(08-07-2016 07:14 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I only used Cincinnati as an example. Seriously, there are more people within the I-275 beltway around this city than in that entire state. And Cincinnati is not a huge city. I have no idea about how their academics are or the other factors. Just pointing out that New Mexico is not a market that makes anyone salivate.

You aren't paying attention to the numbers. It is a larger market than Louisville, and larger than two markets with pro teams (Memphis and NOLA).

They aren't earth shaking but if you want to go west they are quite logical. There aren't a lot of "top team in the state" options open to Big XII and fewer that make geographic sense.

UL was not brought into the ACC for its market.

Top team in a state that is mostly unpopulated is like being the most available straight guy at an Indigo Girls concert. Its nice but is probably not going to get you laid.

I was just in New Mexico 10 days ago. I loved my brief visit to the Land of Enchantment. It is, in many spots, a beautiful state.

It is also a small (population just barely 2MM) and fairly poor (46th out of 50 in terms of per capita income) state.

They're just not a top-tier candidate to get into the Power 5. The top of the next tier --- in the form of the Mountain West Conference --- is the perfect and fully appropriate spot for the Lobos.

(08-07-2016 09:03 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  I was just in New Mexico 10 days ago. I loved my brief visit to the Land of Enchantment. It is, in many spots, a beautiful state.

It is also a small (population just barely 2MM) and fairly poor (46th out of 50 in terms of per capita income) state.

They're just not a top-tier candidate to get into the Power 5. The top of the next tier --- in the form of the Mountain West Conference --- is the perfect and fully appropriate spot for the Lobos.

I agree. I love the state and all that it offers but it's tiny and offers nothing on the market side. As said earlier, if the state booms then sure it'll be elevated to a true expansion contender but even then I don't see how that state ever booms. It lacks the natural resources or tech incentives to truly create a boom.

What UNM has going for it institutionally is its size. Their candidacy has been discussed elsewhere during these lulls, and the one component where they blow away their competitors is its enrollment. I think they'd be the second or third largest school in the Big XII if they were admitted. The upside to an inconsistent athletic department (read: really bad football) in a poor, small state is that were they tapped, the potential for a big fanbase is right there. Location, other than being in the middle of nowhere, isn't too bad for all in that conference, either (except for WVU, of course).

It is a poor state but New Mexico generates $31.1 million from sources other than fees, university support, and government transfers.

That's third best among the G5 publics.

(08-08-2016 07:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  What UNM has going for it institutionally is its size. Their candidacy has been discussed elsewhere during these lulls, and the one component where they blow away their competitors is its enrollment. I think they'd be the second or third largest school in the Big XII if they were admitted. The upside to an inconsistent athletic department (read: really bad football) in a poor, small state is that were they tapped, the potential for a big fanbase is right there. Location, other than being in the middle of nowhere, isn't too bad for all in that conference, either (except for WVU, of course).

Who are NM's competitors? It's @ 27,000 total enrollment is over 17,000 less than Cincinnati's, 15,000 less than Houston and close to 40,000 less than UCF's if I recall correctly.

(08-08-2016 09:12 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 07:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  What UNM has going for it institutionally is its size. Their candidacy has been discussed elsewhere during these lulls, and the one component where they blow away their competitors is its enrollment. I think they'd be the second or third largest school in the Big XII if they were admitted. The upside to an inconsistent athletic department (read: really bad football) in a poor, small state is that were they tapped, the potential for a big fanbase is right there. Location, other than being in the middle of nowhere, isn't too bad for all in that conference, either (except for WVU, of course).

Who are NM's competitors? It's @ 27,000 total enrollment is over 17,000 less than Cincinnati's, 15,000 less than Houston and close to 40,000 less than UCF's if I recall correctly.

There are definitely bigger schools out there, especially east of the current conference footprint. There's not much bigger out west, though, and so relatively close to the current footprint other than UH. Yeah, UCF is huge...it's also far away and not a geographic rival.

I don't want to "go there" with the flagship thing, but UNM's got that going for it, too. Institutionally, it resembles the other Big XII schools more so than others (not all, but others).

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if the Big XII didn't just look at UConn, CSU, and UNM for those reasons, with the private schools getting some play because of their perceived prestige. Being a non-flagship public school is tough in the annuls of the P5 in D1. There aren't that many of them in the top strata.

Big 12 originally looked into BYU and New Mexico when it formed. The reason was they wanted to secure the Mountain time zone markets for the Big 12 (Denver, Salt Lake City, and Albuquerque), match the SEC population wise and strength basketball (Pit and Marriott Center - two big arenas, great attendance). The Big 14 plan was this:

North
BYU
Colorado
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

South
Baylor
New Mexico
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

(08-08-2016 10:45 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Big 12 originally looked into BYU and New Mexico when it formed. The reason was they wanted to secure the Mountain time zone markets for the Big 12 (Denver, Salt Lake City, and Albuquerque), match the SEC population wise and strength basketball (Pit and Marriott Center - two big arenas, great attendance). The Big 14 plan was this:

North
BYU
Colorado
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

South
Baylor
New Mexico
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

Yes. I've heard that former AD Rudy Davalos (Houston fans know him well) wasn't interested in the Big 12 for NM as crazy as that sounds now, and was one of the pioneers in the WAC 16 idea. Davalos was AD at Houston before becoming New Mexico AD in 92. That tells you how times have changed. 20 years ago the WAC was a voice in college football with BYU, Utah, TCU etc as members...and today they are barely hanging on as a non-football conference with Grand Canyon U & Chicago St as members. Crazy....
Cheers!

(08-07-2016 05:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  New Mexico is third among the public G5 schools in self-generated revenue.
The most popular team in the state, greater population than Nebraska (not much of an achievement), TV market just ahead of Louisville, Memphis and New Orleans.
Academically same ballpark as Texas Tech and West Virginia and arguably Kansas State.

I'm sure someone out there deems it significant that New Mexico and Texas Tech were in the Border Conference together 60 years ago. :)

Ahh...The Ol Border Conference with Texas Tech, New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona St, UTEP & NM St. Throw in 2 more and you got the revived 8 team "New Border Conference" Don't know if Houston and TCU want to join them in this endeavor but with all the crazy ideas going around, why not an idea that has like minded colleges who fit well geophrapically playing sports together? Too crazy, I know.
Cheers!

(08-08-2016 11:36 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-07-2016 05:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  New Mexico is third among the public G5 schools in self-generated revenue.
The most popular team in the state, greater population than Nebraska (not much of an achievement), TV market just ahead of Louisville, Memphis and New Orleans.
Academically same ballpark as Texas Tech and West Virginia and arguably Kansas State.

I'm sure someone out there deems it significant that New Mexico and Texas Tech were in the Border Conference together 60 years ago. :)

Ahh...The Ol Border Conference with Texas Tech, New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona St, UTEP & NM St. Throw in 2 more and you got the revived 8 team "New Border Conference" Don't know if Houston and TCU want to join them in this endeavor but with all the crazy ideas going around, why not an idea that has like minded colleges who fit well geophrapically playing sports together? Too crazy, I know.
Cheers!

This is the David bat beacon signal with West Texas A&M posts coming up.

(08-08-2016 11:47 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 11:36 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-07-2016 05:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  New Mexico is third among the public G5 schools in self-generated revenue.
The most popular team in the state, greater population than Nebraska (not much of an achievement), TV market just ahead of Louisville, Memphis and New Orleans.
Academically same ballpark as Texas Tech and West Virginia and arguably Kansas State.

I'm sure someone out there deems it significant that New Mexico and Texas Tech were in the Border Conference together 60 years ago. :)

Ahh...The Ol Border Conference with Texas Tech, New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona St, UTEP & NM St. Throw in 2 more and you got the revived 8 team "New Border Conference" Don't know if Houston and TCU want to join them in this endeavor but with all the crazy ideas going around, why not an idea that has like minded colleges who fit well geophrapically playing sports together? Too crazy, I know.
Cheers!

This is the David bat beacon signal with West Texas A&M posts coming up.

combine then with Eastern New Mexico and Oklahoma Panhandle State and you have a pretty large MSO there!

Don't know if this matters but has the Big 12 ever had a school with a city name in it?
Texas
Texas Tech
Texas Christian
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Kansas
Kansas St
Iowa St
West Virginia
Nebraska (former)
Colorado (former)
Texas A&M (former)
Missouri (former)
Colorado St (proposed)
New Mexico (proposed)
Connecticut (proposed)
So Memphis, change your name to Tennessee St, Cincy become Ohio Tech and Houston...Texas A&T? If those names are available take them now and you are in!
Cheers!

(08-08-2016 11:47 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 11:36 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-07-2016 05:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  New Mexico is third among the public G5 schools in self-generated revenue.
The most popular team in the state, greater population than Nebraska (not much of an achievement), TV market just ahead of Louisville, Memphis and New Orleans.
Academically same ballpark as Texas Tech and West Virginia and arguably Kansas State.

I'm sure someone out there deems it significant that New Mexico and Texas Tech were in the Border Conference together 60 years ago. :)

Ahh...The Ol Border Conference with Texas Tech, New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona St, UTEP & NM St. Throw in 2 more and you got the revived 8 team "New Border Conference" Don't know if Houston and TCU want to join them in this endeavor but with all the crazy ideas going around, why not an idea that has like minded colleges who fit well geophrapically playing sports together? Too crazy, I know.
Cheers!

This is the David bat beacon signal with West Texas A&M posts coming up.

I thought I'd beat DavidSt to the punch!
Cheers!

(08-08-2016 11:36 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-07-2016 05:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  New Mexico is third among the public G5 schools in self-generated revenue.
The most popular team in the state, greater population than Nebraska (not much of an achievement), TV market just ahead of Louisville, Memphis and New Orleans.
Academically same ballpark as Texas Tech and West Virginia and arguably Kansas State.

I'm sure someone out there deems it significant that New Mexico and Texas Tech were in the Border Conference together 60 years ago. :)

Ahh...The Ol Border Conference with Texas Tech, New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona St, UTEP & NM St. Throw in 2 more and you got the revived 8 team "New Border Conference" Don't know if Houston and TCU want to join them in this endeavor but with all the crazy ideas going around, why not an idea that has like minded colleges who fit well geophrapically playing sports together? Too crazy, I know.
Cheers!

Don't forget NAU!! We were in the Border Conference :)

(08-08-2016 12:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Don't forget NAU!! We were in the Border Conference :)

Hardin-Simmons also! The Border Conference extended all the way from Flagstaff/Tempe to Abilene.

(08-08-2016 01:56 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 12:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Don't forget NAU!! We were in the Border Conference :)

Hardin-Simmons also! The Border Conference extended all the way from Flagstaff/Tempe to Abilene.

Forgot about NAU and Hardin-Simmons. BTW, NAU still plays games regularly vs Arizona, Arizona St and New Mexico in football and basketball right? One summer as a kid I went to an Arizona St wrestling camp that was held at NAU. We stayed in the dorms at NAU. Flagstaff is absolutely beautiful!
What's the skinny on Hardin Simmons these days?
Cheers!

(08-08-2016 05:47 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 01:56 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  

(08-08-2016 12:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Don't forget NAU!! We were in the Border Conference :)

Hardin-Simmons also! The Border Conference extended all the way from Flagstaff/Tempe to Abilene.

Forgot about NAU and Hardin-Simmons. BTW, NAU still plays games regularly vs Arizona, Arizona St and New Mexico in football and basketball right? One summer as a kid I went to an Arizona St wrestling camp that was held at NAU. We stayed in the dorms at NAU. Flagstaff is absolutely beautiful!
What's the skinny on Hardin Simmons these days?
Cheers!

Not as much as we used to. Haven't played UNM in a while. Still every year or so to UA/ASU.


Hardin-Simmons is tiny - only 2K students (but wealthy). They are in DIII