A10, MVC, WCC
5) FCS conferences

The ceiling right now for a non-FBS basketball conference is a deal where there is some national exposure during the regular season and conference tourney with a drop of money.

FCS conferences have it worst as they are almost completely resigned to regional TV.

I think Boise State and BYU's football and tv contract is above Power Hoops conferences. Some G5 football schools do better than some power hoops as well for viewership. Some are just in the wrong conferences. Even Grambling State and Southern have the annual NBC football game that pays them more as well.

The Atlantic 10 is a very solid conference. I would love to see a challenge set up between the American and the Atlantic 10. You could have: Cincinnati vs. Dayton, Connecticut vs. Rhode Island, Temple vs. UMass, Memphis vs. VCU and many more.

(08-09-2016 10:55 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I agree. Why do so many other people in this thread think college basketball money will be smaller?

Possibilities:
1. IF there is a sports-rights-bubble and it pops, everybody's going to take a hit at contract time. Or--
2. They live in parts of the country where CBB is nowhere on the radar, and it's natural to generalize from your own experience.

(08-10-2016 01:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The A-10 should find a way to dump all that deadweight at the bottom. Duquesne, Fordham and La Salle (save one fluke run) have basically contributed nothing since I started following college basketball. Stop them from leaching and that's more games between teams that actually contribute something.

Even St. Bonaventure, who has done more than the other three combined, is somewhat deadweight.

That’s never going to happen. The A10 is a conference with a lot of history and the programs described as “dead weight” have enough votes to never let that happen.

The only way that conference is changing is if Dayton or St Louis get a call up by the Big East, or VCU gets a call from the AAC.

The A10 TV deal I believe is 5 million per year, 350K per school, the way the contracts have gone lately with no football to add value IMO that number is in jeopardy of taking a hit.

(08-10-2016 09:27 AM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  

(08-10-2016 01:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The A-10 should find a way to dump all that deadweight at the bottom. Duquesne, Fordham and La Salle (save one fluke run) have basically contributed nothing since I started following college basketball. Stop them from leaching and that's more games between teams that actually contribute something.

Even St. Bonaventure, who has done more than the other three combined, is somewhat deadweight.

That’s never going to happen. The A10 is a conference with a lot of history and the programs described as “dead weight” have enough votes to never let that happen.

The only way that conference is changing is if Dayton or St Louis get a call up by the Big East, or VCU gets a call from the AAC.

The A10 TV deal I believe is 5 million per year, 350K per school, the way the contracts have gone lately with no football to add value IMO that number is in jeopardy of taking a hit.

Most people feel that Fordham's A-10 membership has been a total fail. With Duquesne, it was also a fail to let them back in (they left for a year in the 1990s but returned when LaSalle, Duquesne, Xavier, and Dayton came in).

George Mason might also have been a troubled add too. Although, I'm pretty confident that they'll be back at some point.

I think the only reason Fordham remains in the conference is that teams like Duquesne, St Bona, and LaSalle are worried about the precedent that ejecting a team for poor performance would engender. I'd be glad if they traded out Fordham for Manhattan or Hofstra. I'd gladly trade Fordham (a FCS team) with Hofstra with the CAA.

So long as the Big East decides not to raid, and the AAC doesn't want basketball onlies (and possibly even then - A-10 schools would rightly be scared of joining a football focused conference as a basketball only), then the A-10 is a terminal conference. With the possible exception of UMass.

I believe that all conferences will end up with lower payouts. Including the A-10.

It's incredibly rare for a college athletic conference to kick anyone out.

There was Temple, kicked out of the Big East Football Conference for being, at the time, completely terrible about everything involving their football program (attendance, resources, competitiveness).

There were the C-USA non-IA schools (SLU, UNC-Charlotte) kicked out as CUSA 2.0 rebuilt as an all-sports no-hybrids conference. Did UNCC and SLU have the option to start football and stay in CUSA?

It doesn't count when a conference is dissolved out from under you (VCU, stranded when the CUSA founders left the Metro Conference) (Rice, SMU, TCU left behind when the Big 8 became the Big 12).

Can we think of other examples of conferences saying "You suck, buh-bye"?

(08-10-2016 06:49 AM)a cat but also a bear Wrote:  The Atlantic 10 is a very solid conference. I would love to see a challenge set up between the American and the Atlantic 10. You could have: Cincinnati vs. Dayton, Connecticut vs. Rhode Island, Temple vs. UMass, Memphis vs. VCU and many more.

Already have an home and home with Temple, starting at the Mullins Nov 17th.

(08-10-2016 09:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  It's incredibly rare for a college athletic conference to kick anyone out.

There was Temple, kicked out of the Big East Football Conference for being, at the time, completely terrible about everything involving their football program (attendance, resources, competitiveness).

There were the C-USA non-IA schools (SLU, UNC-Charlotte) kicked out as CUSA 2.0 rebuilt as an all-sports no-hybrids conference. Did UNCC and SLU have the option to start football and stay in CUSA?

It doesn't count when a conference is dissolved out from under you (VCU, stranded when the CUSA founders left the Metro Conference) (Rice, SMU, TCU left behind when the Big 8 became the Big 12).

Can we think of other examples of conferences saying "You suck, buh-bye"?

UTPA from the Sun Belt qualifies.

(08-10-2016 09:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  It's incredibly rare for a college athletic conference to kick anyone out.

There was Temple, kicked out of the Big East Football Conference for being, at the time, completely terrible about everything involving their football program (attendance, resources, competitiveness).

There were the C-USA non-IA schools (SLU, UNC-Charlotte) kicked out as CUSA 2.0 rebuilt as an all-sports no-hybrids conference. Did UNCC and SLU have the option to start football and stay in CUSA?

It doesn't count when a conference is dissolved out from under you (VCU, stranded when the CUSA founders left the Metro Conference) (Rice, SMU, TCU left behind when the Big 8 became the Big 12).

Can we think of other examples of conferences saying "You suck, buh-bye"?

The SWC/Big 12? Also Chicago State, though they officially "left" the Summit.

Charlotte and St. Louis weren't kicked out of C-USA, at least not technically. It was just done in an unspoken way, similar to Chicago State but with not nearly as much pressure. UNCC and SLU could have stayed if they really wanted to. CSU could not.